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Subject: Super easy pitching? rss

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william hill
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I like baseball, but the finer points on the rules have always escaped me.
I’m just playing the basic game and the rules/concepts governing starter/relievers boggles my mind (not to mention how a pinch hitter is utilized during the switch!)
In fact, im not even sure why a starter doesnt just pitch the whole game?
(this may only apply when playing a season? Im only interested in playing nothing more than a World Series..)
I realize that there needs to be a pitching limit of some kind, otherwise you would always just use your A-rated pitcher solely, every game.

Any suggestions on a standardized, easy approach that maintains a minuimum of realism?, something I could apply in each game? i.e. “At the top of the 7th, a pinch hitter must bat for the starter, then he will be replaced by a reliever who then bats and pitches the remainder of the game. That starter and reliever may not be used again in the “series”..

ideas for me?
thx
 
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Timothy Sullivan
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Hi, William.

The APBA Major League Baseball Master Game has a fatigue system -- each pitcher has a fatigue rating (Q1, Q2, etc.) that will cause his pitching rating to drop after some number of innings.

Back in the 1980s, before we switched from APBA Pro Baseballto APBA Major League Baseball Master Game, we'd reduce the pitcher's pitching rating after the 7th inning. Of course that was a different era. The 6th inning might be a more realistic choice today.

I realize that this isn't exactly what you're looking for, but hopefully it's some help.

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Tim
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Craig H
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Hi William, There really isn't any quantitative method for showing how a pitcher gets tired over the course of a game. So the rules in both the basic game and master game try to emulate that fatigue.

Sometimes a pitcher has a shutout or even a no hitter, and sometimes a pitcher can't hit the side of a barn in the first inning. That's where the rule about Earned runs (or lack of them)over a specific period of innings comes into play to degrade or upgrade the pitchers rating to emulate the change in performance from his normal grade.

The reliever rules try to show how a fresh arm and different look the batter sees changes the game, a relief pitcher comes into a situation and is usually amped up for the first batter. The batters have been used to several At Bats from the starter and have possibly figured him out so the reliever changes that up.

Making a pitching change is also one of those decisions that makes APBA fun! You are the manager! Do you stick with your Ace starter because your gut tells you to even though his arm is a wet noodle in the 7th inning, or do you bring in a fresh arm to get out a jam that could possibly lose the game. Fun stuff!
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Bill Eldard
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retrosoldier wrote:
Any suggestions on a standardized, easy approach that maintains a minuimum of realism?, something I could apply in each game? i.e. “At the top of the 7th, a pinch hitter must bat for the starter, then he will be replaced by a reliever who then bats and pitches the remainder of the game. That starter and reliever may not be used again in the “series”..

The rule might work for NL-home games in the World Series, but not AL-home games, which use the designated hitter rule (pitchers rarely bat).

What Timothy and Craig have posted is great information. There is also an innovation in the Master Game that makes pitching decisions more important. Batters are rated for hitting against left-handed and right-handed pitchers, and these ratings are used to add or subtract from the pitcher's rating. So, you may get a left-handed hitter who loses significant ability against lefties, but has a slight advantage against righties -- that's a good reason to bring in the left-handed reliever.

APBA also has a new fatigue rating for starting pitchers consisting of a number in parentheses after the routing pitcher grade info {ex. (23)]. As I recall, this is the number of batters faced before the pitcher's grade decreases. I think this can be applied to both the basic and Master games.
 
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william hill
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wow, thx so much!
I appreciate the need for these complexities in that managerial decisions are what attracts players to the game.
For my rather shallow level of depth, I will look for some type of compromise between everyones suggestions.
I do like Tim’s basic-game approach of lowering the grade of a starter each inning after 6th. Then, if I feel like putting in reliever with a higher grade (the only reason for doing so, right?) I could reduce his grade for EACH inning pitched (relievers tire out quicker, right?)
Since I am playing no more than a 3, 5 or 7 game series, I could just say that any pitcher that pitched at all, can’t pitch again in the series (in this way, limiting my choices).
As I don't understand the “pinch hitter” concept in relation to relief, I could just put the reliever in the batting line up?

OR just ignore the whole relief thing and force a starter to pitch the whole game, reducing grades after 6th! Harsh!

thank you
 
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Bill Eldard
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retrosoldier wrote:
. . . Then, if I feel like putting in reliever with a higher grade (the only reason for doing so, right?) I could reduce his grade for EACH inning pitched (relievers tire out quicker, right?) . . .

That's what's great about the Master Game. I might want to bring in a reliever who is a lower grade than the starter, but (a) holds runners on first better, or (b) give up fewer homers 9the G, H, L, and M ratings), or (c) is more likely to strikeout the batter (X,Y, and K ratings).

retrosoldier wrote:
Since I am playing no more than a 3, 5 or 7 game series, I could just say that any pitcher that pitched at all, can’t pitch again in the series (in this way, limiting my choices).

That could work. And pull out the starter if he's surrendered 5 earned runs in any two consecutive innings.

retrosoldier wrote:
As I don't understand the “pinch hitter” concept in relation to relief, I could just put the reliever in the batting line up?

The pinch hitter -- hitting for the pitcher coming out of the game -- takes the spot in the batting order held by the pitcher. That means that when the relief pitcher comes in to start the next inning, he replaces the pinch hitter in the batting order.

As you get the hang of that, you can get more creative (as baseball managers do). Since the pinch hitter now has a spot in the batting order, you can keep the PH in the game by assigning him a defensive position, and place the relief pitcher in the batting order spot vacated by the player being replaced in the field by the former PH.

For example, Michael A. Taylor pinch hits for pitcher Max Scherzer in the bottom of the 7th inning. Scherzer comes out of the game, and after hitting for Scherzer, Taylor stays in the game as the centerfielder batting in Scherzer's old spot (ninth). Adam Eaton -- who had been in the number 1 spot in the batting order and playing centerfield -- comes out of the game and is replaced in the batting order by Sean Doolittle, the new pitcher. This is often referred to as a 'double switch,' and is rather routine in Major League Baseball.
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william hill
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THANK YOU!
I get it. And pinch hitting!
Ah! in the master game relief truly is significant and fine-tuned for managerial decisions; basic game then is only Grade-influenced, so much less so.
Im understanding that since I am only playing short-series, I will by default be using the “best pitchers” up before I really have to be too concerned about using “less talented” pitchers in the bull pen.
Playing a whole season would be overwhelming to me (pitcher “rest” is a whole other complexity!), but I realize season-play is probably the main intention of APBA, and thus the source of some of my troubles.

thanks again for everyone's great help,

EDIT:
I finally played. (a “world series” 2013 Boston vs St. Louis...St. Louis up one game)
The fatigue rules in Basic turned to be clear cut to me; If a starting pitcher gives up 5 runs in any bundle of three concsecutive innings, he drops a grade (and will continue to). Replace him with a reliever when you want (interestingly, there are no fatigue rules for relievers, so they are invincible to downgrading).
I will look into required “rest” rules,
thx!
 
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william hill
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my last question (to my last post) is finally;
As there are no fatigue rules for relievers, why wouldnt I just pull a C grade starter out in the 3rd inning lets say, and put in a A grade reliever? (i dont see anything about limiting the number of innings or games that a reliever can pitch), i.e relievers can practically become starters.

These are the ambiguities Im encountering, and it is really hard to find clear rules governing this on line. The temptation to abuse the pitching options feels dishonest!
That’s why Ive been hoping to decide on a rigid set of standards governing starter/reliever usage (even if it is not a rigid science).
The predicament is similar to APBAs cautioning of not “over-using” sac bunt and hit and run; how to govern that?

 
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Timothy Sullivan
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In my answer, I'm assuming that you're playing solo for fun (as opposed to putting together a competitive league with friends).

I think you should start by contemplating your source of enjoyment while playing a sports simulation solo. Different people enjoy different aspects. I enjoy learning about the players. Some people enjoy creating an alternative history. Others are experimenting with "what-if" scenarios. There's not right or wrong answer, but it might help you sort what you're after.

For most of us, using players unrealistically would ruin the fun. For me, I wouldn't learn much about the players, for example, if I did odd things like play players out of position, try to steal second every time it's empty, or pull the C starting pitchers after three innings. Exploiting the fact that I could do these things would lessen my enjoyment.

For people creating an alternate history, they just want to "watch" the season unfold. They might root for their favorite team, but they're more interested in telling a story. They might have a fond "memory" of the time that a particular player hit a 15th inning HR to win a game. Again, doing odd things would just mess with the story in their head and lessen the fun.

Most of us don't feel the need to tie our own hands for the more obvious cases because we're not tempted to make a decision that 99% of real-life MLB managers wouldn't. Pulling a C starter in the 3rd inning, just because I can, would fall into this category. There's no ambiguity, per se -- the game's rules allow you to do it. It's just that the game isn't detailed enough to capture the reasons that a real MLB manager wouldn't do it (such as the fact that he's hoping to get the C pitcher through a few more innings to give his bullpen ace the day off so that he's available tomorrow).

For the less obvious cases, such as "Do I pinch hit in the top of the 6th for my pitcher when I'm up by a run?" I might look at various (real-life) stats to get a feel for it, or I just might flip a coin.

Is part of the issue that you don't feel all that confident about what "is" realistic. (I don't want to put words into your mouth.) So you're searching for "rules of thumb" that you can follow?

Happy gaming!

Tim


 
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Bill Eldard
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retrosoldier wrote:
wow, thx so much!
I appreciate the need for these complexities in that managerial decisions are what attracts players to the game.
For my rather shallow level of depth, I will look for some type of compromise between everyones suggestions.
I do like Tim’s basic-game approach of lowering the grade of a starter each inning after 6th. Then, if I feel like putting in reliever with a higher grade (the only reason for doing so, right?) I could reduce his grade for EACH inning pitched (relievers tire out quicker, right?)
Since I am playing no more than a 3, 5 or 7 game series, I could just say that any pitcher that pitched at all, can’t pitch again in the series (in this way, limiting my choices).
As I don't understand the “pinch hitter” concept in relation to relief, I could just put the reliever in the batting line up?

OR just ignore the whole relief thing and force a starter to pitch the whole game, reducing grades after 6th! Harsh!

thank you

In the original APBA Major League Baseball, there were no fatigue or injury rules. Pitchers were reduced one grade for giving up 5 earned runs in any 3 consecutive innings, but this was barely scratching the surface of pitching realism.

Later, injury "J" ratings were introduced for all players, but this only impacted the potential number of games players might play in a whole season.

The current fatigue rules (Q ratings, etc.) are quite better than the old days and affect all pitchers. The Master Game pitching rules, with ratings for lefty/righty match-ups and home runs, make the pitching decisions even more important. It's the main reason that I haven't gone back to the Basic Game since I began playing Master Game.
 
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