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Subject: Unarmed black man gunned down by police....20 shots fired. rss

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mortego
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What the actual fuck!?!!!

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/22/us/sacramento-police-shooting...
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Andre
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Not sure that "fearing for their safety" is enough reason to shoot someone 20 times. Putting oneself in harms way potentially, is what a cop signs up for, it's part and parcel of the job. It should not give free license to fire and kill someone because they 'fear for their safety'.

I have also heard through other sources that the police muted their microphones on their body cams, which goes totally against the grain of transparency, almost like they knew they may have done something wrong, and wanted to 'discuss' it in private.

What this really translates to is, "I saw a black man with a gun, and killed him before he could kill me". But with no gun present on or near the black man, it is extremely difficult to come anywhere close to justifying their excessive behavior.

That said, they will likely only be dismissed from the force, worse case, or slapped on the wrist. I would expect lawsuits to follow, and years of legal battles on this one.
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Andrew Laws
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If anyone wants to understand how cops can continually shoot unarmed people and then claim that they 'feared for their safety', you need to listen to the radiolab podcast on the supreme court decision that unwittingly paved the way for a licence to kill.

http://www.radiolab.org/story/radiolab-presents-more-perfect...

Essentially the legal basis stems from 'would a reasonable person feel threatened' in this situation. However the legal window of 'the situation' has been narrowed down to the split-second before the cops open fire. They could be facing Chuckles the Clown and his hilarious plant squirter at a children's party and if Chuckles reaches inside his sleeve, BAM! that's when the clock on the situation starts.

Nothing that came before. Except of course the fact that the cop has in his mind the call from dispatch, the sketchy reports of a clown with a knife by a confused neighbour, and their in-built coulrophobia that makes them jumpy around anyone with a wig and face paint and balloons.

All of those biases are firing, none of it counts, legally speaking. All that matters is; did Chuckles reach into his sleeve? String of hankies or no, the cops are in the clear.

Particularly disheartening is that cops receive training from their unions on the legal basis of their licence to kill, and what to say after a shooting.
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This is in another thread here. However, also let's consider the crime. Someone was reportedly breaking car windows to try and steal stuff. In response, the cops in Sacramento sent cops to rush into people's yards with a police helicopter overhead. Overreaction much?

Even if you're a law and order type, is this really what you want? Police that overreact and could stumble in your yard and shoot your kids by mistake? Because other than skin color, this could be your life.
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J J
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killerjoe1962 wrote:
What the actual fuck!?!!!


Quite so.

Why the actual fuck do body-cams have a mute option?

"Interesting" video. I've seen a bunch of films about useless, idiotic jerks without an ounce of integrity, intelligence, capability, or self-awareness (think pretty much any modern American gross-out film, or Seth Rogan's entire output), and those deliberately over-the-top incompetent arseholes seem like consummate professionals and experts compared to the murder-thug-enforcers in this .
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Rachel Simmons
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Sue_G wrote:
However, also let's consider the crime. Someone was reportedly breaking car windows to try and steal stuff.

I’ve had my car broken into (twice) and had stuff stolen from it. I sure didn’t like it, but I wouldn’t want anybody killed over it. Escalating things to that degree is crazy.
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bowen wrote:
Sue_G wrote:
However, also let's consider the crime. Someone was reportedly breaking car windows to try and steal stuff.

I’ve had my car broken into (twice) and had stuff stolen from it. I sure didn’t like it, but I wouldn’t want anybody killed over it. Escalating things to that degree is crazy.



I'm baffled as to why they needed this kind of response over a non-violent crime. I mean, yeah, I've also experienced robberies, but there's just no way this was appropriate in terms of a response. And it's an overall pattern. Drunk guy in hotel room - bam, dead. Child in a park with a toy - bam, dead. Guy with busted tail light - bam, dead.

Even where I've been physically assaulted (and I have, once fairly seriously), I don't favor this kind of response.
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Trey Chambers
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abadolato01 wrote:


Putting oneself in harms way potentially, is what a cop signs up for, it's part and parcel of the job. It should not give free license to fire and kill someone because they 'fear for their safety'.


Oh, my sweet summer child.
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mortego
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Law enforcement is a "professional" job, right?

EPROFESSIONALW
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Andre
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killerjoe1962 wrote:
Law enforcement is a "professional" job, right?

EPROFESSIONALW


Yes, and that implies exercising due diligence in assessing a situation, not REACTING out of fear, because you THINK someone MAY be pointing a gun at you.

Maybe if they were not barreling thru a neighborhood full speed, with helicopter backup, this would not have happened. All to chase a guy that might have been breaking car windows. Perspective people! This was total overkill, by zealous cops, whose adrenaline was flowing in the chase.
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mortego
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abadolato01 wrote:
killerjoe1962 wrote:
Law enforcement is a "professional" job, right?

EPROFESSIONALW


Yes, and that implies exercising due diligence in assessing a situation, not REACTING out of fear, because you THINK someone MAY be pointing a gun at you.

Maybe if they were not barreling thru a neighborhood full speed, with helicopter backup, this would not have happened. All to chase a guy that might have been breaking car windows. Perspective people! This was total overkill, by zealous cops, whose adrenaline was flowing in the chase.


I am TRYING my best to be fair and NOT outright say those murderers WANTED to kill a black man.
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The Apostle Green
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Even in a situation where shooting a suspect could be justified, would it be proper to just squeeze off a shitload of shots like this?
 
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rico
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theapostlegreen wrote:
Even in a situation where shooting a suspect could be justified, would it be proper to just squeeze off a shitload of shots like this?

I think when a cop decides to shoot, then they should maximize their DPS. The problem isn't the number of shots fired, it's the fact that they thought they needed to shoot at all.
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Trent Boardgamer
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Sue_G wrote:
bowen wrote:
Sue_G wrote:
However, also let's consider the crime. Someone was reportedly breaking car windows to try and steal stuff.

I’ve had my car broken into (twice) and had stuff stolen from it. I sure didn’t like it, but I wouldn’t want anybody killed over it. Escalating things to that degree is crazy.



I'm baffled as to why they needed this kind of response over a non-violent crime. I mean, yeah, I've also experienced robberies, but there's just no way this was appropriate in terms of a response. And it's an overall pattern. Drunk guy in hotel room - bam, dead. Child in a park with a toy - bam, dead. Guy with busted tail light - bam, dead.

Even where I've been physically assaulted (and I have, once fairly seriously), I don't favor this kind of response.


Yes, but in fairness those busted tail lights out there can be pretty bloody terrifying. It's easy to criticize others until the first time you're staring at the back of a car with only one tail light flashing back at you, at which point you understand the fear for yourself.
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Mac Mcleod
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Bearhug78 wrote:
Sue_G wrote:
bowen wrote:
Sue_G wrote:
However, also let's consider the crime. Someone was reportedly breaking car windows to try and steal stuff.

I’ve had my car broken into (twice) and had stuff stolen from it. I sure didn’t like it, but I wouldn’t want anybody killed over it. Escalating things to that degree is crazy.



I'm baffled as to why they needed this kind of response over a non-violent crime. I mean, yeah, I've also experienced robberies, but there's just no way this was appropriate in terms of a response. And it's an overall pattern. Drunk guy in hotel room - bam, dead. Child in a park with a toy - bam, dead. Guy with busted tail light - bam, dead.

Even where I've been physically assaulted (and I have, once fairly seriously), I don't favor this kind of response.


Yes, but in fairness those busted tail lights out there can be pretty bloody terrifying. It's easy to criticize others until the first time you're staring at the back of a car with only one tail light flashing back at you, at which point you understand the fear for yourself.




Aye! I mean, this is worse than "Insidious" or "Saw".
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Trent Boardgamer
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maxo-texas wrote:
Bearhug78 wrote:
Sue_G wrote:
bowen wrote:
Sue_G wrote:
However, also let's consider the crime. Someone was reportedly breaking car windows to try and steal stuff.

I’ve had my car broken into (twice) and had stuff stolen from it. I sure didn’t like it, but I wouldn’t want anybody killed over it. Escalating things to that degree is crazy.



I'm baffled as to why they needed this kind of response over a non-violent crime. I mean, yeah, I've also experienced robberies, but there's just no way this was appropriate in terms of a response. And it's an overall pattern. Drunk guy in hotel room - bam, dead. Child in a park with a toy - bam, dead. Guy with busted tail light - bam, dead.

Even where I've been physically assaulted (and I have, once fairly seriously), I don't favor this kind of response.


Yes, but in fairness those busted tail lights out there can be pretty bloody terrifying. It's easy to criticize others until the first time you're staring at the back of a car with only one tail light flashing back at you, at which point you understand the fear for yourself.




Aye! I mean, this is worse than "Insidious" or "Saw".


My sweet lord!

Why people, why do we allow this to happen!


Humour aside, it is sad to see the amount of Police Shootings in the US. I believe in access to firearms (but with regulation and tight regulation at that).

Being a Police Officer is often a thankless job and one that expects people to put their lives on the line for others. Stories like this are purely tragic, but one of the major issues is that gun culture in the US does threaten the safety of officers there more than in many other Western Societies (It's easy for a lot of us to forget that 90% of a police officers day is generally spent dealing with the dregs of society, not the average decent person).

It's a sad and complex problem and my sympathies certainly go out to people that are shot by police officers undeservedly, however I think sometimes it's easy to overlook that their job is dangerous and in a country where there is always a possibility of a perpetrator having a fire arm this isn't a problem that can easily go away. I certainly wouldn't want to see more officer deaths because they all become too concerned to fire their weapon when really required.

Anyway, I'm not saying some idiots don't still manage to become Police Officers, but when the shit does hit the fan I hope most people appreciate that they really want them there then.
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Don't do crime and dumb crap. Then they be alive. Simple as that.
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The play's the thing ...
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crowr66 wrote:
Don't do crime and dumb crap. Then they be alive. Simple as that.


What an insightful comment. Glad geniuses like you are here to set the record straight. shake
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Vic Lineal
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crowr66 wrote:
Don't do crime and dumb crap. Then they be alive. Simple as that.


Are you a racist? Join the Police. Kill black people with impunity. Have your back covered by the courts. If it goes really wrong, then be forced to retire but still enjoy your pension as a thank you package for keeping black people in line. Simple as that.
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Jon M
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crowr66 wrote:
Don't do crime and dumb crap. Then they be alive. Simple as that.


I presume being Australian is therefore a crime, or is it reporting a crime that is the crime or is it wearing pajamas out of doors?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond
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Trent Boardgamer
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Jon_1066 wrote:
crowr66 wrote:
Don't do crime and dumb crap. Then they be alive. Simple as that.


I presume being Australian is therefore a crime, or is it reporting a crime that is the crime or is it wearing pajamas out of doors?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond


Well, wearing pajamas out of doors???

You did have to ask the hard question.

And I would mention, we do watch enough US TV in Australia to know you never snitch in the US.

Jokes aside, very sad what happened there.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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crowr66 wrote:
Don't do crime and dumb crap. Then they be alive. Simple as that.

Or be black and riding in a car.

Or be black and asleep on a park bench.

Or be brown and eating corn chips.

Or be black and--well, I was going to say "you get the picture," but I won't be surprised if you choose not to.
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Peter Karis
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spoon wrote:
theapostlegreen wrote:
Even in a situation where shooting a suspect could be justified, would it be proper to just squeeze off a shitload of shots like this?

I think when a cop decides to shoot, then they should maximize their DPS. The problem isn't the number of shots fired, it's the fact that they thought they needed to shoot at all.

There exist also alternative approaches. In Finland, for example, officers are trained to fire (preferably) a single round, observe the effect, and only repeat the process if the desired result is not achieved. In the US, I believe, there is no iteration in the OODA loop. Once the use of a firearm has apparently been justified, officers are almost expected to fire for maximum effect. Why the difference, I can't really say. Could simply be because of the level of required training to become a police officer.
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Nothing I said was racist. That line of thought is common sense. When asked to put your hands up. Do it don't go grasping for things or run away. Your just making it more dangerous for everyone involved. if you did nothing wrong.
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Eric Tama
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crowr66 wrote:
Nothing I said was racist. That line of thought is common sense. When asked to put your hands up. Do it don't go grasping for things or run away. Your just making it more dangerous for everyone involved. if you did nothing wrong.


Yeah, because everyone understands English:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sureshbhai_Patel

or can hear:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_John_T._Williams
http://www.koco.com/article/community-rallies-for-justice-af...

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