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Conflict of Heroes: Eastern Front – Solo Expansion» Forums » General

Subject: AI opportunity actions rss

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Dustin
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Hi lads,

i am playing with solo expansion for first time the first of the solo scenarios.

I moved my smg grp one hex west from starting position. My actual plan is to move to the building to get cover and get out of sdkfz 251 field of fire. Spent check is negative so i decide move one hex further and get into the building and out of the field of fire of sdkfz. thats where i thought i could also go in close combat onto sdkfz. But why should the apcs gunner just sit there and let em come, since i expect him doing his duty and being observant and giving lead in the heath when enemy pop up.
Since i couldnt find any rule while skimming i decided to give him a opportunity action and make spentcheck for him.

Is there some rule for that case that i passed out?

Cheers!

 
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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Dustmann wrote:
Hi lads,

i am playing with solo expansion for first time the first of the solo scenarios.

I moved my smg grp one hex west from starting position. My actual plan is to move to the building to get cover and get out of sdkfz 251 field of fire. Spent check is negative so i decide move one hex further and get into the building and out of the field of fire of sdkfz. thats where i thought i could also go in close combat onto sdkfz. But why should the apcs gunner just sit there and let em come, since i expect him doing his duty and being observant and giving lead in the heath when enemy pop up.
Since i couldnt find any rule while skimming i decided to give him a opportunity action and make spentcheck for him.

Is there some rule for that case that i passed out?

Cheers!



CoH is different from other games in that each unit takes a single action at a time rather than all of them. Just like a real player might not take a shot, the might not or might based on the card.
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Rom Brown
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What was the AI Order Card drawn after your spent check ... did it effect a different AI or somesuch?
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Blake Christensen
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Dustmann wrote:
Spent check is negative so i decide move one hex further and get into the building and out of the field of fire of sdkfz.

It sounds like you didn't give the AI a chance to move after your smg unit. If so, the AI gets a turn after each of your units moves. The spent check is just to decide if the unit is flipped to the spent side.
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Ben Bosmans
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blake1776 wrote:
Dustmann wrote:
Spent check is negative so i decide move one hex further and get into the building and out of the field of fire of sdkfz.

It sounds like you didn't give the AI a chance to move after your smg unit. If so, the AI gets a turn after each of your units moves. The spent check is just to decide if the unit is flipped to the spent side.


I think this explains it.

In CoH you can do exactly ONE thing and than the opposite can do ONE action.

So you move ONE hex - you check if the unit ( or group of units ) is spent and then it is the other sides turn. Etc...

Even for a simple facing change it counts as one action and it is the other side’s turn.

Actually this creates the basics for a great AI bot as the actions are so short the AI will never make long chains of bad decisions. why ? Because the AI cards evaluate :
1. The general board situation.
2. The state of the human units (spent or hit etc...)
3. The state of the AI troops.

... with EACH small step taken....

For solo play this is of course ideal as you create a long rather logical string of very small steps.

The system is almost simultanious while the AI constantly re evaluates the changing situations on a very short action notice.

The longer it takes a solo AI bot to make a move, the greater the risk it will do something stupid before rectifying it. In CoH the steps are so small and the evaluation process so fast/often, you create a more human like reaction module.

Lots of people who don’t play this have no clue how good such an AI bot can be.

I see LOTS of comments by non players like why has Infantry a facing? Well since the actions are practically simultanious, it is rather logical you need a few split seconds to see a deployed unit in cover change its covering fire.

Or why a vehicule that has a 360° arc of fire has a +2 Action Point penalty to fire outside of its initial arc etc...

—— Important —-

The first 2 firefights are just learning scenarios, the real smart AI play starts with scenarios 4 and up ... Why ? Because with the above system the player is confronted with a much more involved firefight with more units and the firefights as such are no longer decided by single combat results.

I would advice anyone after playing 2 or 3 times the first scenario to play firefight 7 btw: you will never have seen an AI bot so agressively as in that scenario.

Firefight 7 is the pinnacle of AI botting in boardgames.

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Russ Williams
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Yep, both sides alternate making moves. I recommend that you first learn the base game rules before trying the solo expansion.
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Dustin
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Thanks all!

Somehow i thought i got to take actions with a unit until its spent.

 
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Brett Schaller
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Good explanation by Ben. One minor detail - some units (vehicles) have bonus movement and can, depending on terrain, move more than one hex in their move.
 
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mr. sorsurus
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if i may add,

this happen to me last week. for ff1, on board, there is only 1 german sdkfz 251 and 2 soviet rifles '41.

german 251 is hit and is short range to 1 soviet rifle '41 that is also hit.

but, during AI turn, order card tells sdkfz 251 to disengage when i think the best action would be to attack the rifles to kill it.

finally, soviet won but i really think, if the tank managed to kill the rifle, then it will have better chance to win over the second rifle.

the second rifle was about 2 hex away from the skdfz.

for me, it was so dramatic. like when u are watching the tank keep attacking the rifle and suddenly it decides to change plan and move away.
 
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Willem Boersma
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Dustmann wrote:
Thanks all!

Somehow i thought i got to take actions with a unit until its spent.



In the two player game you do, but also there, don't forget to let your opponent take their turn (-;

The solo expansion is different in the sense that each player turn you can activate a different unit OR the same one you just used if it didn't get spent because of "failing" the spent check. There's talk of this becoming the two-player standard as well in future itterations of the series.

I really like this system as it seems more realistic to me (and less predictable as well). Most of the action would be simultanenous on the battlefield. It wasn't (usually) like you'd send in one unit, then the next, then again another one etc.

Note that there's one action/ bonus card that lets you take two consecutive actions (so without your opponent or AI intervening). This is especially handy when moving into an enemy hex (CC) and then getting to attack first.

Hope this helps!
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Ben Bosmans
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sorsurus wrote:
if i may add,

this happen to me last week. for ff1, on board, there is only 1 german sdkfz 251 and 2 soviet rifles '41.

german 251 is hit and is short range to 1 soviet rifle '41 that is also hit.

but, during AI turn, order card tells sdkfz 251 to disengage when i think the best action would be to attack the rifles to kill it.

finally, soviet won but i really think, if the tank managed to kill the rifle, then it will have better chance to win over the second rifle.

the second rifle was about 2 hex away from the skdfz.

for me, it was so dramatic. like when u are watching the tank keep attacking the rifle and suddenly it decides to change plan and move away.


If the sdkfz was adjacent to the soviet rifle, the second instruction on the AI card is always executed.

Of the 55 AI cards only 3 mention disengage, so there is a very small chance a unit in such a position would disengage to preserve it... Mostly it just fires into the adjacent hex (or it pivots AND fires or it rallies in rare cases).

I think this reflects pretty well the behaviour of a human player, certainly with the Armed unit in this case that is harder to hit when not adjacent.

Also: the RICHNESS of this game can be seen throughout all scenarios, but certainly with the latter firefigths (scenarios 4-10) where the number of units gives an eternal possibility of play throughs and the human player is constantly confronted with changing (small steps) tactical nuances.

As such rule 42 should NEVER be used for the AI. Let the system play as such, you'll be beaten much more than you like. As Gunter said to me recently, the rule 42 was not included to interfere with the AI actions, but to feel easy with the AI card language, to not worry too much if you applied the right instruction line on the card.

tldr: this AI bot system is still at a very lonely height in solo play.

I wonder if Gunter EIckert will be able to top it in the upcoming Guadalcanal solo expansion. I guess that design will be a real challenge.
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Danick Cloutier
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St-Fabien
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Dont forget that with a disengage order the AI can try to flank your unit. It's easy for the Half-track to outflank your unit.
 
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