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Subject: That one time I say "Good job, McConnell. rss

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Carl Parsons
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http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/380287-mcconnel...

He has announced a bill that would define marijuana as an agricultural product thereby removing it from the controlled substance categorization.

At first glance, I can't see anything wrong with this.

Edit. My bad, this is for hemp not marijuana. I still think this is a good thing and I'll still say good job.
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Daniel Kearns
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That would be a huge positive move.
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Heather K
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Tax and regulate it like cigarettes and the states will be making money rather than spending it to fight it.
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Andre
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As long as you can't roll it, or put it in a pipe and smoke it, not sure I see the problem with it either. The trickier part comes when you try to legalize what you can roll, and smoke.

I am of the opinion that marijuana should be leglaized, and taxed heavily, similar to cigarettes. It should be cheap only for medicinal use, and under very limited circumstances. Let them smoke it if they want, but let them pay a price for it. No different than cigarettes.
 
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Bill Cook
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Why do you want to tax the hell out of people who want to enjoy marijuana?
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Andre
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EMBison wrote:
Why do you want to tax the hell out of people who want to enjoy marijuana?


Because it kills brain cells. And ultimately, the government has to pay for the dumbing down of America, just like they have to pay for the lung cancer and emphysema, of smokers.

Edit - Laughs, this is the reason people might claim, although it is highly debatable.

Although I am not sure I'd want someone behind the wheel, or using power machinery, after smoking a few bones.
 
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Cris Whetstone
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Republicans finally trying to reach out to a group wider than older, white males?

EDIT: I was fooled by the OP and did not realize this was about hemp.
 
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Andre
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WetRock wrote:
Republicans finally trying to reach out to a group wider than older, white males?


More likely McConnell catering to his constituency, that is apparently invested in the production of hemp. Laughs, no one in Congress does anything without having ulterior motives, that are usually less than noble.
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Bill Cook
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If you want to punish people who want to enjoy pot because it’s bad for them, you should also want to reward them for all the reasons pot is good for them. Better yet, just stay out of it.

Also, reading a bit more, senator Turtle just wants to legalize the industrial strains, he is still strongly against legalizing the kind people enjoy. And he’s even against letting states decide.

Party of States rights and smaller government my ass.
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Andre
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EMBison wrote:
If you want to punish people who want to enjoy pot because it’s bad for them, you should also want to reward them for all the reasons pot is good for them. Better yet, just stay out of it.

Also, reading a bit more, senator Turtle just wants to legalize the industrial strains, he is still strongly against legalizing the kind people enjoy. And he’s even against letting states decide.

Party of States rights and smaller government my ass.


Yes this bill has nothing to do with the type of cannabis that makes you high. My comment was only meant to indicate that there might be considerable more difficulty, in passing legislation regarding the cannabis that can make you high. I don't think that legislation would be as clear cut.

But I am curious, other than for medicinal purposes, what are the positive "benefits" of pot, in your mind?
 
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Cris Whetstone
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batman wrote:
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/380287-mcconnel...

He has announced a bill that would define marijuana as an agricultural product thereby removing it from the controlled substance categorization.

At first glance, I can't see anything wrong with this.


Oh. You might want to change "marijuana" to "hemp" in your post. It's an important distinction.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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The illegality of hemp has always been doubling down on stupid.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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I wonder if it is the decline of paper that has made it "safe" for the GOP to consider legalizing hemp.
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Bill Cook
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abadolato01 wrote:
EMBison wrote:
If you want to punish people who want to enjoy pot because it’s bad for them, you should also want to reward them for all the reasons pot is good for them. Better yet, just stay out of it.

Also, reading a bit more, senator Turtle just wants to legalize the industrial strains, he is still strongly against legalizing the kind people enjoy. And he’s even against letting states decide.

Party of States rights and smaller government my ass.


Yes this bill has nothing to do with the type of cannabis that makes you high. My comment was only meant to indicate that there might be considerable more difficulty, in passing legislation regarding the cannabis that can make you high. I don't think that legislation would be as clear cut.

But I am curious, other than for medicinal purposes, what are the positive "benefits" of pot, in your mind?


Medical benefits are the good thing. And I’m including “making people feel good” as a medical benefit
 
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Andre
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EMBison wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
EMBison wrote:
If you want to punish people who want to enjoy pot because it’s bad for them, you should also want to reward them for all the reasons pot is good for them. Better yet, just stay out of it.

Also, reading a bit more, senator Turtle just wants to legalize the industrial strains, he is still strongly against legalizing the kind people enjoy. And he’s even against letting states decide.

Party of States rights and smaller government my ass.


Yes this bill has nothing to do with the type of cannabis that makes you high. My comment was only meant to indicate that there might be considerable more difficulty, in passing legislation regarding the cannabis that can make you high. I don't think that legislation would be as clear cut.

But I am curious, other than for medicinal purposes, what are the positive "benefits" of pot, in your mind?


Medical benefits are the good thing. And I’m including “making people feel good” as a medical benefit


Laughs, an extremely loose interpretation, I have no problems with it, but lawmakers might. The feel good properties are linked to the fact that, like alcohol, it is a psychoactive drug.

Taken from http://www.medicaldaily.com/marijuana-vs-alcohol-effects-psy...

At the end of the day, both are considered to be psychoactive drugs that affect mental processes and cognition when taken or administered, WHO reported.

I suspect that, even if legalized, and that is a big if, it would still likely be regulated, similar to alcohol.
 
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G Rowls
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Why do you want to tax the hell out of people who want to enjoy marijuana?

because they tax the hell out of any other product that gives pleasure.

except religion because thats exempt from rapture tax.

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Bill Cook
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What is medicine if not something that makes people feel better
 
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Mac Mcleod
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Summary: There is no data that ordinary to moderately heavy use of marijuana below substance abuse levels destroys brain cells. And this has been known for close to two decades.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20030701/heavy-mari...

Quote:
July 1, 2003 -- Long-term and even daily marijuana use doesn't appear to cause permanent brain damage, adding to evidence that it can be a safe and effective treatment for a wide range of diseases, say researchers.

The researchers found only a "very small" impairment in memory and learning among long-term marijuana users. Otherwise, scores on thinking tests were similar to those who don't smoke marijuana, according to a new analysis of 15 previous studies.

In those studies, some 700 regular marijuana users were compared with 484 non-users on various aspects of brain function -- including reaction time, language and motor skills, reasoning ability, memory, and the ability to learn new information.

Surprising Finding

"We were somewhat surprised by our finding, especially since there's been a controversy for some years on whether long-term cannabis use causes brain damage," says lead researcher and psychiatrist Igor Grant, MD.

"I suppose we expected to see some differences in people who were heavy users, but in fact the differences were very minimal."


https://herb.co/marijuana/news/cannabis-really-kill-brain-ce...

Quote:
There’s a lot of debate about whether or not IQ is an appropriate measure of intelligence and cognitive ability. However, cannabis critics often claim that the herb lowers IQ, and therefore causes brain damage. This fear stems from a New Zealand study published back in 2012.

The study looked at 1,037 individuals from age 13 to age 38. They found that cannabis consumers showed an 8 point drop in IQ by the age of 38. There are a few issues with this study, though. The number of people who showed this decline was quite small, only 38 people out of 1,037.

These same people also used significantly more herb than the average person. Specifically, these people were classified as having trouble with cannabis abuse.

Other criticisms of this study suggest that this study failed to rule out other factors that cause IQ decline. These include family life and whether or not they dropped out of school.

Quote:

Don’t freak out just yet, though. A couple of more recent studies counter this claim. Research published in December of 2015 compared the IQs of identical twins. In their twin pairings, they picked couples where one twin had either used or abstained from cannabis over the past 10 years.

After controlling for environmental factors, the research team found no measurable link between cannabis use and decreased IQ. Cannabis consuming twins did lose about four IQ points over time, but their non-using identical twins also experienced the same drop in IQ. So, it’s likely that something else, not the cannabis, caused these changes.


---

Once taxes exceed a certain level, tax evasion starts. We've seen it with alcohol and with cigarettes for decades. Marijuana is *much* easier to grow than tobacco and *much* safer than making your own spirits and about as safe as making your own wine. I'm not sure how much of an issue it is with beer making but I don't see a lot of articles about people being poisoned by homemade beer.

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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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Interesting, Mac. I'd have to look into it more. I've heard the opposite for young heavy users of pot.
 
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Andre
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maxo-texas wrote:
Summary: There is no data that ordinary to moderately heavy use of marijuana below substance abuse levels destroys brain cells. And this has been known for close to two decades.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20030701/heavy-mari...

Quote:
July 1, 2003 -- Long-term and even daily marijuana use doesn't appear to cause permanent brain damage, adding to evidence that it can be a safe and effective treatment for a wide range of diseases, say researchers.

The researchers found only a "very small" impairment in memory and learning among long-term marijuana users. Otherwise, scores on thinking tests were similar to those who don't smoke marijuana, according to a new analysis of 15 previous studies.

In those studies, some 700 regular marijuana users were compared with 484 non-users on various aspects of brain function -- including reaction time, language and motor skills, reasoning ability, memory, and the ability to learn new information.

Surprising Finding

"We were somewhat surprised by our finding, especially since there's been a controversy for some years on whether long-term cannabis use causes brain damage," says lead researcher and psychiatrist Igor Grant, MD.

"I suppose we expected to see some differences in people who were heavy users, but in fact the differences were very minimal."


https://herb.co/marijuana/news/cannabis-really-kill-brain-ce...

Quote:
There’s a lot of debate about whether or not IQ is an appropriate measure of intelligence and cognitive ability. However, cannabis critics often claim that the herb lowers IQ, and therefore causes brain damage. This fear stems from a New Zealand study published back in 2012.

The study looked at 1,037 individuals from age 13 to age 38. They found that cannabis consumers showed an 8 point drop in IQ by the age of 38. There are a few issues with this study, though. The number of people who showed this decline was quite small, only 38 people out of 1,037.

These same people also used significantly more herb than the average person. Specifically, these people were classified as having trouble with cannabis abuse.

Other criticisms of this study suggest that this study failed to rule out other factors that cause IQ decline. These include family life and whether or not they dropped out of school.

Quote:

Don’t freak out just yet, though. A couple of more recent studies counter this claim. Research published in December of 2015 compared the IQs of identical twins. In their twin pairings, they picked couples where one twin had either used or abstained from cannabis over the past 10 years.

After controlling for environmental factors, the research team found no measurable link between cannabis use and decreased IQ. Cannabis consuming twins did lose about four IQ points over time, but their non-using identical twins also experienced the same drop in IQ. So, it’s likely that something else, not the cannabis, caused these changes.


---

Once taxes exceed a certain level, tax evasion starts. We've seen it with alcohol and with cigarettes for decades. Marijuana is *much* easier to grow than tobacco and *much* safer than making your own spirits and about as safe as making your own wine. I'm not sure how much of an issue it is with beer making but I don't see a lot of articles about people being poisoned by homemade beer.



I've seen these reports, but I don't think they address the issue that pot is a psychoactive drug, and has many of the same issues as alcohol, when it comes to operation of machinery, vehicles, etc. I would not feel comfortable, knowing that someone driving down the highway next to me, or in the other direction, is behind the wheel, after having smoked a few. Although it can be made legal, I don't think it should be treated as simply a hobby or recreation. It's a hobby/recreation that could get someone killed, that hasn't even been smoking it.
 
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Bill Cook
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abadolato01 wrote:
I've seen these reports, but I don't think they address the issue that pot is a psychoactive drug, and has many of the same issues as alcohol, when it comes to operation of machinery, vehicles, etc. I would not feel comfortable, knowing that someone driving down the highway next to me, or in the other direction, is behind the wheel, after having smoked a few. Although it can be made legal, I don't think it should be treated as simply a hobby or recreation. It's a hobby/recreation that could get someone killed, that hasn't even been smoking it.


I think everybody agrees that it should be illegal to drive under the influence of marijuana. But it should be treated like other things that can distract a driver and cause deaths.

I don't see you calling to tax the hell out of cell phones for instance.
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einsteinidahosu wrote:
Interesting, Mac. I'd have to look into it more. I've heard the opposite for young heavy users of pot.


There is evidence if you start young and you use it heavily there can be an effect. I think it was about 38 out of 1000+ in the new zealand study.

The twin study found similar declines in both people however so it's possible those 38 had something else going on.

There is also the increased risk of psychosis but it's also possible some people are self medicating.

It's been tough to study pot in the past.

I hope they legalize it in or close around texas. Booze is bad for my heart.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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EMBison wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
I've seen these reports, but I don't think they address the issue that pot is a psychoactive drug, and has many of the same issues as alcohol, when it comes to operation of machinery, vehicles, etc. I would not feel comfortable, knowing that someone driving down the highway next to me, or in the other direction, is behind the wheel, after having smoked a few. Although it can be made legal, I don't think it should be treated as simply a hobby or recreation. It's a hobby/recreation that could get someone killed, that hasn't even been smoking it.


I think everybody agrees that it should be illegal to drive under the influence of marijuana. But it should be treated like other things that can distract a driver and cause deaths.

I don't see you calling to tax the hell out of cell phones for instance.


And tax takeout food, and makeup, and arguing with your S.O. while driving, and ...
 
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Mac Mcleod
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abadolato01 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Summary: There is no data that ordinary to moderately heavy use of marijuana below substance abuse levels destroys brain cells. And this has been known for close to two decades.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20030701/heavy-mari...

Quote:
July 1, 2003 -- Long-term and even daily marijuana use doesn't appear to cause permanent brain damage, adding to evidence that it can be a safe and effective treatment for a wide range of diseases, say researchers.

The researchers found only a "very small" impairment in memory and learning among long-term marijuana users. Otherwise, scores on thinking tests were similar to those who don't smoke marijuana, according to a new analysis of 15 previous studies.

In those studies, some 700 regular marijuana users were compared with 484 non-users on various aspects of brain function -- including reaction time, language and motor skills, reasoning ability, memory, and the ability to learn new information.

Surprising Finding

"We were somewhat surprised by our finding, especially since there's been a controversy for some years on whether long-term cannabis use causes brain damage," says lead researcher and psychiatrist Igor Grant, MD.

"I suppose we expected to see some differences in people who were heavy users, but in fact the differences were very minimal."


https://herb.co/marijuana/news/cannabis-really-kill-brain-ce...

Quote:
There’s a lot of debate about whether or not IQ is an appropriate measure of intelligence and cognitive ability. However, cannabis critics often claim that the herb lowers IQ, and therefore causes brain damage. This fear stems from a New Zealand study published back in 2012.

The study looked at 1,037 individuals from age 13 to age 38. They found that cannabis consumers showed an 8 point drop in IQ by the age of 38. There are a few issues with this study, though. The number of people who showed this decline was quite small, only 38 people out of 1,037.

These same people also used significantly more herb than the average person. Specifically, these people were classified as having trouble with cannabis abuse.

Other criticisms of this study suggest that this study failed to rule out other factors that cause IQ decline. These include family life and whether or not they dropped out of school.

Quote:

Don’t freak out just yet, though. A couple of more recent studies counter this claim. Research published in December of 2015 compared the IQs of identical twins. In their twin pairings, they picked couples where one twin had either used or abstained from cannabis over the past 10 years.

After controlling for environmental factors, the research team found no measurable link between cannabis use and decreased IQ. Cannabis consuming twins did lose about four IQ points over time, but their non-using identical twins also experienced the same drop in IQ. So, it’s likely that something else, not the cannabis, caused these changes.


---

Once taxes exceed a certain level, tax evasion starts. We've seen it with alcohol and with cigarettes for decades. Marijuana is *much* easier to grow than tobacco and *much* safer than making your own spirits and about as safe as making your own wine. I'm not sure how much of an issue it is with beer making but I don't see a lot of articles about people being poisoned by homemade beer.



I've seen these reports, but I don't think they address the issue that pot is a psychoactive drug, and has many of the same issues as alcohol, when it comes to operation of machinery, vehicles, etc. I would not feel comfortable, knowing that someone driving down the highway next to me, or in the other direction, is behind the wheel, after having smoked a few. Although it can be made legal, I don't think it should be treated as simply a hobby or recreation. It's a hobby/recreation that could get someone killed, that hasn't even been smoking it.


This should ease your mind some...

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2017.3...

Quote:
Results. Pre–recreational marijuana legalization annual changes in motor vehicle crash fatality rates for Washington and Colorado were similar to those for the control states. Post–recreational marijuana legalization changes in motor vehicle crash fatality rates for Washington and Colorado also did not significantly differ from those for the control states (adjusted difference-in-differences coefficient = +0.2 fatalities/billion vehicle miles traveled; 95% confidence interval = −0.4, +0.9).

Conclusions. Three years after recreational marijuana legalization, changes in motor vehicle crash fatality rates for Washington and Colorado were not statistically different from those in similar states without recreational marijuana legalization. Future studies over a longer time remain warranted.


I have read that is a study that showed slight increases (barely outside of noise but statistically significant) in automobile accidents but not what kind (did they hit a curb or a car, for example) but I don't have a link for it handy.

Alcohol is *much* *much* worse and degrades performance and control faster. And when we tried to prohibit Alcohol it did not go very well at all.

I can buy a 1.5 liter bottle of Taaka for $10.50. Or Popov for $14 (it is much better for the slight increase in price). That doesn't seem to be too extremely taxed to me. So I guess if that is the level you are talking about (25%-35%), no big deal.

Taxes on alcohol are mostly taxes on the poor and middle class. Very regressive.
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Bill Cook
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maxo-texas wrote:
I can buy a 1.5 liter bottle of Taaka for $10.50. Or Popov for $14 (it is much better for the slight increase in price).


Gah! I'm no booze snob. Heck, I make fun of people who order top-shelf vodka, especially in a mixed drink. But Popov? No. Just no.

That next level up: Skyy, Pinnacle, Smirnoff etc. is so much better for just a little more.

And, really, unless you are downing the booze right and left (not that I have a problem with that) you deserve some good stuff. A handle of, say, Tito's is $30 around here. Aren't you worth it?
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