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Pandemic Legacy: Season 2» Forums » General

Subject: [SPOILER] Discovering regions in "wrong" order rss

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Son Moekel
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Heya guys!

We've had a blast with the game thus far and did really well so far (won the first 6 months on first try) with a little luck, and a lot of tracking / planning.

That being said, we chose to discover South America first, then Africa , the eastern regions, and lastly Europe, as the flavor texts suggested great things to discover in those regions (new havens and laboratories).

We wanted to discover Europe next, however the game told us "if you didn't explore Europe yet, here get if for free, but kill Frankfurt and rip apart this game-winning card". And that just felt super shitty. There was no indication given we would need to discover Europe more quickly "or else". It was already a drawback, because we discovered flight routes really late, which made things waaaay harder already.

Also the "XCom" effect of discovering the eastern regions early and making things so much harder on ourselves by having to deal with the hollow men early.

The game did a really great job at giving hints for where to go and what cities to explore to find havens and laboratories, but an absolutely abysmal job of screwing you over, if you happen to discover regions in the "wrong" order, too early, or too late.

Did that happen to you guys too, or were you supremely lucky and started with Europe?

Thoughts welcome!
-Son
 
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Márton Molnár
Hungary
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There are some story hints about which region to recon next (Hollow Men going somewhere etc.), which usually say something like "you really should go exploring South America now".

But the clearest indication of the "right" recon order is their card requirements: for example, you can recon North America right away, but you need 5 different yellow cards to recon Africa, which you can only have after connecting cities in North/South America etc...

...which makes me wonder, how did you have the 4 different black cards required for reconning the "eastern regions" (by which I assume you meant the Cairo recon) without connecting Moscow from Europe?
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Son Moekel
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From Africa.

And yeah, that's why we were really proud of ourselves, because we managed to do something super hard and challenging.

And just from knowing "they are in the east", seeing them shouldn't trigger them all of a sudden showing up all over the world. (Should be triggered by month, not discovery status.)

Achieving something super challenging, and having it "rewarded" with 3 different drawbacks (hollow men, late to flights, losing Frankfurt & card), just feels bad. :/
 
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aaron Haycraft

Louisville
Kentucky
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We weren't able to recon the area from the black cards (forgot what region that is) until the very end of July. For month we were hearing about
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Hollow Men, and we were all, "well, where the hell are they?" and spent forever fearing them. We had even already done the 'Listening in on the Hollow Men' objective and we had both labs discovered already for like 3 months.
Then in August, we didn't get a single
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Hollow Man card because of how we handled the deck and the Radar towers. Basically,Hollow Men did not affect us at all until October, and that was just because they were there during set up...then we got the shelters, they were not nearly as scary.
Basically what I'm saying is reconning out of 'order' can sometimes work to your benifit.
 
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
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It did prompt you though, the story each month goes "oh the Hollow Men were spotted in X, we probably should do something about it". They're telegraphing the next "correct" Recon pretty heavily.
 
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Son Moekel
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XDarkAngelX wrote:
It did prompt you though, the story each month goes "oh the Hollow Men were spotted in X, we probably should do something about it". They're telegraphing the next "correct" Recon pretty heavily.


Well not really. It always said they come from the east or something, so we wanted more input on them before we actually thought have to face them in month X. So we went there, and it screwed us.
 
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michael ray
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We also reconned Europe late, I don't remember ever seeing a hint to go recon there.

There was the hint to go to south america, and to then go east. east of south america is Africa, so we did that next.

We only did Europe to help us get enough black cards for the Middle East.

So we also didn't have the flight power for a few months longer than most people, and yes, it would have helped us.
 
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Ronald Tin
Hong Kong
Hong Kong
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We also recon in the wrong order. We built permanent supply centres in the 3 Europian and African locations. We also got the upgrade allowing one fewer card.

We recon out of Cairo in May, immediately regret it... then London and Lagos in June.

 
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Tony Williams
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Whilst having some sympathy for the OP.....I also think you could have guessed when the game was going to 'give' you each region, and reacted accordingly.

Even if you don't scratch off the "If you haven't opened....." cards, you can pretty much work out what they're going to be from the doors mentioned.

At the beginning of February, the game gave you North America
Beginning of March it was the South America hurry up.
Beginning of April, it gave you South America
Beginning of May, it gave you the Pacific Haven

Kind of stands to reason that the next easiest one is coming up next....and given a) the number of blue cards you've likely got in your deck at this point and b) the fact that it's only four cards, it seems pretty logical that it would be Europe

We used that same logic to deduce that we had to complete the Middle East search in July (we had some bad luck in earlier months with black cards) and planned accordingly
(of course that turned out to be lucky because it meant we didn't have the Hollow Men for long before we had tools to deal with them)

Now of course trashing Frankfurt is a pretty harsh penalty (and one I didn't know about), but I don't think it was impossible to work out that there was going to be some penalty.

Whilst Season 2 does give you more freedom to do things when you want.....the game still has to keep things moving at a certain rate, else the end of the game would be impossible for some.
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michael ray
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hokuto_su wrote:
We also recon in the wrong order. We built permanent supply centres in the 3 Europian and African locations. We also got the upgrade allowing one fewer card.

We recon out of Cairo in May, immediately regret it... then London and Lagos in June.



Can you can recon Cairo before either London or Lagos? There aren't enough unique black cards in the initial board layout. I guess the right upgrade might let you sneak thru with only 3...

EDIT:Math fail
 
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Jeremy Lennert
United States
California
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Cairo recon requires 4 unique black cards. To do it, you need at least ONE of the following:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
- connect Moscow (revealed by doing recon from London)
- connect Antananarivo (revealed by doing recon from Lagos; connecting it also requires the Chart Sea Lane action from the end of the first game in March)
- the Outrider character upgrade (revealed by doing recon from São Paulo)
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David Ogren
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I agree with the posters so far. Although one thing I'll add is that the hollow men are not nearly as bad as they seem at first. Sure, they are a giant pain in the behind, but they do not cause incidents. And incidents lose games. We recon'd Cairo in May, which seemed really good, and the results seemed like a punishment. But, in retrospect, it meant that losing was a lot less likely. Sure the hollow men got in our way, and hurt population, but incidents became a lot less common and that meant we had a lot less pressure to win immediately or lose.
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Jack F
United States
Ohio
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SonMoekel wrote:
We wanted to discover Europe next, however the game told us "if you didn't explore Europe yet, here get if for free, but kill Frankfurt and rip apart this game-winning card". And that just felt super shitty.


For the record, (and I guess this is kind of a spoiler, but not really so I'm not going to spoiler tag it), this is one of the biggest penalties you get for not doing something on time, and the reason they do it is because opening Europe also gives you the biggest boon: the ability to fly between havens and supply centers. To that end, I'm sure the designers felt like if you hadn't earned that region by reconning it, you had to get a fairly large slap on the wrist.

The only region we didn't recon in time was Africa, which lost us a fairly significant Unrationed Event, but otherwise we felt like the time limits weren't overly strict and it was pretty obvious to us which order to go in. We even got in a recon report that the Hollow Men were moving into Africa, so it was absolutely our fault for not going in sooner.

Most of the havens were given to us before we found them naturally, but there wasn't any penalty for that (other that not having those havens earlier, which isn't bad).
 
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Son Moekel
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In the end we still won Jan-Jun in the first try, so everything is good.

Still, I would have preferred that the game avoids the "xcom effect" (the moment you see them they come swarming you, pro-activity and scouting being punished) and give more freedom in the order of discovering things (we already made it harder on ourselves by following the the prime incentives first, and delaying Europe).

Thanks for your input, everyone!
-Son
 
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Ronald Tin
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Antistone wrote:
Cairo recon requires 4 unique black cards. To do it, you need at least ONE of the following:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
- connect Moscow (revealed by doing recon from London)
- connect Antananarivo (revealed by doing recon from Lagos; connecting it also requires the Chart Sea Lane action from the end of the first game in March)
- the Outrider character upgrade (revealed by doing recon from São Paulo)
In March, we were so worried about the extra epidemic cards that we voted unanimously to buy this upgrade.

Still didn’t know if it is the right decision, but there is no going back. Hopefully it will help us get extra upgrades by connecting to new labs and havens.
 
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Graeme Edgeler
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molnarm wrote:
...which makes me wonder, how did you have the 4 different black cards required for reconning the "eastern regions" (by which I assume you meant the Cairo recon) without connecting Moscow from Europe?


We did South America first, in the first game, it was forever until we had the cards for the North America recon that would end the game, and someone had the cards for South America, so why not?

We got the:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
recon with one less card upgrade


after our first attempt at February.

Reconned Europe in the second half of February, and Middle East in March. Kinda regretted it, I think.

Took a while to do Africa. I do wonder if anyone has reconned Middle East in January (it would be possible in the second attempt with the right upgrade from the first.
 
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Tony Williams
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quadparty wrote:


Took a while to do Africa. I do wonder if anyone has reconned Middle East in January (it would be possible in the second attempt with the right upgrade from the first.


So I think you would have to:

a) Recon South America in the first half of January
b) Lose that game
c) Spoilers for South America recon:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Add the Outrider ability that you get after the South America recon

d) Recon Middle East in the second half of January

I don't think, in that instance, you would have enough points to also get the Architect ability, so you would have to spend at least four cards for each research station with the Laborer.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
So that's seven black cards (four for the research station + Tripoli/Cairo/Istanbul), and then presumably you'd also need seven blue cards because you'd want to do the North America recon. Tough game!


I can see that it's something someone might try if they were replaying the game, and wanted to really mix it up. I don't think anyone would be insane enough to think this was a rational strategy from the outset

Spoiler for post-Cairo recon:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Would also then be fascinating to see how the game plays out with Hollow Men from January. My instinct is that March/April might be easier to win, because the Hollow Men would be thinning out supply removal/plague addition. But at the same time, they're likely to be absolutely decimating the population across the board and doing a ton of scarring leading to the mid/late game being more difficult!
 
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Komdetch Koonopakarn
United States
California
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To all the people saying there were no hints to explore Europe, the journal for the start of May literally says:

Spoilers May:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Hollow Men have left the Americas alone and seem to be moving (retreating?) into Europe and Africa. They stop at nothing. Wherever they go, the plague follows. They are like men possessed to end everything we’re trying to do. After 70 years, old prejudices still exist. Also, we’ve learned where our leaders went. Andy why we’re still here.


You said you "won the first 6 games easy". You had two months from when the hint was given to explore Europe.
 
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