Chris
United States
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Hello,

I recently picked this game and must admit I am quite impressed with the quality of the rulebook(s). I look forward to playing this soon.

Now, from what I understand, a player's usage of civil cards is public information that can generally be double-checked by the other players. However, this is not the same with usage of military cards. I thus have the following questions:

(1) What happens if a non-valid (non-event/non-territory) military card is placed in the future events pile? Is this technically against the rules? If yes, I suspect there would be no way to trace back and correct the error (and identify the culprit, for that matter).

(2) What happens if, during colonization, a player bids beyond its true ability to support it? Assuming this player doesn't win the auction, it may not be possible to catch this mistake later, yet the winning player would have suffered by having to bid more that what was truly required.

Any clarification on the above would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
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Travis C
United States
Texas
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Both those examples are against the rules.
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Matt Bowles
Australia
Tatura
Victoria
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Seems that the question is can someone cheat and not be caught because of the privacy rules implicit in the game? yes they can.

I've never known it to happen though. It is pretty low.

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Dave Eisen
United States
Menlo Park
CA
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Don't play with cheaters.
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Matthew Charlap
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New Jersey
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As others have said, you can't do anything about it if it was deliberate (other than refusing to play with that person again). As for fixing the problem if it happens by accident, that depends on how much can be recreated.

Assuming accidental mess ups (so the culprit would intentionally hide his mistake), I suggest:

For a non-event card played in the event pile, Treat it as the "no event" card that was in the A deck from the original release (so nothing happens). There is really no easy way to have an additional event flipped, as then there would be too few cards in the future events deck, and this would alter the entire future game. If the player who seeded it remembers the improper card as being from his hand, then I would subtract the culture earned from it, but impose no further penalty (the person already wasted a military card AND a political action).

For a mistaken bid, there are two possibilities: (i) the mistake is caught before the auction ends or (ii) the mistake is noticed later.

in case (i) I would roll back the auction to the last time there was a valid bid. The person who made the mistaken bid must then bid the maximum he possibly can. If that is less than the current bid, he can then pass (as there is no other legal action.) Granted, if there are still two people in the auction, the one who lost knows something about the (possibly former) winner's willingness to bid, but there isn't much you can do about it.

in case (ii), since it is only likely to be noticed if another colony comes up before the mistaken person's next military draw, then he should have to state the mistaken maximum bid from the previous auction (i.e.: "I just realized I couldn't bid 8, but my previous bid of 5 was valid" and the player who won the colony should, if nobody else jump-bid after the mistake, get back his expedition force/cards, and send a new one, with 1 lower required strength (if others bid after the incorrect one) or the difference between the minimum bid to win without that bid in units or cards (selected from what was actually used to make the bid, of course) if nobody else bid after the incorrect bid.
Note that the player who made the mistaken bid could not have won it, as the error would have been seen when he tried to pay for it, and so case (i) would apply instead.

An accidental bid is probably most likely to occur if someone is sending a full army, and didn't realize it was antiquated (so counted the wrong tactics bonus)
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E_R S
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The thing with the colony auctions has occurred to me, since for several reasons the colony auctions are my least favorite part of the game and the one your gaming group should probably change using a house rule. Even the app changes them by using a silent auction.

Actually, if your group uses a silent auction like the app does, not only will the auctions go quicker, you won't run into the incorrect bid problem. If the incorrect bid wins, just go with the next highest bid, which will have been made without knowledge of the incorrect bid and hence unaffected by it.

On the larger point, one thing with both these scenarios is that they would only occur by accident. There is little for doing them deliberately.

If you seed an aggression card instead of an event or a colony, you do gain points (how do you determine how many points if the card is not played publicly?) for seeding the card instead of discarding it. You may not have an event card in your hand, or you might have one that is unfavorable. However, it is almost always better to keep the defense cards in hand to, well, defend and also hang on to the attacks to you have the options available in case you get sufficient military. I don't think its worth one or two points to throw these cards away.

Theoretically, someone who did this every single turn could amass something like 20 culture from it. Would this actually happen? Doing this would mean never playing eny legitimate events at all, which would gain the same number of points for being played and actually often benefit the area. It would mean never playing an aggression card ever. And the other players might catch on, like, the third time this happens and start asking questions. It is just not worth doing it once for one or two points.

I also don't think it breaks the game to just have these cards played in public, not give the points for playing events, or even just allow people to seed non-events and territories and treat them as a no event when they came up (in other words, legalize the tactic). If you legalize the tactic it will quickly become apparent that it is a bad tactic.

On the colonies, the error would be caught immediately when it is time to assemble the force. Because the error would be caught immediately, there is no gain for "cheating" in this way. Just re-do the auction from the start if this happens, if you haven't avoided the situation by using a silent auction.
 
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Grant
United States
Cuyahoga Falls
Ohio
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esabatine wrote:
The thing with the colony auctions has occurred to me, since for several reasons the colony auctions are my least favorite part of the game and the one your gaming group should probably change using a house rule. Even the app changes them by using a silent auction.

Actually, if your group uses a silent auction like the app does...

You can not easily recreate the silent auction in the app, since the app doesn't reveal the high limit of the winning bidder (nor would you want it to).
 
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Riku Koskinen
Finland
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The only reason the app has an option for the single hidden bid instead of normal rules is that it makes the game faster, which is a good idea in asynchronous games. The app does have the normal bidding rules as well, and they should be used in blitz live games or when playing against AIs.

There is no reason to house-rule it differently in live games. If someone figures out the maximum bid he is willing to place, he might as well bid in the regular way up to his maximum bid.
 
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Matthew Charlap
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esabatine wrote:
.
On the colonies, the error would be caught immediately when it is time to assemble the force. Because the error would be caught immediately, there is no gain for "cheating" in this way. Just re-do the auction from the start if this happens, if you haven't avoided the situation by using a silent auction.


Actually, there is a gain, as the other players will gain knowledge of how much you could bid, and defense cards you might have. If your visible military has a total strength of 4 (say, fighting band and 3 warriors), and you bid 5, then it means you must have at least one defense/colonization card. In age 2, if you have classic army, 2 knights, and 3 swordsmen (16 strength in the army, 2 extra), and you bid 4, then unless you can clearly take the loss of 10 strength before your next turn (so you can rebuild the army), I would be 99% certain you have +2 in colonization cards (which is +4 defense). These would affect how aggressions are played (and subsequently either succeed or fail.)

In short, someone deliberately cheating in this way is gaining knowledge about the other player's military hands. Accidents do happen, however, and that is what I addressed in my previous post.
 
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