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Subject: Short game decent as is? rss

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Mrs. Vickies CHIPS
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I looked through the variants and did not see anything much proposed there for changes to short game. I'm thinking most don't bother with it, but I don't really know bit of an assumption hence this thread.

- I was thinking 10/11 turns would be nice, 8 seems a touch short.

- What about all these goods players start with in 2 player, works ok? Seems to make the start crazy easy in comparison?

- Seems a little odd to also omit special buildings?

Anything else you like/don't like about the short game?

Overall I am thinking something in between the short and regular would make a nice game, just seems the short went a touch too far in changes (for my liking)

Thanks for any thoughts
 
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Mrs. Vickies CHIPS
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Also what about some of the buildings missing in the 2 player game, are they missed?
 
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Mathieu Martin
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To me, the length of the short game is fine and there are so many buildings anyway, I dont really miss the ones you remove. I just think the difficulty ramp is a bit brutal.
 
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Mohit Sharma
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I played my first ever game as the short version with 3 players and I would recommend against it. A lot of our turns were taken up by trying to have enough food at the end of the round, but that might be also be because we were all playing for the first time.
The short game ramps up too quickly and it is over before you can take advantage of any of your game engines. By the time I could use the Shipping Line, there was 1 turn left.
So it was a good intro game to get an idea of how the game plays, but I was left very dissatisfied.
If you are playing just 2-3 players I would just bite the bullet and play the normal length game. You will find it far more rewarding.
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Mrs. Vickies CHIPS
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Thanks all, decided to play a modded 10 round 2 player game and working very well
 
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Royce Calverley
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Decent is a good word. The short game is fun but the long game is brilliant.
 
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Mrs. Vickies CHIPS
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Yeah I hear that. I was playing with my girl so wanted to break her in gently....

I actually modded the "short game" to be a lot more like the "real thing", so all the buildings (which is only 2 more), specials back in, less goods than the short, etc and 10 rounds. I do find 14 a little long, not sure I will go back to it I find this 10 round game just about perfect now
 
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Chris F.
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In my experience with 2p Le Havre, the short game is shorter than the full game, but it isn't that much shorter. Here are two reasons that I don't see mentioned in this thread:

1. Setup/teardown/scoring
They're about the same for each game length. In the short game you have no Special Buildings, but you must count out additional starting resources for each player. Scoring is clearly going to be about the same for each game length. Optimistically, about 30 minutes will get the game set up, scored, and put away. That's 30 minutes that is not proportionately decreased along with the number of rounds.

2. (2p) Le Havre tends to speed up as the game goes on
In the early- to midgame, players are deciding which buildings to build/buy, and new actions are available nearly every other turn. After this "building phase", the available options are mostly settled (when I play, this happens by round 10 at the latest). The remaining decisions are mostly tactical rather than strategic (though no less interesting), and so the last 4 or 5 rounds go much faster than the others. The short game cuts off some of the fastest rounds.

For these reasons, I don't play Le Havre's short game anymore. If don't have time for a full game of Le Havre, then I just don't have time for Le Havre.
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Matthew Tadyshak
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The short game is really only for those that are learning the rules.
 
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brandon bales
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This is all good news. Really wanna play the long game. Just finished my first time through (the short version), ...and had a negative score?

Wowwwwwww.
 
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chris thatcher
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Long game is where its at.
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Grant
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bales wrote:
This is all good news. Really wanna play the long game. Just finished my first time through (the short version), ...and had a negative score?

Wowwwwwww.

I honestly wouldn't have even thought that was possible. What did you spend the game doing? How many loans did you end up with that you could't pay back?
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Ryan Feathers
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grant5 wrote:
bales wrote:
This is all good news. Really wanna play the long game. Just finished my first time through (the short version), ...and had a negative score?

Wowwwwwww.

I honestly wouldn't have even thought that was possible. What did you spend the game doing? How many loans did you end up with that you could't pay back?


I agree it's pretty stunning to hear you can get a negative score. Like sure you could take a bunch of loans during the game and not be able to repay some of them back...but I agree what possible actions could you take that would lead to such a situation? I mean you presumably got a few buildings for some points, and hopefully got a few boats along the way. Then ship once or twice and you easily should at least be in the positives for points.

About the only scenario I can imagine is one where you just never made boats and constantly fed yourself off loans.

Or....hrmmm. New guess is that you played loans wrong. You only have to pay one coin interest, regardless of how many loans you already have. I could see how you could get a negative score if you were paying one franc per loan every time interest was due and got into a horrible cycle of taking out massive number of loans.

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brandon bales
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Hi.

Maybe we were playing a rule incorrectly?

It was the two-player, shortened game. We both had one building and one ship at the end. Indeed, we ran out of food super-quickly. I had ten loans at the end?

Wow, am I laying it all out here... Embarrassing. Heh.

I think we profoundly misunderstood something. By the time the wharf was available, the game was five or six rounds in, so we’d already sunk ourselves (haha) trying to feed the ravenous French hordes.

Anybody wanna swing by my place and give a quick teach? whistle
 
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Simon
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bales wrote:
I had ten loans at the end

Just a thought - you were only paying 1 Franc interest TOTAL for your batch of loans (which is correct) and not 1 Franc per loan?
 
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brandon bales
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We didn't even get to the Interest bit. (It was the second token.)
 
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Grant
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bales wrote:
We didn't even get to the Interest bit. (It was the second token.)

This comment makes so little sense that I’m positive you were playing the game fundamentally wrong. Maybe if you walk us through how a couple rounds go from your perspective we can get to the bottom of it?
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that Matt
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Or, may I suggest checking out this quick gameplay overview? A few turns are walked through, starting at around 2:00.
UFBRT 4 EVA

 
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brandon bales
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Oops. Haha. Haaaahaaaa.

I was waaaaay off. We were playing one round (in the two-player game) as two-turns-per supply action token, instead of seven actions!

No wonder.

Thanks for your input, all.

Now if you’ll excuse me while I go crawl into a digital hole.

(Sheep Emoji)
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Ryan Feathers
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bales wrote:
Oops. Haha. Haaaahaaaa.

I was waaaaay off. We were playing one round (in the two-player game) as two-turns-per supply action token, instead of seven actions!

No wonder.

Thanks for your input, all.

Now if you’ll excuse me while I go crawl into a digital hole.

(Sheep Emoji)


No worries! Most of us have at least one embarrassing rules story, more likely several. It happens.

Go try the game the right way--you should wind up with numerous buildings and boats by the end, even in a short game. And you should wind up with a positive score. (Not saying negative is impossible, but I would almost think you'd have to try for such a result).

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