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Terra Mystica» Forums » General

Subject: Original Map with VP changes on snellman rss

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Ged Ciur
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I have seen the proposal made for VP changes but never tried. Does anybody have some experience with VP changes? How much does it change the game? Is it being tested for maybe a new upcoming expansion?
 
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Per Glöde
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Do you mean the official Map Balanced VP by the publisher? It does not change the in-game faction best-practice tactics at all, it will change the meta-game for faction selection.
I see that "2018-03-31 - Added map VP variants" is now printed below the Snellman News headline! At last!
I have updated the Community Wiki page regarding this.

I hope the Snellman site will soon add the balanced VP "map" to the statistics section, and that there will be a lot of games recorded. (Beware: If the elite player "FakirsOnly" will start to wreak havoc as a 33VP-starting Fakir, there will be strange effects on the averages in the beginning.) After 1000 recorded games between somewhat equally skilled players have been recorded, I know we will see a nice flat distribution of end-of-game VP between all 14 factions, without any weaklings.
 
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Robert
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Good catch! Juho seems to make a habit of keeping changes secretive (no change notes) - he knows he can count on somebody to detect stuff and make it public.
 
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Robert
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I assume that games with the variable VPs do count towards ratings, though a confirmation would be nice.

 
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Ged Ciur
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won't it be like testing for some time? thus it will not effect rating, like with new maps
 
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Ola Caster
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DocCool wrote:
I assume that games with the variable VPs do count towards ratings, though a confirmation would be nice.


I suspect this will be added as a new map, since ratings now take maps into account. Obviously you will have a different expected outcome playing fakirs on original vs original-vp-adjusted.
 
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Ola Caster
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Blynas wrote:
won't it be like testing for some time? thus it will not effect rating, like with new maps

This is not playtesting, like with the maps under development. The designers decided that this change did not require any playtesting.
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Robert
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kruppy wrote:
I suspect this will be added as a new map, since ratings now take maps into account.
Just click on "New Game", and you'll find a map named "Original [2017 vp]". Those who finish such games early on, will get ratings as if all factions are rated 1000. After a while, faction ratings will become more stable at their new equilibrium. Until the new meta becomes common wisdom, and the equilibrium changes accordingly. Once this happens, we'll know whether Alchemists have become the new Darklings, and which factions will trail behind. And whether the spread is better or worse.

Btw. it now makes even more sense that Juho introduced faction-per-map ratings earlier, as introducing asymmetrical start VPs without that would be counter-productive.
 
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Juho Snellman
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DocCool wrote:
Good catch! Juho seems to make a habit of keeping changes secretive (no change notes) - he knows he can count on somebody to detect stuff and make it public. :)

I honestly don't understand what you mean. It was in the changelog and on the front page. The changelog entry lists exactly how the feature works:
Quote:

2018-03-31 - Added map VP variants
Add support for the official 2017 starting VP variant. The variant shows up as a new map, Original [2017 vp], when creating or joining a game. It will also be considered as a distinct map for all forms of statistics.


It's a new map. The new map will be considered distinct from the original for statistics. There is no a big bolded warning about games being unranked, unlike for every single playtest map announcement.

But for the avoidance of doubt. Games with this variant will be included in statistics (once some games finish). They will be ranked.
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Gambia
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jsnell wrote:
They will be ranked.


If I understand correctly, elo calculation takes into account the player’s elo as well as the elo of the faction that was played. But as the factions elos don’t reflect their strength on this map anymore, isn’t it a concern ?
 
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Steve Haas
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Faction ratings are map-specific now, so (because the VP offsets have been entered as a new map) the existing faction ratings will not affect the faction ratings with VP offsets (and vice versa).
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Robert
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jsnell wrote:
DocCool wrote:
Good catch! Juho seems to make a habit of keeping changes secretive (no change notes) - he knows he can count on somebody to detect stuff and make it public.

I honestly don't understand what you mean. It was in the changelog and on the front page. The changelog entry lists exactly how the feature works:
Hmm. I seem to be looking at the wrong places then? I'm referring to these changelogs:
* https://terra.snellman.net/changes/
* https://github.com/jsnell/terra-mystica/commits/master

Where should I look instead?
 
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Robert
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DocCool wrote:
jsnell wrote:
DocCool wrote:
Good catch! Juho seems to make a habit of keeping changes secretive (no change notes) - he knows he can count on somebody to detect stuff and make it public.

I honestly don't understand what you mean. It was in the changelog and on the front page. The changelog entry lists exactly how the feature works:
Hmm. I seem to be looking at the wrong places then? I'm referring to these changelogs:
* https://terra.snellman.net/changes/
* https://github.com/jsnell/terra-mystica/commits/master

Where should I look instead?
I notice that it's now listed on https://terra.snellman.net/changes/. Thanks!
 
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Juho Snellman
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DocCool wrote:
I notice that it's now listed on https://terra.snellman.net/changes/. Thanks!

It's been there since before this thread was created. You can see people refer to it in messages before yours. I'm assuming you've been getting a cached copy of the page from your browser, or something.
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