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Subject: Why dont D&D players like GH? rss

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Raaj Simran
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Played my first ever session yesterday and both my friends that played said they preferred D&D over GH. They said the dice gave it an unpredictability that is missing from GH. Also, having the rules spread all over did not help.

In fact, the game made them confirm that our next gaming session is going to be D&D.
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Travis Geery
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Very likely the same reason D&D players prefer that rpg over any other rpg, it is what they know and any deviation from that known game is less enjoyable for them. Gloomhaven isn't for everyone just as D&D isn't for everyone.

To be clear I find nothing wrong with players liking what they like, just frustrating having players refuse to try anything new because they like what they like.
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Chris Postema
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Is this supposed to be a question? I grew up loving D&D and I also love Gloomhaven. I have several friends who still role play and also love Gloomhaven. Gloomhaven is very different. D&D is much more random, which can generate some excitement I suppose.
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Daily Grind
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Tons of D&D players like Gloomhaven. A sample size of one does not make a trend.
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Ben Kyo
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D&D is an RPG, while Gloomhaven is a boardgame. If someone wants to play an RPG, they are not going to choose a boardgame over playing an RPG.
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Corey Schenevere
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I played D&D for 15 years (always the DM) & three good friends who played D&D with the me for 10+ years currently make up my 2nd Edition Gloomhaven party.

We are all obsessed with Gloomhaven.

Love of one doesn't preclude love for the other.
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Michael Lee
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All 3 players in my Gloomhaven group also play D&D and all of us love to play both. They are very different experiences and, to me, are equally fun. There are other D&D players I know who don't play Gloomhaven, mainly because they don't play board games in general.
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that Matt
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Why don't Gloomhaven players like D&D? Why don't rugby players like football? Why don't football players like rugby? Why don't bananas like peaches? Why don't feelings like purple?
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Fito R
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I play both D&D and GH and like both, for very different reasons.

This thread confuses me.
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Victor Ferreira
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Benkyo wrote:
D&D is an RPG, while Gloomhaven is a boardgame. If someone wants to play an RPG, they are not going to choose a boardgame over playing an RPG.
Uh, Gloomhaven is also an RPG. It's just an RPG in the form of a boardgame rather than in the form of a pencil-and-paper or in the form of a videogame.
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Frank Franco
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Twilight_Sonata wrote:
Benkyo wrote:
D&D is an RPG, while Gloomhaven is a boardgame. If someone wants to play an RPG, they are not going to choose a boardgame over playing an RPG.
Uh, Gloomhaven is also an RPG. It's just an RPG in the form of a boardgame rather than in the form of a pencil-and-paper or in the form of a videogame.


If Gloomhaven is a RPG then my house is a castle.
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Ben Kyo
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Twilight_Sonata wrote:
Benkyo wrote:
D&D is an RPG, while Gloomhaven is a boardgame. If someone wants to play an RPG, they are not going to choose a boardgame over playing an RPG.
Uh, Gloomhaven is also an RPG. It's just an RPG in the form of a boardgame rather than in the form of a pencil-and-paper or in the form of a videogame.

Yay, lets play the definition game. Again.

I am aware that Gloomhaven has some RPG-lite elements and a persistent campaign, and I am aware that some people play D&D like a miniatures skirmish game, and I am aware that a entire genre of pre-scripted computer games are also called RPGs.

I imagine it would not be all that hard to read my comment and substitute "pencil-and-paper RPG" for "RPG" and "RPG in the form of a boardgame" for "boardgame", if that suits your semantic preferences better. We certainly aren't going to cover any new ground, or have any kind of enlightening discussion, if you try and convince me to change my own preferred terminology.
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Jeff Wygal
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Twilight_Sonata wrote:
Benkyo wrote:
D&D is an RPG, while Gloomhaven is a boardgame. If someone wants to play an RPG, they are not going to choose a boardgame over playing an RPG.
Uh, Gloomhaven is also an RPG. It's just an RPG in the form of a boardgame rather than in the form of a pencil-and-paper or in the form of a videogame.
You could also say Monopoly is a RPG. While an argument could be made, it's not what most people would consider a RPG. Gloomhaven is a tactical combat board game with a fantasy dungeon crawl theme. While there are certainly similarities, the experience of a true RPG like D&D is very different than that of GH. Comparing the two maks about as much sense as this quote from the Simpsons:
Lenny: "If you ask me, Muhammad Ali in his prime was much better than anti-lock brakes."
Carl: "Yeah, but what about Johnny Mathis vs. Diet Pepsi?"
Moe: "Oh I cannot listen to this again."
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Freelance Police
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Guru of Small Meeple wrote:
They said the dice gave it an unpredictability that is missing from GH.


Everyone's missing this part. His friends like dice. GH does not have dice. Some people like dice.

What do your friends think of dice-chucking dungeoncrawlers like Descent, HeroQuest, etc.?
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Victor Ferreira
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Gloomhaven is pretty unambiguously an rpg, and I have no idea why y'all are being defensive about that.
 
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MrW0nka
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Quote:
They said the dice gave it an unpredictability that is missing from GH.


There are a lot of valid reasons to like D&D instead of Gloomhaven. That is not one of them.

Hell, even if they said that they like to roll dice because they like to see the dice bounce around and then land on one face -- that would be valid. Gloomhaven just substitutes cards for dice. The attack deck adds predictability similar to rolling a D20 for an attack. The cool thing about it of course is that you can essentially modify your D20 on a per-class basis to weight the outcomes as you level up.

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't like one game over another. But if they are giving lame excuses like that, they probably haven't given it much of a chance yet.
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michele c
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Guru of Small Meeple wrote:
having the rules spread all over did not help.


Did you just play one session? It feels like your friends like easy and well known, rather than steep learning curve. How do they feel about other pen and paper RPGs? Do they like to try out new systems or do they want to stick to DD?

Maybe it is not GH the problem. After they try a couple of sessions and they feel more confident with the rules, they may change their mind.

Twilight_Sonata wrote:
Gloomhaven is pretty unambiguously an rpg, and I have no idea why y'all are being defensive about that.


I would like to hear this unambiguous definition of rpg. (Honestly, not sarcastic)
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Stefan
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Though I probably hurt some Pen & Paper player's feelings now, but why on earth should Gloomhaven not be a Role Playing Game? Every player pursues the ROLE of a mercenary with a unique personal goal which you can or cannot keep secret. Players are motivated to communicate with each other from the view of their character in order to fulfill their battle goals and to keep their card numbers secret. Players can make decissions which have influence on the Game world, both in the events and in chosing how to proceed in the story line. There is character progress and even events in the game that refer to specific characters, quests that are related to specific characters etc.

So, is Gloomhaven a tactical miniature combat game with euro inspired rules? Yes. Is Gloomhaven an RPG? Definitely, even if the role playing part is not as deep as in D&D. It is simply both.
 
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Kerstin
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I like D&D as a role playing game. I like Gloomhaven as a boardgame.

I don't like D&D as a boardgame and I don't like Gloomhaven as a role playing game (you might be able to pass it as a roll playing game but certainly not as a role playing game).
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Michael T.
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A friend of mine is a teacher and loves Gloomhaven.

So why do all teachers love Gloomhaven?
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Dreadknot Knotdread
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Benkyo wrote:
D&D is an RPG, while Gloomhaven is a boardgame. If someone wants to play an RPG, they are not going to choose a boardgame over playing an RPG.


This. You're comparing apples to oranges. Also if your friends can't see that flipping those cards adds a similar randomness to dice then they're not really trying.

I haven't read the whole thread but I suspect you posted this on April fool's for a reason.
 
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Fito R
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Twilight_Sonata wrote:
Gloomhaven is pretty unambiguously an rpg, and I have no idea why y'all are being defensive about that.
While Gloomhaven certainly has a lot of similarities to video game RPGs, here in the board gaming world RPG means something very different. Gloomhaven isn't a board-game RPG.
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soak man
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I think that the "dice make D&D random" is a cop-out excuse. They may just like dice, but between the shuffled modifier decks, the auto fail, the random enemy action/movements, there is MORE than enough randomness. You just have the ability to tailor that randomness as you level.

I think they are just rigidly thinking that dice are superior. I like chucking dice sometimes, but that does not make modifier decks NOT random. They totally are.

The game, however, IS almost entirely tactical combat scenarios. They have a valid complaint if they just want to RP non-combat situations more.
 
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soak man
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Joou wrote:
Twilight_Sonata wrote:
Gloomhaven is pretty unambiguously an rpg, and I have no idea why y'all are being defensive about that.
While Gloomhaven certainly has a lot of similarities to video game RPGs, here in the board gaming world RPG means something very different. Gloomhaven isn't a board-game RPG.


Not to get off topic, but this is how I feel when gamers say that FPS games are role-playing games, and action RPG's are role-playing games. There is no such thing as a role-playing game that does not include multiple party members and combat that involves at least some tactical decisions. You 'take on a role' in every game you play. That is not a distinct way to define a genre.

FFXV is barely a role-playing game. It is an action game. (sorry, big digression, but comparable).
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Kip Kwiatkowski
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
Twilight_Sonata wrote:
Benkyo wrote:
D&D is an RPG, while Gloomhaven is a boardgame. If someone wants to play an RPG, they are not going to choose a boardgame over playing an RPG.
Uh, Gloomhaven is also an RPG. It's just an RPG in the form of a boardgame rather than in the form of a pencil-and-paper or in the form of a videogame.


If Gloomhaven is a RPG then my house is a castle.


...Is it named Greyskull...
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