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Subject: Verification on Oceans Hungry Grasp ability. rss

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Ryan Fairweather
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Maybe I am being dense but I need a little help fully understanding Ocean's ability. If I have a presence in an ocean and an invader is pushed/gathered into it it is automatically destroyed? Or does it need to officially be "drowned"?

Would I keep said invaders there until I want to convert them to energy?

Thanks in advance for the help! I just got the game a few days ago and trying out the spirits. Really enjoying my time with the game!
 
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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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Invaders pushed into the ocean on an island board where Ocean has any presence (whether in the ocean itself or in any coastal land) are drowned, meaning they are immediately destroyed (generating fear as appropriate), then placed on Ocean’s spirit board to be cashed in for energy in the future. Some of Ocean’s starting powers can also drown invaders directly, with the same effect.
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Ryan Fairweather
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Much appreciated!
 
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Joshua Simone [The Quasi Geek Dad]
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Santiago wrote:
Invaders pushed into the ocean on an island board where Ocean has any presence (whether in the ocean itself or in any coastal land) are drowned, meaning they are immediately destroyed (generating fear as appropriate), then placed on Ocean’s spirit board to be cashed in for energy in the future. Some of Ocean’s starting powers can also drown invaders directly, with the same effect.
Interesting. We interpret the special ability that you don’t generate fear until you destroy the drowned figures for energy.
 
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DeadMoney wrote:
Santiago wrote:
Invaders pushed into the ocean on an island board where Ocean has any presence (whether in the ocean itself or in any coastal land) are drowned, meaning they are immediately destroyed (generating fear as appropriate), then placed on Ocean’s spirit board to be cashed in for energy in the future. Some of Ocean’s starting powers can also drown invaders directly, with the same effect.
Interesting. We interpret the special ability that you don’t generate fear until you destroy the drowned figures for energy.
You may, but it's the wrong interpretation

Destruction is immediate, which triggers the fear. Then they hang around on Ocean's board out of play as a currency until cashed in.
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Vg 12th
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Santiago wrote:
Invaders pushed into the ocean on an island board where Ocean has any presence (whether in the ocean itself or in any coastal land) are drowned,
Strange, we thought only invaders pushed into the ocean itself are drowned, not coastal lands. Wasn't this the reason why oceans with OHG presence can be treated as wetlands in order for spirits to push invaders there?

Does that mean that the invader card that puts explorers into coastal lands, all of these new explorers are drowned, completely negating that card?
 
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Jonathan Zev
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Vg12th wrote:
Santiago wrote:
Invaders pushed into the ocean on an island board where Ocean has any presence (whether in the ocean itself or in any coastal land) are drowned,
Strange, we thought only invaders pushed into the ocean itself are drowned, not coastal lands. Wasn't this the reason why oceans with OHG presence can be treated as wetlands in order for spirits to push invaders there?

Does that mean that the invader card that puts explorers into coastal lands, all of these new explorers are drowned, completely negating that card?
You're misreading that. The invaders must be in the ocean to drown. Ocean's Hungry Grasp does not, as long as tgey have presence somewhere on the board.
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Jeff Dougan
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Vg12th wrote:
Santiago wrote:
Invaders pushed into the ocean on an island board where Ocean has any presence (whether in the ocean itself or in any coastal land) are drowned,
Strange, we thought only invaders pushed into the ocean itself are drowned, not coastal lands. Wasn't this the reason why oceans with OHG presence can be treated as wetlands in order for spirits to push invaders there?

Does that mean that the invader card that puts explorers into coastal lands, all of these new explorers are drowned, completely negating that card?
No, what it means is that Ocean's physical presence piece does not need to be in the ocean space itself, but that it can be in one of the coastal lands, too. (Or, if you've used Indomitable Claim, anyplace on that physical piece of cardboard.)
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Dylan Thurston
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DeadMoney wrote:
Santiago wrote:
Invaders pushed into the ocean on an island board where Ocean has any presence (whether in the ocean itself or in any coastal land) are drowned, meaning they are immediately destroyed (generating fear as appropriate), then placed on Ocean’s spirit board to be cashed in for energy in the future. Some of Ocean’s starting powers can also drown invaders directly, with the same effect.
Interesting. We interpret the special ability that you don’t generate fear until you destroy the drowned figures for energy.
This is at least the second time I've seen this interpretation. I'm not sure where it comes from, but I added a FAQ. (As others have indicated, the intended answer is that you earn the Fear immediately.)
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Jeremy Lennert
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1 You can gather/push invaders into the ocean space as long as Ocean's Hungry Grasp has at least 1 presence anywhere on the same board.

2 Invaders and Dahan in the ocean are drowned automatically.

3 Invaders and Dahan on the coast are not drowned automatically, but can be drowned by certain powers (Swallow the Land-Dwellers, Ocean Breaks the Shore).

4 When an invader is drowned, it is destroyed, with all the usual effects (including fear), plus the piece gets put on Ocean's player board, where it can be converted into energy.
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Joshua Simone [The Quasi Geek Dad]
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dthurston wrote:
DeadMoney wrote:
Santiago wrote:
Invaders pushed into the ocean on an island board where Ocean has any presence (whether in the ocean itself or in any coastal land) are drowned, meaning they are immediately destroyed (generating fear as appropriate), then placed on Ocean’s spirit board to be cashed in for energy in the future. Some of Ocean’s starting powers can also drown invaders directly, with the same effect.
Interesting. We interpret the special ability that you don’t generate fear until you destroy the drowned figures for energy.
This is at least the second time I've seen this interpretation. I'm not sure where it comes from, but I added a FAQ. (As others have indicated, the intended answer is that you earn the Fear immediately.)
It is how it is worded on the Spirit Playmat. It says "destroy" drowned figures. After seeing the correct way on here, I see how my reading was erroneous. I think it because I just read it too fast and read what I wanted to read. haha. Not sure if how I was doing it was harder or easier, as you could kind of control when a Fear card would come up.
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Phoenix Gruber
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Huh, I've been playing that wrong. I'd thought that the ocean only counted as a land if Ocean has Presence in that Ocean. So if your only Presence in that ocean got pushed out (such as from the growth option that pushes from each ocean), then that ocean space stops being a land until Ocean gets a Presence in it again.

I did have another related question that just came up recently, in fact. How is adjacency and range counted along coasts of nearby boards? The way I've been playing it is that all coastal lands are adjacent to the ocean on that board, but are NOT adjacent to oceans on the board to the north/south, even if they ARE adjacent to the coast of the other board.

For instance, Land 1 of the East board is adjacent to Land 4 of the North-East board. While they may be adjacent to each other, you could not use a single Call of the Deeps to gather an Explorer from both, as they are not both adjacent to either the East or North-East ocean.

Would this be right, or do all oceans that are "in play" count as a single land, making the whole coastline adjacent?
 
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Dylan Thurston
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Absol197 wrote:
Huh, I've been playing that wrong. I'd thought that the ocean only counted as a land if Ocean has Presence in that Ocean. So if your only Presence in that ocean got pushed out (such as from the growth option that pushes from each ocean), then that ocean space stops being a land until Ocean gets a Presence in it again.
It was that way for much of playtesting, but we felt it was too hard to track the tides that way.
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I did have another related question that just came up recently, in fact. How is adjacency and range counted along coasts of nearby boards? The way I've been playing it is that all coastal lands are adjacent to the ocean on that board, but are NOT adjacent to oceans on the board to the north/south, even if they ARE adjacent to the coast of the other board.
Yes, that's correct. It matches the areas marked on the physical cardboard--each Ocean is a separate land.

(This is a little confusing when playing on the playmat.)
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Phoenix Gruber
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dthurston wrote:
Absol197 wrote:
Huh, I've been playing that wrong. I'd thought that the ocean only counted as a land if Ocean has Presence in that Ocean. So if your only Presence in that ocean got pushed out (such as from the growth option that pushes from each ocean), then that ocean space stops being a land until Ocean gets a Presence in it again.
It was that way for much of playtesting, but we felt it was too hard to track the tides that way.
Quote:
I did have another related question that just came up recently, in fact. How is adjacency and range counted along coasts of nearby boards? The way I've been playing it is that all coastal lands are adjacent to the ocean on that board, but are NOT adjacent to oceans on the board to the north/south, even if they ARE adjacent to the coast of the other board.
Yes, that's correct. It matches the areas marked on the physical cardboard--each Ocean is a separate land.

(This is a little confusing when playing on the playmat.)
Okay, great . Good to know I was getting SOMETHING right, at least!
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Govind Krishna
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Absol197 wrote:
Huh, I've been playing that wrong. I'd thought that the ocean only counted as a land if Ocean has Presence in that Ocean. So if your only Presence in that ocean got pushed out (such as from the growth option that pushes from each ocean), then that ocean space stops being a land until Ocean gets a Presence in it again.
This is exactly how we played until I read this thread and the FAQ.
The correct way makes sense even thematically, where Ocean has come forth and it’s presence stretches from coastal land to the ocean itself.
And we were unknowingly punishing ourselves without taking Fear when towns/cities were being drowned.
 
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Mike
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Interesting discussion.

To add, I have just been playing it as long as Ocean has presence on that board, you can push invaders/dahan into the Ocean specific section which would automatically be drowned and stored on Ocean's board. This does generate fear immediately.

Ocean's board specifies it can drown people only on the coast, so if you used indomitable land to place a presence 1 more inland, you cannot drown there, but can use cards to target from that presence.

Another specification is to treat the Ocean tile as wetlands for the sake of Major/Minor power cards. Because Ocean is never a specified tile for anything, it makes sense to be treated as a wetlands for effects, such as blight removal.

Ocean can acquire blight which can then be removed via wetlands targeting cards that do so, for example.

Also, I do not know if other presence can utilize the ocean while he is in play. That is probably the only rule I don't see here that could be clarified.

So far, my group has played without being able to place there, except for Ocean.
 
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Dylan Thurston
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You have everything correct.
Aqualicy wrote:
Also, I do not know if other presence can utilize the ocean while he is in play. That is probably the only rule I don't see here that could be clarified.
There's a FAQ for that. (Spirits can't place Presence there during Growth, as that's not a Power, but can end up there via, eg, Gift of Proliferation.)
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