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Subject: dynamic prices rss

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kos blaat
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Has anyone experimented with a price of goods mechanism like power grid in Concordia? Wit a price manipulation card in hand?
That would make the game fresh every time
 
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Derry Salewski
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The game is fresh every time. And planning many moves ahead is kinda an important part of it.

Play navegador!
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kos blaat
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for you perhaps. And navegador takes too long for me but thanks for the tip.
 
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Ryucoo
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scifiantihero wrote:
The game is fresh every time. And planning many moves ahead is kinda an important part of it.



This. It would be very frustrating to have planned several moves ahead for the price of goods you were aiming to acquire to change.

You’d basically take any long term strategy out of it, so I’m not sure this idea would work.
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Michael Boggs
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kosterix wrote:
Has anyone experimented with a price of goods mechanism like power grid in Concordia? Wit a price manipulation card in hand?
That would make the game fresh every time


As has been stated:"the game is fresh every time". This is true, to an extent. The layout of the board and as such the locations and proximity of specific resource cities is random each and every game (if one chooses to).

I have not had the pleasure of playing Navegador before, I will certainly strive to correct this deficiency.

I must state that both Power Grid and Concordia rank among my top 10 games (perhaps even top 5). So the idea of a variable market price for the goods had come up for me as an interesting addition.

The biggest hangup I found being the unlimited quantities of goods available to the game.
After this, a replenishment rate would need to be determined... And even then, good are produced via the Providence cards (which one may select as their sole source of replenishment...but anyhow)...

My group decided that while an interesting idea to weave into the game (and not a game breaker by any means)... The balancement and exact mechanisms would be more effort than we we're willing to devote at this time.

Certainly willing to help out if you wish to continue the endeavor though.
 
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alan beaumont
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Dynamic prices?
kosterix wrote:
Has anyone experimented with a price of goods mechanism like power grid in Concordia?
This certainly messes with the Mercators, but the market would also react to supply, provided by the Prefects. Unfortunately creating supply (drawing resources) actually puts the price up!

Goods are cashed at the end of the game for points, so this variant would have a slightly odd, albeit marginal effect.

Finally, if you adapt the PG system, you are going to need to add five goods tracks onto the table.

I'd rather keep the simplicity of the present set up.
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Govind Krishna
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kosterix wrote:
Has anyone experimented with a price of goods mechanism like power grid in Concordia? Wit a price manipulation card in hand?
That would make the game fresh every time
Can't imagine how that would play out. Especially if a player is planning a couple of turns ahead like others have mentioned. Concordia is awesome for its depth in simplicity, and with different maps, it's quite fresh every time imho.
Have you tried Clans of Caledonia? That's a game that plays a bit around the market value of goods.
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kos blaat
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Please don't mention CoC. I played it last Saturday and hated every minute of it, for about 200 of them. Never again, that game is broken in just about every sense of the word.

Ok nobody wants variable market for Concordia. Point taken.
 
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Chris H
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I hardly think COC is broken in any sense of the word, but I do enjoy the game. You are certainly fine to dislike CoC, though.

While I do like a dynamic market, it may muddy the lean waters of Concordia. Another game with an interesting dynamic market is Planet Steam. It has a lot of market manipulation.
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Brett McLay
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kosterix wrote:
Has anyone experimented with a price of goods mechanism like Power Grid (in Concordia)? With a price manipulation card in hand? ...
I agree this would require more accounting tracks / cause undo complexity. Economic balance is a fragile thing. I wouldn't interfere with Concordia's elegant abstraction.

It's hard to find an economic game that is card-based including commodities. The closest I can imagine is Saint Petersburg -- without the market. Commodities without the cards: The Gallerist & many more. (My fav' from Lacerda will be CO₂: Second Chance.)

But another tableau-builder is The Manhattan Project: Energy Empire. While the game has a core 'worker placement' mechanism, it uses cards to build structures. These generate goods, convert goods and thus impact their 'price'. Also, the cost of oil increases as the game progresses -- which you can strategize & speed up. Perhaps this mimics your idea, which I think is interesting. thumbsup
 
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Ryucoo
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There's also Nautilus Industries, where there is a gem market based on the gems you recover from the sea bed which has a whole supply and demand thing going on.
 
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kos blaat
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The score track around the board can be used during the game if you put each of the good pieces on a score field at the beginning of the game, starting from 0,1,2 upward, and the next uncovered score field shows a modifier such as -2, +1 etc.
Same trick as in CoC, TM, Gaia etc.
This doesn't lead to a lot of administration at all. You buy and sell at the value modifier at the beginning of your turn, so if you sell two good types they have the same modifier.
Whenever someone scores a province, say all present there get wine, the wine is taken from the scoring track, which could mean the person whose turn is next, can sell his wine for more.
This seems quite natural and thematic to me, and it detracts less than having to reach over to the plastic storage cups across the table.
After game end the goods occupying the scoring track are put into the game box, effectively reducing the game board to original version state.

I grew up with 1830, and we played it to death, later also the pc version, a game well known for its masterful market manipulation mechanics, perhaps that deformed my bg tastes..
 
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kos blaat
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Ryucoo wrote:
There's also Nautilus Industries, where there is a gem market based on the gems you recover from the sea bed which has a whole sale and demand thing going on.

Never heard of it,I'll look it up. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
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alan beaumont
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Dynamic Prices?
kosterix wrote:
Whenever someone scores a province, say all present there get wine, the wine is taken from the scoring track, which could mean the person whose turn is next, can sell his wine for more.
But that's the weird thing. The players put wine onto the market and the price goes up? Increasing supply generally decreases prices.
 
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kos blaat
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Sorry if i wasn't clear. Scoring the province gives everyone involved some wine tokens, ok? They are taken from the scoring track, so there are fewer on the scoring track. So there is less on the supply.
This means the price of wine has gone up a bit (a +1 or +2 modifier is visible).
Next person who has no use for wine can dump it onto the market (i.e. the scoring track), getting a nice profit, and this drives the price of wine down after he's done.

If you knew Power Grid, it's exactly the same.

But as stated before, probably the Creator of Concordia has thought of it, considered it, with the variants on price elasticity, and discarded it. No problem.
 
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alan beaumont
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Wine whine
kosterix wrote:
Sorry if i wasn't clear. Scoring the province gives everyone involved some wine tokens, ok? They are taken from the scoring track, so there are fewer on the scoring track. So there is less on the supply.
This means the price of wine has gone up a bit (a +1 or +2 modifier is visible).
Next person who has no use for wine can dump it onto the market (i.e. the scoring track), getting a nice profit, and this drives the price of wine down after he's done.
That works for Mercators, but like I said, Prefects are wine producers, they create wine to put into the market, which should depress prices. The power Grid model is solely one of consumption, so isn't a fit here.
 
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Govind Krishna
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kosterix wrote:
Please don't mention CoC. I played it last Saturday and hated every minute of it, for about 200 of them. Never again, that game is broken in just about every sense of the word.
Sad, you had a bad time with CoC. However, I respectfully disagree about the game being broken

kosterix wrote:
Ok nobody wants variable market for Concordia. Point taken.
Let's see what the Venus expansion cards add, might have variable market
The salsa expansions have forum tiles that vary prices of goods (or certain goods) for the player who owns them. But it doesn't affect another player obviously.
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Ryucoo
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kosterix wrote:
Please don't mention CoC. I played it last Saturday and hated every minute of it, for about 200 of them. Never again, that game is broken in just about every sense of the word.

Ok nobody wants variable market for Concordia. Point taken.


Out of interest (was somewhat considering the game), what's broken about it?
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