Michael Leibig
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Greetings,

OK, here is another thing I was thinking about. Tom said there was a game that "killed" Star Realms for him, and then Eric made a sound like he just got stomach punched. He had so much stuff for Star Realms and then to find out there is a better version out there. Ooof

Which got me thinking -- Tom is in sort of a unique position. For him, getting rid of one game for another is super easy. Most likely, this better version of a game he got as a review copy and he just tosses the old one on the sell pile. But for a person who has to buy a game, it is somewhat trickier. Do I get a better return for my hard earned gaming dollars by getting a game that is very different from something I already own or should I spend my money "upgrading" an experience that right now I enjoy for free?

For example, I got Scythe for Christmas last year and I expect it will be an Eclipse killer for me. I kind ofknew it would be, but I could tell that the faults with Eclipse meant that it would not be getting it to the table (mostly game length). It seemed like Scythe had similar type mechanics, but was way faster. I do like Scythe and will probably not play Eclipse again unless someone else requests it. However, a game I play all the time, like say Vast, I would be unlikely to upgrade if someone told me they had a Vast killer. I don't need something similar but slightly better. It would need to be a lot better.

Also, how much of the excitement is that it is new? I like opening a new game and reading the rules and figuring out the "new" elements of a game. However, after I have figured it out, it might basically just fall back into the same category as the old game I just "killed." Any game with a slight twist adds freshness to the experience and my "old game killer" is now likely to be killed itself by another slight variation.

It would be interesting to look at a sequence of games that killed other games, and see if there is a linked list of sorts (e.g. Sidereal Confluence killed Chinatown killed I'm the Boss). I wonder if Tom has done a multi-generational kill like that.

Your obedient,

M. Leibig
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Bruce Gazdecki
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I'm curious what game killed Star Realms.

As for me personally, I don't really think in terms like that. I buy games that I think I would enjoy and then eventually I have to get rid of some, and sometimes I do think to myself that if I want to play X style game and have to choose between Y and Z, I would probably choose to play Z because of ABC.

Usually though it's just I need room, I don't think I'll play that anymore, so time to sell/trade it.
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Warren Adams
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Why does one game 'have to' kill another?

You are not Tom, your life doesn't need to mirror his.
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Sigh. Be nice, Warren.

To the original post: Good point, this is an interesting point that I'll talk about in the future.

In this particular case, I don't have Star Realms, so it wasn't a case of me getting rid of something.
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Bruiser419 wrote:
I'm curious what game killed Star Realms.


Shards of Infinity
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Patrick Dettmar
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I don't think it is how much better, but more how similar. If 2 games are extremely similar, then one onlyhas tobe slightly better than the other to kill it. If the games are only slightly similar, they may notkill each other, even with a pretty wide margin of "betterness", because they still offer different experiences. The more similar the games, the more similar the experience, the narrower the kill threshold.

Edit: for me, eclipse and scythe are only slightly similar, and offer very different experiences, and as such, are extremely unlikelyto kill each other, because eclipse is only slightly better than scythe in my book (opinions may vary). One would have to be so vastly superior to the other to kill it, because the games just aren't that similar mechanically.
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Susan J
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Having played Quarriors at a friend's house, I was quite happy to buy the original game in the square tin for a large discount at my FLGS years ago.

There have been several variations of it since then and the last one is supposed to be really great.

However, I have never pursued any of the others. I enjoy what I have and play that and I really won't buy anything else.

So, even if one game replaces or kills a game, it doesn't mean you have to feel bad about keeping and enjoying what you have.

SueKuKu
 
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There are many reasons someone might swap a game for another that offers the same experience.
Two games might be so similar in gameplay and mechanics, but a person might decide to swap it with another based on theme, component quality, time or even artwork.

I know many games that I would love to play/have but I don't like the theme at all, and I wish they release a second version with a different theme or a new game to come out that does it.

An example for me would be Pandemic. I wanted to try it based on the hype and the mechanics, but I did not like the theme. When Pandemic Iberia came out I bought it with no second thoughts and I love the game. The historical theme attracted me to Pandemic Iberia.

Another example is time. Sam from the dice tower swapped Mage Wars with Mage Wars Arena. Getting the same fill and experience for a fraction of the time. I also bought Mage Wars Academy.
Time is very important for us with kids, and a game killer a lot of the time. I would swap a time consuming game with another of the similar experience that plays in a shorter time.
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I think the criteria for games killing (or replacing) each other are very subjective and largely depend on what itches the games scratch.

For instance, I like Star Realms a lot. When Cthulhu Realms came out, I got a copy and liked the game, and even though it didn't surpass Star Realms for me, I kept it around. It only got killed when Hero Realms came out. I don't need three games that are very similar.

Star Realms and Hero Realms don't kill each other for me because while being very similar (to the point of being almost identical), they have different themes that might appeal to different people I play with.
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Krisztian Posch
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It's completely subjective, a game might kill something for you, but not for another person. For instance, I've played Scythe twice and I found it very uninspiring compared to Eclipse. Same with Century: Spice Road, I'd still play Splendor over that anytime. The only case that I could name where a game replaced another for me was Key to the City: London replacing Keyflower - but then, it was a streamlined version of the original...
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Oldman20 wrote:
Greetings,

OK, here is another thing I was thinking about. Tom said there was a game that "killed" Star Realms for him, and then Eric made a sound like he just got stomach punched. He had so much stuff for Star Realms and then to find out there is a better version out there. Ooof


Well, the question is: Is it a better version?
First: It is a subjective evaluation, whether two games are actually two versions of the same game. Some people consider Clank! a replacement of Dominion, I don't think it's even closely the same game. Or with Century: Tom considers it a Splendor-killer, but many think you shouldn't compare the two.

Second: If you consider the two games to be versions of each other, then its again subjective which one you like more.
I like Marcos example with the Star/Cthulu/Hero-Realms. I prefer Hero Realms, my brother Star Realms, and other people probably Cthulu because of the theme.

So, if you consider two games that similar and one clearly better, when is it a killer? Seriously, I don't think I have ever considered any of my games to be killed by another game. I have my doubts, whether two games can be at the same time really similar and have a huge difference in game-quality. Coming by back to the Realms-Example: I don't think one of the games is clearly better then the other, each version has qualities on its own.
 
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For me, personally, I "get" what you mean with this topic but I'll still play whatever game I have in addition to whatever other game killed it, the similarities of games are of no problem for me like say Century: Spice Road killing Splendor, I own both and like them both.
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killerjoe1962 wrote:
For me, personally, I "get" what you mean with this topic but I'll still play whatever game I have in addition to whatever other game killed it, the similarities of games are of no problem for me like say Century: Spice Road killing Splendor, I own both and like them both.


For me it's only something I can find out over time. I'd say a game "kills" another game if whenever I feel like playing that type of game, I always pick game B and never pick game A.

The only game I have in my collection that did that for sure was Tides of Madness, which added the madness mechanism to the original Tides of Time idea. I think the game is just better with this additional twist, taking it from an interesting puzzle to a set of really interesting decisions. So for me, ToM "killed" ToT, as I'll never pick the latter over the former.
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Trevor Taylor
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For me, games don't really KILL games. However, I will often play a game and think, now whenever I have the opportunity to play it, I'd rather play this other game instead.

It's not really something quantifiable, or even limit to mechanisms. It might simply be the feel of the game.

I own both Paperback and Hardback. They're both word based deck builders. However, not only do look pretty next to each other on the shelf, they also feel different enough and cater to different groups for me. So I keep both.

I had Arctic Scavengers, then received Vikings Gone Wild. They are both deck builders, but with extremely different themes. But the combat mechanisms felt similar for me. I decided I would always prefer to play the latter and so I moved on the former.

I own Wok Star. I really like real-time co-op games. So I tend to try most of them. However, I will nearly always choose Project: ELITE, FUSE, Flatline or Escape: The Curse of the Temple over it these days. So I'm looking to move it on now.

Also, I want to try both Kitchen Rush and A Tale of Pirates. I'll probably only want to own one of them though.

The only true death in my collection was digital apps replacing a physical game (for various reasons) Ascension: Chronicle of the Godslayer replaced Ascension: Deckbuilding Game utterly for me. Same with Lords of Waterdeep and Sentinels of the Multiverse.
 
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The fact that "kills" like any other form of judgement is relative is not what the OP is questioning and is not very interesting.

The question is about deciding to upgrade or not if there is a game out there that you know or at least suspect will kill for you a game you already own
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Trevor Schadt
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Oldman20 wrote:
But for a person who has to buy a game, it is somewhat trickier. Do I get a better return for my hard earned gaming dollars by getting a game that is very different from something I already own or should I spend my money "upgrading" an experience that right now I enjoy for free?
This is one of those situations where it's good to have a local game group -- say through Meetup or something similar -- or a convention or something, where you can go and see if someone has a copy that you can "try before you buy." Give the new game a shot and see if it's that much better. Ask yourself: given the choice between these two games, when can I see myself choosing A versus B? If I'm playing one, will I enjoy it less if I had had the option of playing the other instead?

Right now, it seems like you're kind of stuck in FOMO. You want the new one because you've heard it's "so much better" and you don't want to be missing that experience, but you're at least being responsible enough to balance it against the financial outlay of "but I'd have to spend the money on it" rather than going straight Igor "IT MUST BE MINE!!!"

Oldman20 wrote:
For example, I got Scythe for Christmas last year and I expect it will be an Eclipse killer for me.
Hey, best of both worlds: you got the new game and didn't have to pay for it!

Oldman20 wrote:
However, a game I play all the time, like say Vast, I would be unlikely to upgrade if someone told me they had a Vast killer. I don't need something similar but slightly better. It would need to be a lot better.
I'm jealous; I seem to enjoy Vast far more than most of the people I game with, so I keep trying to get it to the table and it's met with a universal "Meh."

Oldman20 wrote:
Also, how much of the excitement is that it is new? I like opening a new game and reading the rules and figuring out the "new" elements of a game. However, after I have figured it out, it might basically just fall back into the same category as the old game I just "killed." Any game with a slight twist adds freshness to the experience and my "old game killer" is now likely to be killed itself by another slight variation.
This is why having a gaming meetup group can be a real boon. You can go and try new things, get that thrill of exploring the game space, and figure out if it's something that you'll want to play enough to add to your collection.
 
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wombat929 wrote:
For me it's only something I can find out over time. I'd say a game "kills" another game if whenever I feel like playing that type of game, I always pick game B and never pick game A.


I think this sums it up best. If given a choice between the two games, you will only choose one of them, that's a pretty compelling argument.

That said, there is another option, which is to just never get rid of any game
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For me, it’s only for those cases where I am playing games specifically for the simulation that the more fun game or one that is easier to get to the table can kill the other one trying to simulate the same thing.

I’m a big cycling fan and always in search of the cycling board game that best simulates a real Tour while still very playable. While Leader 1 and Tour Cycle Free are better simulations than Flamme Rouge, Flamme Rouge is way easier to get people to play with me AND is still really fun for me and very customizable to tweak the simulation factor a bit more. So I still have the former 2, but they’ve basically been killed by Flamme Rouge.

I could see something similar happening in the case of wargames, if I was deeper into them. How many different games do I need of a specific conflict?

For Euros, I don’t get that “killing” aspect. I just buy or keep the ones I like better. I don’t use Jones theory or have these niches like “only 1 worker placement” or “only 1 deck builder.” Each Euro stands on its own - maybe I’ll have many wp games if they’re all awesome.
 
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About 10%.
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I've found that I don't think of "game spaces" in the same way as most people on BGG. Sure, I have my two worker placement games I really like, so I'm not super keen to get more, but I don't tend to think of one game killing off another because of this.

I think of games as similar if I would bring them out in similar situations, regardless of if they are similar mechanically. For instance, about once a Quarter I'll get together with my brother who lives a few hours away and we'll play games over the weekend. I have some two player games in my (small) collection, and that is mostly where I play them. If I got a new two player only game, it will mean one that I already own probably won't get played.

Thus, my collection breaks down in my mind into situations where I pull out games (game groups, larger groups of casual gamers, my brother and I). If I find a game that plays really well in one of those situations, I know I am going to want to play it over what I used to bring out in that situation, so I will probably ditch the other one.
 
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Stephen Miller
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For me? Not much better... But it has to be at least equal to the first game in every respect. If there's anything the first game does better - Plays better at a specific player count, takes 15 minutes less time so I can fit it in in more situations, is an easier teach? Then the better game doesn't kill the first for me. In Magic The Gathering terms, a game has to be Strictly Better - there are no situations, even niche, where I'd ever be better off playing the other for me to describe it as having killed another game, but I don't require it being in another league, just always a single place higher would be enough if the first game wasn't better than the second at anything.

(Saying that I'm not going to buy a game if it's just slightly better than one I already own but there are zero situations I'd want to play the one I already have over it)
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