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Subject: Solo Game Question rss

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Jesse B
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I just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly. It looks like during the Neutral turn, the southern wind votes on the weather AND as long as there is one harvest icon showing, decrease a harvest die by one. In contrast during the players turn, you have to choose between placing a vote on a weather space OR decreasing a harvest die (Pg 7 of rule book). Is that correct?
 
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Garry Rice
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yes...unless you take a second action on your turn (like you can in the multiplayer game). Then you can vote with the first action and reduce a harvest die with the second if you'd like. Or place two votes...or reduce a harvest die twice...etc.
 
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David Turczi
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garry_rice wrote:
yes...unless you take a second action on your turn (like you can in the multiplayer game). Then you can vote with the first action and reduce a harvest die with the second if you'd like. Or place two votes...or reduce a harvest die twice...etc.


Yup, that's exactly what the bot is simulating. It basically takes 2 "dumb" turns (when playing with the expert variants), which is calibrated to be as useful as about 1.5 of your turns. So sometimes you'll have to play 1 action, sometimes 2 to beat it.
 
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Ethan Furman
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TDaver wrote:
It basically takes 2 "dumb" turns (when playing with the expert variants)...

That doesn't make any sense. In the standard variant the Neutral Player sometimes votes twice, same as the expert variant -- what are you trying to say here?
 
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David Turczi
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stoneleaf wrote:
TDaver wrote:
It basically takes 2 "dumb" turns (when playing with the expert variants)...

That doesn't make any sense. In the standard variant the Neutral Player sometimes votes twice, same as the expert variant -- what are you trying to say here?


I specifically said "when using the expert variants".

In the standard variant you can easily beat it on normal actions, to compensate the bot cheats, sometimes voting twice.

Also, be nice please.
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Garry Rice
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TDaver wrote:
stoneleaf wrote:
TDaver wrote:
It basically takes 2 "dumb" turns (when playing with the expert variants)...

That doesn't make any sense. In the standard variant the Neutral Player sometimes votes twice, same as the expert variant -- what are you trying to say here?


I specifically said "when using the expert variants".

In the standard variant you can easily beat it on normal actions, to compensate the bot cheats, sometimes voting twice.

Also, be nice please.


I'm a bit confused with what you are saying here. The bot almost always votes twice (4/8) or votes once and reduces a die once (2/8) whether you are playing with a variant or not. The AI takes just one action on two cards.

I realize you are the designer and have doubtless mastered the solo variant , but in my one play I was getting hammered by the AI when I was trying to play just one action each turn. I closed the gap when I started taking two actions every turn - the bot seemed too strong otherwise. Granted perhaps I'm missing something with just 1 game, but the bot sure felt strong compared to my measly little action that I can do when playing the standard solo game.
 
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Nick Shaw
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Beating the bot pushes you to take 2 actions per turn whenever possible, even if they're sub-optimal to your strategy. You have to adapt the strategy to be more tactical, much like multiplayer when someone screws up your plans by interacting with a cloud or tile with your drops on.

The bot is very aggressive on voting, but pretty dumb on how it plays actions. It does push your clouds away from higher scoring tiles (and its own towards those tiles) but otherwise it's doing fairly random things on the fields. Utilise that. You want to score enough on the harvests to counteract its likely high voting wins scores.

Also remember weather effect spots that don't activate at a round end will be much more likely to activate the next round. You might want to try doubling down on ones the bot has less votes on in one round to give yourself more chance to win those the next round.
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Ethan Furman
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garry_rice wrote:
yes...unless you take a second action on your turn (like you can in the multiplayer game). Then you can vote with the first action and reduce a harvest die with the second if you'd like. Or place two votes...or reduce a harvest die twice...etc.

TDaver wrote:
Yup, that's exactly what the bot is simulating. It basically takes 2 "dumb" turns (when playing with the expert variants)...

stoneleaf wrote:
That doesn't make any sense.

TDaver wrote:
I specifically said "when using the expert variants".

But you were answering a question about the normal mode in which the bot plays one card and votes twice, and the player plays two cards and votes twice. Switching to talking about a variant was not helpful in clarifying why the normal mode bot usually gets two actions when playing one card. (An action, in this case, being a vote or modifying a harvest die.)

TDaver wrote:
In the standard variant you can easily beat it on normal actions, to compensate the bot cheats, sometimes voting twice.

Not sometimes, 50% of the time, with 25% being one vote and one harvest die. And that response would have been much more helpful than the one you actually gave.
 
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David Turczi
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stoneleaf wrote:

Not sometimes, 50% of the time, with 25% being one vote and one harvest die. And that response would have been much more helpful than the one you actually gave.


Sorry. I'll try to be more helpful next time
 
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Jesse B
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Thank you Garry and David for your posts - helped remind me of the two actions I can take my turn. David - Such an interesting idea for a game, I look forward to playing more!
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Ethan Furman
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TDaver wrote:
Sorry. I'll try to be more helpful next time


Thank you.
 
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Sara Bear
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TDaver wrote:
stoneleaf wrote:
TDaver wrote:
It basically takes 2 "dumb" turns (when playing with the expert variants)...

That doesn't make any sense. In the standard variant the Neutral Player sometimes votes twice, same as the expert variant -- what are you trying to say here?


I specifically said "when using the expert variants".

In the standard variant you can easily beat it on normal actions, to compensate the bot cheats, sometimes voting twice.


Thanks for all this information, Dave (and Nick, too), I find it very useful after my first play last night.

Although my version of what I am doing for the AI actions changes things, I draw a colored teardrop for which card action it's going to do, and if I don't draw a Reshuffle, I draw a much smaller piece, of which there are 7 clear,,and two green, because that was the distribution of harvest to non harvest. Maybe I should remove one clear, yeah, because the Reshuffle doesn't count.

Anyway, I draw one of each type of drop, and see if I have a harvest to add that turn. Color distribution is as follows for actions - light blue, add one drop. Cobalt blue, add two drops. Red, take a drop away, it's red because it's like getting wounded, kind of. It's attacking you, directly wounding your progress. Clear, for the Add a new cloud frost action, because I've is closest to that. Two yellow drops, for the two Sun actions . . ., Purple, for the mixed move wind, because purple is a mix of two primary colors. Green, also a mix, but I think of it for the pure wind move, because my opponent is mother nature, and also natural things are felt to be more pure. Currently using opaque black for reshuffle, everything else is translucent.

So the harvest actions have become separated from the card, though funnily enough I often drew a green harvest, with a yellow Sun action. I do not shuffle between rounds, only when black is drawn. A couple times I had a really long lineup of drops, and once black was last out of the bag. This does make what I have pulled for AI public information, but people could remember that anyway, and I have so many conditions it probably makes me more even with other people's memories. I can always dump them in a far corner of the plastic microwave muffin cup tray I am using to hold bits, which I can't easily see into, if I need to change this.

These were the colors of drops in several teardrop cabochon variety packs I purchased. They did need to have a little filing work done on them. They look fantastic, though.

I think taking out that seventh clear, will help the harvest rate a touch. I was learning so many things,,and getting several things wrong, I am not surprised this needs a tweak. Still, a little easier on first game isn't a horrible thing. I barely won this asterisk game by one point, though when I realized the last of my ongoing errors, there was just one round left, so I kept playing the way I had been, so the score is at least valid within the consistency of play, like I was playing a variant.

Really gone astray from the topic, but wanted to thank you for the information here, because it helps pull together some stuff I was wondering about during and after play. I just need to make myself a small key for the AI draw, mostly to remember how many voting tokens go with each. The Sun draws might be an issue of balancing which card's icons I use. I drew Sun and green harvest often enough together, I played the Sun and clear draws as the other card's icons . Which may work, but what if I never draw yellow and harvest together in a game, am I always forced to two Sun votes with a yellow draw, then? I may need to choose a different color drop for one of the Sun cards . . .

Edit: I have light pink and an intense pink. I could think of it as sunrise or sunset, pretty colors, to help with the drop color having an easy to remember reason it is what it 's. Too bad I don't have orange, though. Light pink being the one vote,,and intense pink being the two vote one.
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