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Commands & Colors: Napoleonics» Forums » Rules

Subject: Light Lancers against Squares rss

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Joe Keller
United States
Arlington
Texas
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When a Light Lancer unit attacks infantry in square and rolls its one die and gets a flag, does it get to re-roll the die, and also count the second roll?

Thanks for your help.
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Mark Benson
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Yes, I think, because no exception is called out either in the lancer characteristics or in the rules for squares.
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Mark McG
Australia
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the general rule is that square rules trump unit abilities like Cuirassiers ignoring flags, but I confess I don't know on this one.
 
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Bill Massey
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That is the way my group plays it.
 
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Dan Zachary
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All defer to others for the definitive ruling.

That said, lancers would seem to be the one cavalry unit that should be allowed to use its flag reroll bonus.
 
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Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
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As they are written, I think the rules are clear that an ordered Lancer will reroll all dice with flag faces one time for additional effects, except against Cuirassiers.

A Lancer cannot ignore a bounce flag for any reason (including Iron Will, as stated in the FAQ). But if the Lancer is not bounced out of the hex it is attacking from nor is eliminated, it'll roll its one die and reroll it for an additional effect if it rolls a flag. Other than reducing the cavalry to one die in melee (or possibly zero dice, thanks to terrain considerations) and forcing retreat effects with bounce flags, I'm not seeing where a Lancer loses its reroll ability when fighting against squares.

I think where it gets hairy is with combined arms. The rules for combined arms say that all dice are added together into one roll and the rules for Lancers say that all dice that roll flags are rerolled one time for additional effects.

The rules specifically say that ordered squares taking part in combined arms combat treat all flags rolled as bounce flags. And also that units in a combined arms attack that normally do/do not hit on sabers in melee will still hit/not hit on sabers in a combined arms roll. Lancers aren't specifically referenced in combined arms attacks nor in any examples that I can find, but if the rules for Lancers and the procedure for combined arms combat are consistent, I think the Lancers would keep their reroll ability for that, too.

References:
• Russian Light Lancer Cavalry: GMT, p.5
• Bounce Flag: Rules of Play, 2d ed., p.18
• Combined Arms Combat Procedure: Rules of Play, 2d ed., p.19

That's my honest assessment of what the rules say. Let me know what I missed, but the references seem to me to be the best places to find the answer. I previously thumbed the post that I thought gave the succinct and correct answer, but I wouldn't stand between what two people agree to do at their own table. Richard Borg is the only person I know that could offer a definitive ruling.

FWIW, rerolling dice is not the same thing as adding dice, IMHO. The Lancers are rerolling dice for added effects, as the rules states, not rolling more dice. They are definitely rolling more dice thanks to combined arms and that doesn't rely on card play. But combined arms combat pools the dice that are permitted to be rolled and distinguishes between the units involved only at the time the dice for each participating unit is calculated. After that, its all one throw issued by the attacking unit in melee contact.
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Michael Dippel
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Rheinhausen
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Quote:
As they are written, I think the rules are clear that an ordered Lancer will reroll all dice with flag faces one time for additional effects, except against Cuirassiers.


exact and his remarks is nothing left to be added!
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Guillaume Gleize
France
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We didn't reroll for years as for us the squares cancel any cavalry special capacity:

"Combat cards and unit type will
not increase the number of battle dice the cavalry unit may roll
against the square."


And for us when you reroll a dice: It's actually a second roll! So this increase the number of dice rolled.
So we don't pretend to be true (english is not our language) and will play the other way if any official answer but the texts are actually confusing for us.

PS: To be said I love your way of playing guys because this poor lonely lancers units can at least show here another little advantage and specificity: Square breakers!
 
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Minot
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GGleize wrote:


And for us when you reroll a dice: It's actually a second roll! So this increase the number of dice rolled.


I do not see a "re-roll" as being the same thing as adding another die. The square does not cancel all of a cavalry unit's abilities, only limits its ability to inflict casualties. As the number of die rolled initially, and that could be re-rolled, is still capped at one, I would argue square rules are not violated by re-rolling.
 
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Giulio
Italy
Scandiano
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Personally, I'd appreciate some official ruling on this. None of the conclusive arguments above sound conclusive to me, in either direction.
 
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Mark Benson
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Bayernkini has relayed an answer from Richard Borg...

https://www.commandsandcolors.net/napoleonics/forum-main/5-r...

"Q: Does a Lancer get a reroll against a Infantry in square, if he roll a flag with his die?

A: Yes - A lancer unit will reroll a flag when attacking a square (including flags of combined attack)

Richard Borg; 2018-06-24"

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