Rusty McFisticuffs
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(I posted about this in Complaints over a year ago, but it keeps happening, so I'm trying Suggestions instead.)

The problem

A new user posts something in Chit Chat which might be spam. Some people there write funny replies; others flag the thread as spam. After some hours of this, an admin sees that it's a freshly-created account whose sole activity is posting one thread which has been flagged as spam, so they nuke the whole account & its thread(s) without realizing that non-spam posts are getting nuked too.

This causes us to lose some really good original user content.

Some solutions

1. Don't reply to threads which might be spam. I hate this. When someone reads something which inspires them to write a funny reply, I want them to go with it. I don't want them to have to think, "well, an admin might delete my content again, so why bother." I also don't think people replying to something mid-thread should have to evaluate whether the OP is something which will cause the whole thread to be deleted.

2. When you think a thread might be spam, and you want to reply, copy the spam into a new thread. I hate this too: for one thing, you don't necessarily know whether other users are going to think it's spam. (The one on Friday didn't have any links, and didn't name any specific web sites or products; it was weird.) For another thing, having potentially multiple copies of the same spam posted by real user accounts will probably enrage the people who think other users' original content should be deleted as long as spam gets deleted too.* And when you guess wrong--when it wasn't spam--we wind up with 2+ copies of a thread where everyone really wanted just one.

3. Instead of deleting spam threads, move them to some other forum. (I suggest calling it "200 Yahoo boots," but "spam" would be fine too.) Maybe threads with no replies get no-kidding-deleted after n days, or maybe threads with non-spam content get moved back to Chit Chat if enough people flag them wrong-forum? (Although maybe people would flag them as spam again? I don't know.)

4. Instead of deleting spam threads, delete spam posts. This is my favorite solution (and I assumed this was going to happen to Friday's thread). (I thought this is what happens now when users request account deletion; am I wrong about that, or are spam accounts deleted differently?)

5. Adjust the admin spam-deletion tool to give the admin some indication that there have been replies in the thread(s) which are about to be deleted; seeing that, the admin can review those specific threads and decide not to delete them.

6. Adjust the admin spam-deletion process to have the admin manually review all threads which are about to be deleted. This works for me... but without knowing how much time admins spend on spam in a day, I'm guessing that making it more time-consuming, for infrequent benefit, isn't plan A.

Thoughts?



* Enraging these people is fine with me, of course, but if I can use their rage to get what I want, then win-win!
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J J
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kuhrusty wrote:
A new user posts something in Chit Chat which might be spam. Some people there write funny replies; others flag the thread as spam. After some hours of this, an admin sees that it's a freshly-created account whose sole activity is posting one thread which has been flagged as spam, so they nuke the whole account & its thread(s) without realizing that non-spam posts are getting nuked too.


No, they do realise - see below.

Quote:
4. Instead of deleting spam threads, delete spam posts. This is my favorite solution (and I assumed this was going to happen to Friday's thread). (I thought this is what happens now when users request account deletion; am I wrong about that, or are spam accounts deleted differently?)


I can't be bothered locating Octavian's post right now, but he has detailed how it works in the past, and the standard option when deleting spam deliberately wipes all trace of threads they started. This isn't accidental, nor is it not realised that it happens.

Given that this request has fallen on deaf ears already... perhaps you ought to subscribe to the naughty list; that way you'll at least get some indication of whether or not a spam thread has come to the attention of the admins (I'm reasonably sure that most spam is reported by LASHers, rather than being spotted in the wild by admins or via the flagging process), in which case it might be time to start copying and pasting. I foolishly neglected to make a copy of your thread the other day when I had a damned good idea what might happen because it was late and I was tired.

Also, install Lazarus. Every post made in the last several weeks would have been saved.
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I like option 5, but +1 for Lazarus.
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Yahoo boots got deleted. They can restore it. Just beg!
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vandemonium wrote:
Yahoo boots got deleted. They can restore it. Just beg!


Offer them one of your uhm, I was gonna say kidneys, but given the nature of the original spam post, how about 'remaining
Spoiler (click to reveal)
testes'
?? whistle
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vandemonium wrote:
Yahoo boots got deleted. They can restore it. Just beg!


Good idea - make it a straight swap. Rusty's hilarity back for that foetid pile of dingos kidneys deleted.
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If the spam is so lovely that it needs a response and extended valuable conversations, make a new thread and link it in a reply to the spam.

Also, there already is a Spam folder. My subscription rarely goes off, but there have been some entertaining exchanges in there. Threads subject to summary deletion without notice.
 
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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tumorous wrote:
If the spam is so lovely that it needs a response and extended valuable conversations, make a new thread and link it in a reply to the spam.

That's option #2 (only, if you're creating a second thread because you think the first one might get deleted, there's no point in linking to it; you'd copy the spam into your thread). Are you sure you want that?

kuhrusty wrote:
2. When you think a thread might be spam, and you want to reply, copy the spam into a new thread. I hate this too: for one thing, you don't necessarily know whether other users are going to think it's spam. (The one on Friday didn't have any links, and didn't name any specific web sites or products; it was weird.) For another thing, having potentially multiple copies of the same spam posted by real user accounts will probably enrage the people who think other users' original content should be deleted as long as spam gets deleted too.* And when you guess wrong--when it wasn't spam--we wind up with 2+ copies of a thread where everyone really wanted just one.
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Yeah. Consider that 99.3% of BGG Suggestions receive zero admin response.

Try it and see.
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tumorous wrote:
Yeah. Consider that 99.3% of BGG Suggestions receive zero admin response.

Try it and see.


C'mon... BGG is the Island of Dr. Moreau and only a portion of his lab experiments are recognized at this point.

Imagine being an Admin, armed only with a pellet gun, having to wade through the thick underbrush. At any moment, you could lose your life, mind, or both.

This is how Monnin must feel every, single morning.

Therefore, I feel for him, because I got'ta heart. Furthermore, there isn't a paycheck big enough that Aldie could cut me to do that thankless job.
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tumorous wrote:
If the spam is so lovely that it needs a response and extended valuable conversations, make a new thread and link it in a reply to the spam.


If the spam is obvious, then that could be an option. But what do you do for the far less obvious ones? In the particular case involving Kuhrusty's fabulously entertaining thread, it really wasn't obvious it was spam:



It's just a question from a new user, no links, no sales push, no prices listed, just a question. Yes, a seemingly out-of-place question, but then 99% of Geek Questions could be similarly grouped. In fact, we've had many similarly weird, seemingly out-of-place queries from new users, in Chit Chat, in the past that haven't been deleted. Regular users have created "anonymous" accounts to ask relationship questions that they didn't want linked back to their user profiles, people from RSP have popped in to riotously joke in an anonymized manner that won't 'sully their bully' reputation down in the geek's hellhole, etc.

Just because a few users tag something as spam doesn't necessarily mean that it is actually spam. There needs to be some admin eyes on the thread, not just an auto-deletion process. We've had new user emotional cries for help posted in Chit Chat in the past, and serious answers to crises hotlines and advice were given, along with smile-inducing jocular virtual hugs, that were later thanked by those same users. A thread like that could have saved lives, but it can't if the same thread were auto-deleted just because a few users tagged it for being upsetting, out-of-place spam-ish.

Yeah, cases like that don't happen all the time, but as I said above, I really couldn't tell if the original "testosterone" poster was a spammer or just someone new twigging that Chit Chat is a funny space and jumping in with both feet.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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kuhrusty wrote:
(I posted about this in Complaints over a year ago, but it keeps happening, so I'm trying Suggestions instead.)

Posting in Suggestions does not seem to have helped.
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kuhrusty wrote:
kuhrusty wrote:
(I posted about this in Complaints over a year ago, but it keeps happening, so I'm trying Suggestions instead.)

Posting in Suggestions does not seem to have helped.
Clearly you need to escalate further. Should you start making telephone calls to the BGG admins/owners, or go straight to showing up on their doorstep at 3AM and demanding that they hear you out?
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kuhrusty wrote:
kuhrusty wrote:
(I posted about this in Complaints over a year ago, but it keeps happening, so I'm trying Suggestions instead.)

Posting in Suggestions does not seem to have helped.


My overall feeling is that you have no idea how much trash spam LASH deletes. The point is to discourage the spammers. LASH has done that well. I say don't fool with something that has and is working.

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herace wrote:
My overall feeling is that you have no idea how much trash spam LASH deletes.

That's easy to fix: how much trash spam does LASH delete?

herace wrote:
The point is to discourage the spammers. LASH has done that well. I say don't fool with something that has and is working.

First, I don't understand what you're saying. LASH has done a good job of discouraging spammers, and therefore there's very little spam to delete? Or there's still such a high volume of spam that it's impractical or excessively burdensome to manually review spam threads before deleting them--in which case, how do you mean spammers have been discouraged?

Second--and more importantly--users are discouraged too when their original content gets deleted. Repeatedly raising the issue and proposing solutions hasn't changed anything, which is also discouraging.
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kuhrusty wrote:
herace wrote:
My overall feeling is that you have no idea how much trash spam LASH deletes.

That's easy to fix: how much trash spam does LASH delete?


See The Naughty List
 
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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herace wrote:
kuhrusty wrote:
herace wrote:
My overall feeling is that you have no idea how much trash spam LASH deletes.

That's easy to fix: how much trash spam does LASH delete?

See The Naughty List

A handful a day?? That volume is too heavy to keep users' original content from getting deleted!?

You gave the impression that there was a lot; I've been giving admins the benefit of the doubt, that they've been accidentally deleting users' content... but this sounds more like someone decided that hours of my & other users' time is worth five minutes of a spammer's. If that's the case, I can save us all some time and quit fucking posting.
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kuhrusty wrote:
herace wrote:
kuhrusty wrote:
herace wrote:
My overall feeling is that you have no idea how much trash spam LASH deletes.

That's easy to fix: how much trash spam does LASH delete?

See The Naughty List

A handful a day?? That volume is too heavy to keep users' original content from getting deleted!?

You gave the impression that there was a lot; I've been giving admins the benefit of the doubt, that they've been accidentally deleting users' content... but this sounds more like someone decided that hours of my & other users' time is worth five minutes of a spammer's. If that's the case, I can save us all some time and quit fucking posting.


Why on earth would you have been thinking any of it was accidental? Did I stutter?
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kuhrusty wrote:
If that's the case, I can save us all some time and quit fucking posting.

If only there were some more permanent places to post content at BGG other than as comments to spammers' posts!
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kuhrusty wrote:
herace wrote:
kuhrusty wrote:
herace wrote:
My overall feeling is that you have no idea how much trash spam LASH deletes.

That's easy to fix: how much trash spam does LASH delete?

See The Naughty List

A handful a day?? That volume is too heavy to keep users' original content from getting deleted!?

You gave the impression that there was a lot; I've been giving admins the benefit of the doubt, that they've been accidentally deleting users' content... but this sounds more like someone decided that hours of my & other users' time is worth five minutes of a spammer's. If that's the case, I can save us all some time and quit fucking posting.


I think you miss an important point. The spammers aren't discouraged just because a post is deleted, but rather because the post and account are deleted quickly.
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