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Subject: Rules clarifications please rss

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Matthew Burgess
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I just had a couple of things that needed clarifying after my first couple of games, please:

1) The Eiffel Tower reads "End game scoring: Gain 1 culture icon for every 2 industry icons you have." Seeing as all non-culture icons score half a point at the end of the game anyway, does this mean you score industry icons twice?

2) How do you gain 'The Future' card? Obviously you can't gain it through 'complete' because the game is over as soon as it enters the market, which means you can't bid on it and you also can't snipe it. So is the only way to gain this card to use something like 'Christopher Columbus' ("Turn Action: Remove this card from the game, you gain the top card of the Civilisation deck") and just hope you're lucky enough that it's your turn when 'The Future' is the last card in the deck?

3) Can you take a card and then choose not to use the Instant Action (permanently losing that one-off ability)?

4) Attack icons measure your strength when attacking.
Attack and Defence icons measure your strength when defending.
Culture icons give 1:1 points.
Harvest icons indicate how many coins to transfer from the reserve to the supply when you Harvest.
Trade icons indicate how many coins you take from the supply when you've been sniped (before then also taking half rounded down).
Which leaves Science and Industry tokens; do they have any 'special abilities' besides awarding completion bonuses?

5) Obvious question, but just want to check: When there are no cards missing from the market (i.e. after the first player's first turn) do you ignore the Clean Up phase? (there's nothing to clean up!)

Many thanks
 
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Andy Van Zandt
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mattpburgess wrote:
I just had a couple of things that needed clarifying after my first couple of games, please:

1) The Eiffel Tower reads "End game scoring: Gain 1 culture icon for every 2 industry icons you have." Seeing as all non-culture icons score half a point at the end of the game anyway, does this mean you score industry icons twice?
Correct.

Quote:
2) How do you gain 'The Future' card? Obviously you can't gain it through 'complete' because the game is over as soon as it enters the market, which means you can't bid on it and you also can't snipe it. So is the only way to gain this card to use something like 'Christopher Columbus' ("Turn Action: Remove this card from the game, you gain the top card of the Civilisation deck") and just hope you're lucky enough that it's your turn when 'The Future' is the last card in the deck?
Correct. The Future is often just a trigger, and is not usually acquired.

Quote:
3) Can you take a card and then choose not to use the Instant Action (permanently losing that one-off ability)?
Nope, you must resolve the instant and attack abilities when you get the card. It is not optional.

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4) Attack icons measure your strength when attacking.
Attack and Defence icons measure your strength when defending.
Culture icons give 1:1 points.
Harvest icons indicate how many coins to transfer from the reserve to the supply when you Harvest.
Trade icons indicate how many coins you take from the supply when you've been sniped (before then also taking half rounded down).
Which leaves Science and Industry tokens; do they have any 'special abilities' besides awarding completion bonuses?
Some cards look for these symbols. For example, science icons will earn you points if you get the Apollo Program, and will earn you resource tokens if you get the Printing Press.

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5) Obvious question, but just want to check: When there are no cards missing from the market (i.e. after the first player's first turn) do you ignore the Clean Up phase? (there's nothing to clean up!)
The phase still technically happens, but not much occurs during it.

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Many thanks
meeple
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Matthew Burgess
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Fantastic! Thank you Andy for such a quick response.

The implication of 3) then is that there is no way to avoid the 'Communism' card and having to share out your resource tokens at some point every game. I guess if you see it come out and you have the opportunity, spend your resources quick!
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Andy Van Zandt
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Yes, Communism is a pretty inescapable thing. The best defense against communism is to try to have an investment sitting on a card for which you have icons that match the investor bonus.

This does 2 things - you'll have already "spent" the money you invest in it, so communism doesn't take and disseminate those coins, and you might be able to get some money back from the investor bonus afterwards.
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Cyprien Galan
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Another question about communism :
Is the investor bonus relevant or is it a clever joke ( no capitalist would invest in communism thing ) ? Because in the rules, the investor bonus is granted before the effect is applied, which would mean that the money from the investor bonus would be reassigned equally as well as the other player resources.

Also about 2) The future. It is easier to get the the future with satellites in the 5th era. During a 3-player game, I went all-in when the satellite showed up and played as a sniper-harvester until I could complete and snatch 6 points from the future.
The thing is that it is not a viable strategy because opponent players could always scheme to snipe it from you / force end the game so you could not get the future ( and it sounds a bit silly too ).
 
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Andy Van Zandt
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Indeed, the investor bonus in Communism does not do its recipient a lot of economic good, as it is then just dispersed.

Definitely the fewer players there are, the more likely you could engineer an acquisition of The Future. At 4 and 5 it gets distinctly less likely.
 
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Paulo Terca
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A couple more questions:

truekid wrote:
Nope, you must resolve the instant and attack abilities when you get the card. It is not optional.


Can I get a card with an instant or attack ability which effect cannot be applied? (examples: Iron Works without any uninvested military card on the market, or Warriors without anyone with less military strength)

Btw, Warriors has only one defense. If the player doesn't have any attack icons is this one defense still considered "more military strength" than another player with neither attack or defense icons? Thematically it doesn't seem to make much sense, but I'd like to confirm.

truekid wrote:
Yes, Communism is a pretty inescapable thing. The best defense against communism is to try to have an investment sitting on a card for which you have icons that match the investor bonus.


So, if I understood correctly, if the icon on a card matches its investor bonus, it is counted towards that bonus, right? (example: Philosophy)

Thanks.
 
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Andy Van Zandt
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Yes, you can buy a card that has an ability that tries to resolve and fails. You just can't choose not to resolve it if the effect is actually do-able.

Defense icons do nothing for you as the attacker.

No, icons on a card don't count towards its own investor bonus. The order of resolution on the "complete" action is important - you'll move the investment into the supply, get the investor bonus, then gain the card (and then resolve instants/attacks). You don't own the card until after the investor bonus has already resolved.

meeple
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Sean Kelly
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Yeah, 1st play last night and I used Christopher Columbus’ action after 3 turns of harvesting the sweet, sweet resources the rest of the family had been dumping by investing high and not getting much back in the way of investor bonuses, meaning they were all broke and I was flush with resources. Darn Columbus goes and discovers Communism, redistributing my wealth across the board and ensuring my loss. I looked to see if I could avoid it but the rules were pretty specific on the fact that you MUST apply an instant effect on a card you add to your nation.
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Travis Bryant
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While rules are being clarified:

We were uncertain whether Investment Bonus payments came from Supply or Reserve. If it's the former, toward late game that's a double-whammy for people down the line: it gives the player receiving the bonus lots of money AND empties out the Supply.

Thanks!
 
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Andy Van Zandt
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sjkellyfetti wrote:
Yeah, 1st play last night and I used Christopher Columbus’ action after 3 turns of harvesting the sweet, sweet resources the rest of the family had been dumping by investing high and not getting much back in the way of investor bonuses, meaning they were all broke and I was flush with resources. Darn Columbus goes and discovers Communism, redistributing my wealth across the board and ensuring my loss. I looked to see if I could avoid it but the rules were pretty specific on the fact that you MUST apply an instant effect on a card you add to your nation.

That Columbus fellow is pretty shifty, you think he's being helpful and he turns around and destroys an entire civilization.

Quote:
We were uncertain whether Investment Bonus payments came from Supply or Reserve. If it's the former, toward late game that's a double-whammy for people down the line: it gives the player receiving the bonus lots of money AND empties out the Supply.

Very rarely do things come from the reserve. Only harvests and a couple of card effects do that.
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Brian Symington
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A question regarding Irrigation. The description says “Add two resource tokens ....” The icons show only a single token, like on Printing Press. Is the description correct (2 tokens)?
 
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Andy Van Zandt
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The cards are correct on those, the glossary is not. There are some errata slips in the files section that clarify that: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/161548/glossary-errat...

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Brian Symington
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truekid wrote:
The cards are correct on those, the glossary is not. There are some errata slips in the files section that clarify that: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/161548/glossary-errat...



Ah. Can I assume that would apply to “Working Animal” as well?
 
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Andy Van Zandt
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Yes, all three cards (Irrigation, Working Animal, and Mechanized Farming) have the same ability, and it's printed correctly on all the cards, but the glossary mis-describes it for Irrigation and Working Animal.
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Brian Symington
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Another question, please. When you invest, can you choose zero for the number of resource tokens you put under the card?

Played for the first time tonight - we enjoyed it!
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Paulo Renato
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I run through Rahdo's Runthroughs and make right what once went wrong (via annotations)
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No... investing requires that you use resources to invest... if you use 0 you aren't investing.
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