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Subject: Some Questions rss

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Willow Palecek
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My group has a few questions:

*Minor Mana Potion, Wand of Ice:
Is the element available for immediate use, or is it only activated at the end of the character's turn?

*Quest 520: If someone else loots that item, are you just out of luck until they retire or you can convince them to sell it?

*Monster Summons:
Do Summoned monsters use a normal standee for a monster, or one of the summon tokens?
Do Summoned monsters act immediately before their summoner with a Move +0/Attack +0, or do they get their own initiative card from the appropriate monster deck?

*The Adventure Booklet
In general, how much can I 'read ahead?' When doing a scenario, can I look at what is behind doors before opening them, or look at all the information about the scenario before selecting my powers?
Can I look at the resolution of a scenario before I attempt it to determine which scenario to do next? What about during a scenario if it has multiple outcomes (like the Volcano side-scenario?)
I find that during set up I often see this information, and I am not sure to what extent I should discuss it with the other players in advance, or wait until it comes up in play.

*Enhancement
What is doubled in cost for multi-target enhancements? Do extra hexes, level modifiers, or previous enhancements counted?
Do X cards count as 1st level cards?

*Mindthief
If a Mindthief is attacking with the level 9 augment that consumes Darkness, or the lower level one that consumes ice, and is using this on a multi-target attack, does the elemental infusion effect only apply to one target, or all of them?

Thanks!
 
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Matt Rossi
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WillowX wrote:
My group has a few questions:

*Minor Mana Potion, Wand of Ice:
Is the element available for immediate use, or is it only activated at the end of the character's turn?

*Quest 520: If someone else loots that item, are you just out of luck until they retire or you can convince them to sell it?

*Monster Summons:
Do Summoned monsters use a normal standee for a monster, or one of the summon tokens?
Do Summoned monsters act immediately before their summoner with a Move +0/Attack +0, or do they get their own initiative card from the appropriate monster deck?

*The Adventure Booklet
In general, how much can I 'read ahead?' When doing a scenario, can I look at what is behind doors before opening them, or look at all the information about the scenario before selecting my powers?
Can I look at the resolution of a scenario before I attempt it to determine which scenario to do next? What about during a scenario if it has multiple outcomes (like the Volcano side-scenario?)
I find that during set up I often see this information, and I am not sure to what extent I should discuss it with the other players in advance, or wait until it comes up in play.

*Enhancement
What is doubled in cost for multi-target enhancements? Do extra hexes, level modifiers, or previous enhancements counted?
Do X cards count as 1st level cards?

*Mindthief
If a Mindthief is attacking with the level 9 augment that consumes Darkness, or the lower level one that consumes ice, and is using this on a multi-target attack, does the elemental infusion effect only apply to one target, or all of them?

Thanks!


1: They are not available for immediate use. Elements must exist prior to your turn to be usable. Element creation is pending until the end of the current turn. This is why it's possible to consume an already existing element on the same turn as you make that element again.

2: Yes. You will have to wait until you can acquire it

3 and 4: Monster summons and character summons are entirely different. The only shared aspects is that they don't activate on the turn they are created and they don't drop money tokens. Monster summons use whatever standee (usually normal) that it says. They behave exactly like other monsters of that type after the turn they are summoned. They act on initiative according to their standee number and use the monster ability card.

5: There are a few differing opinions on this. For my group, I let everyone know everything that's on the list of used tiles and monsters (including what the traps do) and they know the layout of the first room as well as any intro text after starting the scenario. This is enough information to prevent picking terrible cards or battle goals that cannot be completed (No traps, for example)

6: X cards are level 1 for purposes of enhancement. Only the base-cost of an enhancement is doubled when doing the math for multi target abilities or summons. Additional hexes are never doubled. For example, if you want to put +1 attack on a multi-target ability that's level 2, you need 125g. 50g for the +1 to attack (doubled for multi-target) and 25g for the card being level 2. If the card action already had an enhancement on it the cost would be 200g (The first additional enhancement is +75).

7: Attacks and Attack Actions are different key words in this game. An attack is anything that would cause an attack modifier card to flip. (but decisions usually have to be made before you actually flip the card). If you have a Target 3 attack only one of the attacks can have the element consumed to kill the target (assuming that it's normal). This is based on my understanding of the card, but I don't have it in front of me. I believe it says "Attack" not "Attack Action"
 
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Byron S
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WillowX wrote:
My group has a few questions:

*Minor Mana Potion, Wand of Ice:
Is the element available for immediate use, or is it only activated at the end of the character's turn?

No. All element creation happens at the end of your turn.

WillowX wrote:
*Quest 520: If someone else loots that item, are you just out of luck until they retire or you can convince them to sell it?

Yup.

WillowX wrote:
*Monster Summons:
Do Summoned monsters use a normal standee for a monster, or one of the summon tokens?
Do Summoned monsters act immediately before their summoner with a Move +0/Attack +0, or do they get their own initiative card from the appropriate monster deck?
A normal standee, and behave as a normal monster when they activate.

WillowX wrote:
*The Adventure Booklet
In general, how much can I 'read ahead?' When doing a scenario, can I look at what is behind doors before opening them, or look at all the information about the scenario before selecting my powers?
Can I look at the resolution of a scenario before I attempt it to determine which scenario to do next? What about during a scenario if it has multiple outcomes (like the Volcano side-scenario?)
I find that during set up I often see this information, and I am not sure to what extent I should discuss it with the other players in advance, or wait until it comes up in play.

This is mostly up to you and your party. I often accidentally read spoilery things like rewards and upcoming monsters while setting up the scenario, but I only give my party information on what monsters and features will be in the scenario based on what's listed on the bottom of the page.

WillowX wrote:
*Enhancement
What is doubled in cost for multi-target enhancements? Do extra hexes, level modifiers, or previous enhancements counted?
Do X cards count as 1st level cards?

Only the base costs are doubled. The cost to add a hex isn't doubled; see the example on the bottom of the page. We've assumed the X cards count as 1, since you unlock them at level 1.

WillowX wrote:
*Mindthief
If a Mindthief is attacking with the level 9 augment that consumes Darkness, or the lower level one that consumes ice, and is using this on a multi-target attack, does the elemental infusion effect only apply to one target, or all of them?
As far as I know, just one attack.
 
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Any time you create an element, it is not available until the end of your turn. This means that if an element already exists, you can consume it and then recreate it on your turn. If you need elements, consider begging your local Scoundrel (or other low initiative character) to buy the Mana Potion.

My understanding is that you're out of luck until they retire or sell the axe.

Summoned monsters use a normal standee although you could certainly put one of the tokens on their slot of the card to mark them as a summon. Summoned monsters are exactly like any other monster of their type except that they don't drop coins upon death. Only player-summoned monsters piggyback on their masters' initiatives.

Different people have different opinions about how much knowledge you should have of the adventure. I believe that the scenarios were written with the expectation that you would know what monsters you'd be facing ahead of time. We generally avoid looking at the resolution of a scenario (or after any of the numbered reading points) until we actually get to that point.

Enhancement is hard, just use the calculator: http://thearcane.li/

If the element consumption is part of the attack action, it would affect all targets of that attack action. On the same note, if a monster consumes an element, all monsters of that type benefit from consuming that element.

Edit: I just looked up that level 9 Mindthief card and it looks to me like you can only consume it once to kill a single target (I mean, it says "kill one normal target instead").
 
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kornetmuse kornetmuse
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WarioMCP wrote:

7: Attacks and Attack Actions are different key words in this game. An attack is anything that would cause an attack modifier card to flip. (but decisions usually have to be made before you actually flip the card). If you have a Target 3 attack only one of the attacks can have the element consumed to kill the target (assuming that it's normal). This is based on my understanding of the card, but I don't have it in front of me. I believe it says "Attack" not "Attack Action"


I won't totally agree. It just say on melee attack not a single attack.

Though, the both cards are differents.

Frozen mind let you apply a stun on a melee attack ability.
So if you have attack 3 target 2. The both targets will be stun.

For phantasmal killer it's a bit different. it says kill 1 normal target instead.

So you transform you whole melee attack into a single auto kill.

So if you had attack 15 target 6. Instead of doing 6 attack with base 15, you will only auto kill one monster and doing no additional attacks.


Of course for both cards if you play instead a card that says

Attack 2
attack 2

Only one of the two attack could benefits the augment since the element is used for one ability.
 
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While Isaac has been very clear that "instead" means "instead", he has also been clear on the distinction between an "attack" and an "attack action". The card says, "On your melee attacks..." so I would assume that means that you can convert any individual attack into an instant kill by consuming dark while allowing any other attacks (from a multi-target attack action) to be resolved normally.
 
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kornetmuse kornetmuse
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he has also been clear on the distinction between an "attack" and an "attack action". The card says, "On your melee attacks..." so I would assume that means that you can convert any individual attack into an instant kill by consuming dark while allowing any other attacks (from a multi-target attack action) to be resolved normally.


regarding the FAQ for the term attack seems to make you right.

It feels so weird that sometimes he uses the term "single attack" though.
 
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A C
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With regards to reading ahead of the scenarios, there are apps that duplicate the Scenarios but have blocked off the stuff you should not read until you enter the door. When you click on the blockage, it goes away, revealing what you need to know.

I use the Gloomhaven Scenario Viewer
 
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Sabe Jones
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Oh man, that quest item thing is quite the friendship litmus test. I don't think I could keep playing with someone who would screw me over that hard. XD

As for the monster-summoned monsters, isn't it also the case that when you kill the summoner, the summons die?

ETA: It's really weird that you'd drink a potion to help somebody else cast a spell. Or to accidentally boost a demon's attack or something. It makes a certain sense for the wand, but the potion? Ludonarrative fail.
 
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I'm pretty sure that there's a really small label on those mana potions that reads "not for oral consumption" or something like that.

More seriously, I think that mana isn't exactly something that exists inside the caster in this scenario, rather they use their skill/ability to manipulate environmental mana. So, I've just assumed that they throw the potion down on the ground to release the essence of the element.
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Jay Johnson
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Elseleth wrote:
As for the monster-summoned monsters, isn't it also the case that when you kill the summoner, the summons die?

No, that is not true at all. Once a monster is summoned, it has zero connection with the monster that summoned it.

Elseleth wrote:
ETA: It's really weird that you'd drink a potion to help somebody else cast a spell. Or to accidentally boost a demon's attack or something. It makes a certain sense for the wand, but the potion? Ludonarrative fail.

maybe the person using it doesn't actually drink it. It is just somehow diffused around the room to infuse the battlefield with the elemental energy. Which takes some time to develop.
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Stefan Timm
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WarioMCP wrote:


If the card already had an enhancement on it the cost would be 200g (The first additional enhancement is +75).



You have to replace card with action to be correct.

Rulebook p. 46 wrote:

[...] Additional costs are added based on the level of the ability card and the number of previously placed enhancement stickers on the same action. [...]


You can enhance the top and bottom action of the card without additional costs.
If you want to enhance the top or bottom action more than once, then you have to pay the additional costs.
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Matt Rossi
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timmi84 wrote:
WarioMCP wrote:


If the card already had an enhancement on it the cost would be 200g (The first additional enhancement is +75).



You have to replace card with action to be correct.

Rulebook p. 46 wrote:

[...] Additional costs are added based on the level of the ability card and the number of previously placed enhancement stickers on the same action. [...]


You can enhance the top and bottom action of the card without additional costs.
If you want to enhance the top or bottom action more than once, then you have to pay the additional costs.


You are correct on this point. I knew this but sometimes I don't use the most accurate language. I'll edit my above post.
 
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Sabe Jones
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JayJ79 wrote:
Elseleth wrote:
As for the monster-summoned monsters, isn't it also the case that when you kill the summoner, the summons die?

No, that is not true at all. Once a monster is summoned, it has zero connection with the monster that summoned it.


Oh, wow. blush That's probably the biggest change there'll be to our game, from this thread! (I play at WillowX's table.) I wonder how we got the wrong idea? General expectation of load-bearing boss tropes? Erroneous extrapolation from what happens if a player character exhausts with a summon out? Tch..
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Probably the second one. You could have had that question and turned to the page in the rule book about summons and read about how they interact with their summoners, not realizing that passage is specifically about characters summoning things, not monsters summoning things.
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Matt Rossi
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Elseleth wrote:
JayJ79 wrote:
Elseleth wrote:
As for the monster-summoned monsters, isn't it also the case that when you kill the summoner, the summons die?

No, that is not true at all. Once a monster is summoned, it has zero connection with the monster that summoned it.


Oh, wow. blush That's probably the biggest change there'll be to our game, from this thread! (I play at WillowX's table.) I wonder how we got the wrong idea? General expectation of load-bearing boss tropes? Erroneous extrapolation from what happens if a player character exhausts with a summon out? Tch..


It's common for people to think about character summons and monster summons the same. Character summons are removed from the board when the controlling character dies. I think in the rule book both sections regarding summons are just called "Summons." They're in the relevant sections, but using the same language can be confusing.
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Jarred Caldwell
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WarioMCP wrote:
It's common for people to think about character summons and monster summons the same. Character summons are removed from the board when the controlling character dies. I think in the rule book both sections regarding summons are just called "Summons." They're in the relevant sections, but using the same language can be confusing.


Our table assumed the monster summons weren't connected to the summoner. Otherwise it would be a pain to try and track which summon was associated with which summoning monster. It was easier to just disconnect them.

Also, with all of our normal and elite monsters on the little stands, we decided to lay the summons down flat and not use a stand. That way we could easily see which monsters leave coins and which ones don't.
 
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michele c
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mgshamster wrote:

Also, with all of our normal and elite monsters on the little stands, we decided to lay the summons down flat and not use a stand. That way we could easily see which monsters leave coins and which ones don't.


What we do, which is often suggested on this forums, is placing a coin on the stat card envelope for monsters that are not summoned. In the same place where damage is placed.
 
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