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Subject: A New Dungeoneer Brainstorm rss

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Thomas Denmark
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What if you were on the design team tasked with creating a new, updated version of Dungeoneer? What would be the top things you'd want to see?

While this is hypothetical, I've toyed around with the idea, and am curious to hear from the player's perspective what you do and don't want to see in a new version. Let me get a few of the obvious ones out of the way:

All the components needed to play the game in the box!
Map cards as tiles, not cards

I'll start.
Less randomness and more strategy in combat. Meaning reducing the amount of luck in the dice. Such as custom dice that have a lower probability swing. Perhaps the numbers are: 0, 1, 1, 2, 2, *. The * is a special like get a Peril or Glory.
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Santi Velasco
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Really glad that you are considering this, I am a big fan of the game. I think it was my first dungeoncrawler back when I rediscovered the hobby, and although I have since gone through many others as Descent, etc., Dungeoneer still has its own special place, and I don't think there is anything like it out there.

Regarding your questions, please be aware I have no clue about game design, so there is a fair chance all mu suggestions plain suck:

- First of all, a big yes to map tiles instead of cards, sort of like Drakon or the D&D system (but not intelocked, they're a little annoying IMO)

- About dice, I am Ok with the current system, but again I have no problem with randomness. Maybe you could add other dice such as d12, d20? you know, for even more old school flavor

- One thing I think might be improved over the original is the way quests are handed; sometimes you just got lucky and completed your quest like in two rooms away from the exit. Although honestly I have no idea how you could address this.

- I think it would be very cool if monsters remained in the dungeon after played, like in Wiz-War. Again, no idea how to properly do that.

Well those are my two(ish) cents.
 
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John Mack
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tldenmark wrote:

Map cards as tiles, not cards


I never had a problem with the small cards as tiles, they look good. Except the English print of Den of the Wererats looked really bad.

For me the most important would be a rulebook that is easy to understand. The rules are simple but all the different rules revisions were hard to understand because of the writing.

A good solo rule would be great. For the moment there is just too much luck and not enough story emerging from the game to make it worth playing solo, but that's just my opinion.

Maybe traps could be resolved by taking a trap cards, that would make them more diverse.

I didn't like the rule were you have to discard a card at the end of your turn. You discover all the cards of the game much quickly in this way (not fun) and it's frustrating to not keep the good cards. It would be better if some effects/spells would force you to discard, sometimes (maybe there are some? i did not play since a long time).

Complexity should be kept roughly at the same level. There are a lot of dungeon crawler out there so Dungeoneer should focus on its strengths: the good glory/peril system, the transportable format and its customization potential (by mixing cards from different extensions).
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John Mack
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srcabeza wrote:

- One thing I think might be improved over the original is the way quests are handed; sometimes you just got lucky and completed your quest like in two rooms away from the exit. Although honestly I have no idea how you could address this.


I think there was an optional rule somewhere where if you draw a card from one of your quest, an another player place the card.
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tldenmark wrote:
Map cards as tiles, not cards


To be honest, I quite like map cards, especially since they keep the game (when stored) compact.

I'd love to see the idea you had to develop Dungeoneer scenarios take further shape, which could also mitigate some of the randomness inherent in card games like these that others have commented upon.
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Robert Ruescher
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tldenmark wrote:
What if you were on the design team tasked with creating a new, updated version of Dungeoneer? What would be the top things you'd want to see?

While this is hypothetical, I've toyed around with the idea, and am curious to hear from the player's perspective what you do and don't want to see in a new version. Let me get a few of the obvious ones out of the way:

All the components needed to play the game in the box!
Map cards as tiles, not cards

I'll start.
Less randomness and more strategy in combat. Meaning reducing the amount of luck in the dice. Such as custom dice that have a lower probability swing. Perhaps the numbers are: 0, 1, 1, 2, 2, *. The * is a special like get a Peril or Glory.


How big do you want the box to eventually be? Like OGRE?

Campaign system.
Standees for all heroes and monsters.
Dare I say it...miniatures...not really.
A bigger box for the above with card pack expansions, like Pathfinder, which would make miniatures difficult.
A complete rule book.
Revamping how quests are handled.
Components for what is needed to play the game.
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Rob Robinson
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A better laid out, proper, rulebook, a box big enough to hold all the necessary/provided counters, tokens, dice.

Not much more to add. Where do I sign up?
 
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Tyler
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tldenmark wrote:
What if you were on the design team tasked with creating a new, updated version of Dungeoneer? What would be the top things you'd want to see?


Easy wishes:
- A core game box with room to grow, a la the Pathfinder ACG
- A rule that evens out quest placement
- Campaign mode
- Solo mode

One alternative to rolling dice would be something like the Arkham Horror card game's skill pips, or the Shadow effects in the Lord of the Rings LCG. Imagine every card in the dungeon deck has a skill value in the corner, unrelated to the rest of the card. When a player would need a random result, they reveal the top card of the deck, check that value and discard the card.

So you could have whatever range of numerical results you wanted, potentially even negatives, as well as critical hit and critical fumble symbols, or whatever rules fit in the card's corner and a reference sheet.
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Santi Velasco
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DrFaust wrote:
One alternative to rolling dice would be something like the Arkham Horror card game's skill pips, or the Shadow effects in the Lord of the Rings LCG. Imagine every in the dungeon deck has a skill value in the corner, unrelated to the rest of the card. When a player would need a random result, they reveal the top card of the deck, check that value and discard the card.

So you could have whatever range of numerical results you wanted, potentially even negatives, as well as critical hit and critical fumble symbols, or whatever rules fit in the card's corner and a reference sheet.


That is exactly like Combat Commander, and I think that system could be very interesting to introduce random events. In CC:E, for those of you who don't know it, whenever there is a die roll, you flip up the top card in your deck and look at the bottom right corner, where there are dice results printed on every card. The clever part is, there is an "Event!" banner under some of those die results, and when you draw one of those, you must resolve a random event (another card draw) before you apply the die roll. I can tell you the system works like a charm, very dynamic.
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Chris G
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Mini's instead of the little cardboard cutouts or at least proper sized paper figs.

A proper readable rulebook. The rules are decipherable but despite several iterations they are still a mess.

Better method for combining various sets together and creating a full campaign.

proper solo rules. There's a rough hack out there, but could be better designed if considered from the ground up.
 
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DIMITRIOS KANOS
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Cooperative mode,
Solo mode,
More complicated quests (not just one roll, but more story and more tests),
Rulebook and adventure book,
Hero phase first, monster phase second, after the exploration of the new map,
Map tiles(dungeon, city and wilderness tiles),
New system for searching traps, secret doors, treasures,
New system for monster appearing (no peril and glory tokens),
No player's hand, but a backpack to keep the treasures you find by SEARCHING the tiles



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Rob Robinson
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IMHO this style of standee works just as well as plastic fig's.

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Tyler
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srcabeza wrote:
That is exactly like Combat Commander, and I think that system could be very interesting to introduce random events. In CC:E, for those of you who don't know it, whenever there is a die roll, you flip up the top card in your deck and look at the bottom right corner, where there are dice results printed on every card. The clever part is, there is an "Event!" banner under some of those die results, and when you draw one of those, you must resolve a random event (another card draw) before you apply the die roll. I can tell you the system works like a charm, very dynamic.

It'd be interesting to find a balanced way for a character to be able to peek at that number in advance of making a test, or to place a discarded card back on the deck just before making the test, sort of like a prophetess or seer.
 
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Thomas Denmark
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zombiegod wrote:
A better laid out, proper, rulebook


Oh, that rulebook...cause of so much pain. I rewrote that thing so many times with each new set to simplify and reduce, and instead it just kept growing and becoming more convoluted.

That would be the highest priority after getting decent components together.
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Thomas Denmark
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darkyeoman wrote:

To be honest, I quite like map cards, especially since they keep the game (when stored) compact.

I'd love to see the idea you had to develop Dungeoneer scenarios


Map tiles would not be any taller than a card, and only a tad thicker. How important is compactness to you? The original vision for the game was to get it as close to a deck of cards as possible. But it ended up needing dice and tokens.

Dungeoneer Scenarios was a good idea. The reality of making it though proved to be so time consuming as to not be practical.
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I'd love to see it upgraded to a full board game with nice dungeon tiles, cards, tokens, dice, etc. Doesn't have to be a huge mega game but something that is self contained, upgraded, and supports 1-4 players. Maybe do the later stuff as expansions instead of self contained decks so people don't have to re-buy all the components.
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Kevin B. Smith
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Seems I'm in the minority, but a great co-op mode would be my #1 request, by far.

Beyond that, more interesting quests. And standees.

I like the cards as tiles, and a small box (although bigger than a tuckbox).
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John Mack
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tldenmark wrote:
important is compactness to you? The original vision for the game was to get it as close to a deck of cards as possible. But it ended up needing dice and tokens.


But the design works! A few small dices and token fit in the box.

If Dungeoneer gets bigger I would expect it to still fit in a small backpack. Obviously it's just my opinion.
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Santi Velasco
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I also like games with a small footprint, but I'd rather have a box capable of holding a few expansions with ease, than a pocket-sized base game that you need to store in a bigger box once expansions start to add up. Take for instance the Smash Up base game box, I think that is a good example of compromise between storage space and portability.
 
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WOW! A Dungeoneer Comeback? YES, please! surprise

- Co-op mode.

- Solo mode.

- Try to keep a reduced price, like the old Dungeoneers? $20-$25 tops?

- Stick to the same wonderful art style. Don't go Pathfinder style, don't go Dungeon! cartoony style...
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Santi Velasco
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takt wrote:
- Stick to the same wonderful art style. Don't go Pathfinder style, don't go Dungeon! cartoony style...


Well having that Thomas is both the designer AND the artist, I'd take that as a given.
 
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Thomas Huber-Wehner
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A campaign system would be really great.

The system of combining different sets needs a big overhaul.

Quite often we faced the problem of a "leading player run away". It was
difficult for the other players to came back into the game. Perhaps the system
could be tweaked a little bit.

A coop- and/or solovariant would be nice.

We had a lot of fun playing Dungeoneer and played it alot. Especially when we
went on vacation. It is light, easy to transport and doesn't need to much room on the table.
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Dheyrdre Machado
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I just love this game!!!

Things that I really want:

- solo mode
- campaign mode
- co-op mode
- bigger box to hold sleeves
- tokens


I really enjoy how it plays.

I'm missing 3 sets and I'm not giving up finding them.

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Robert R
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All these suggestions seem to turn the game into one similar to so many others already out there. I would prefer it to stay as-is with an updated rule book. I love the fact that the whole game is a deck of cards and not a bunch of bits and bobs. I vote against tiles for a map, but if you're dead set on it I prefer interlocking ones, for better stability. But please don't switch to tiles!
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it would be amazing do see dungeooner back

+1 for tiles instead of cards (or square cards would be great too). I would aalso prefer less text on them, more icons perhaps?
+1 for the same art style
+1 for balancing and variety with missions
+1 for new rulebook

-1 for co-op/solo - there are so many dungeon crawler fantasy coops out there, that is super hard to find solid dc competetive.

although MY BIGGEST issue with the game was gameflow itself. I would love to see some improvements at these:
- turns were waaaaaayyy too long - playing 4players game was such a drag maybe if all players would play each phases one by one instead of turn (4phases) after turn? Or some phases played simultaneously - that would be awesome
- too random - rolling just one D6 + your modifier was way too random for my taste - maybe more dice or different sizes or more modifiers? I wouldn't go into custom dice cause it will raise the price
- I always had problem with that extra move tokens that you can save to use in other player rounds - that always sounded more complicated than I thought it had to be.

anyways, good luck with resurrecting the game it was my first new-age board game so I have quite a lot of sentimental sympathy to it and the game still in my collection (despite selling many games from my collection )
 
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