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Subject: Question to game designers rss

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amanwing
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Would it be too much to ask for a rule change (optional rule) to make the game harder after time runs out and remove the immediate lose condition?
Also, I would recommend adding 1 to the timer if 3 players, 2 with 2 players and 3 with one player.
After you reach the end timer there should be something like an extra spawn somewhere, all vampires do one more damage, refresh encounter tokens or something you can come up with.
Then publish a short PDF Document.
I know we could just play it that way, but it would feel better if it is something the developers publish.
The time limit forces players to rush through and not enjoy the possibilities. It is the most common critic you can find here. The game would be much better if you change that.
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gary gee
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why not just drop the number of turns rule?...have the day night cycle.but just go to do the objective or die trying...just an idea off the top of my head
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Peer Lagerpusch
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Have you read the section about adjusting difficulty on page 33?

"Adjusting Difficulty

You can adjust the difficulty to suit your group:

Change Decks: When constructing the Vampire Activation
and Encounter Decks, add more of the lower level
cards to make the game easier, or more of the higher level
cards to make it harder.

Change Day/Night Times: Move the Start and End Tokens
on the Clock to change the number of rounds in the
Day and Night. Shift the Start and End Token 1 round earlier
to make the game easier or 1 round later to make the
game harder. If you exhaust a Vampire Activation Deck,
shuffle the discarded cards to form a new deck.

Spawn More Vampires: Place double the number of Vampires
shown on the green bar of the Encounter Card to
make the game harder."
 
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Henrik Schmidt
Germany
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Shifting the Start and End Token will change the difficulty but will not fix the race element.

I guess what most players would like to see is a game without race but with a balanced (in my case hard) difficulty.
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gary gee
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just pick the starting time...or use the starting time in the scenario.but no end time.simples
 
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Henrik Schmidt
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tootz wrote:
just pick the starting time...or use the starting time in the scenario.but no end time.simples ;)


... but unbalanced as being too easy. So not that simple.
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Peer Lagerpusch
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Problem is, if you remove the end time, reaching the primary objective is still possible. Sure, you could also fail, but the win/lose ratio would change. Also to balance that change it would involve a lot of playtesting and maybe even some re-design. But if someone would like to work on that, they should give it a try. Really looking forward to what people will do with our game.

What I personally do not like about dungeon crawl style games is that it sometimes feels like that a game/mission could last forever without coming to an end. Here you always will have the end in sight and can play a mission in a relative short period of time.
 
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Henrik Schmidt
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I don't think a redesign is necessary. Instead we can keep the current timeframe but allow limited overtime with increased spawning or increased strength/health of vampires.
 
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Peer Lagerpusch
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Feel free to give it a try.
 
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gary gee
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LarkinVB wrote:
tootz wrote:
just pick the starting time...or use the starting time in the scenario.but no end time.simples


... but unbalanced as being too easy. So not that simple.
how??.
if anything it will make it harder. you might have more coming after you no cut off time

or start the timer near 6pm.

I know its not perfect but its a start on evolving the gameplay
 
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chua chee yong
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they play test so long, but no one feel like us feel like its a race to the end?

I don't mind racing for time if there is a lot of slaying vampire or finding some item on the way.

But if we always try to escape fighting vampire and keep moveing and open door toward objective , that feel kind of meh.

I have not play other hunt yet . lets hope its not always giving this kind of feel.
 
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Peer Lagerpusch
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scream81 wrote:
they play test so long, but no one feel like us feel like its a race to the end?

I don't mind racing for time if there is a lot of slaying vampire or finding some item on the way.

But if we always try to escape fighting vampire and keep moveing and open door toward objective , that feel kind of meh.

I have not play other hunt yet . lets hope its not always giving this kind of feel.


You only played Hunt 1?
 
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Daniel Davis
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When time runs out, refresh encounter tokens, double all spawns.
 
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chua chee yong
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PeerLagerpusch wrote:
scream81 wrote:
they play test so long, but no one feel like us feel like its a race to the end?

I don't mind racing for time if there is a lot of slaying vampire or finding some item on the way.

But if we always try to escape fighting vampire and keep moveing and open door toward objective , that feel kind of meh.

I have not play other hunt yet . lets hope its not always giving this kind of feel.


You only played Hunt 1?


Yes. In another thread that I post . As I read others people reply. Seem like most Hunt are like this .
 
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amanwing
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LarkinVB wrote:
Shifting the Start and End Token will change the difficulty but will not fix the race element.

I guess what most players would like to see is a game without race but with a balanced (in my case hard) difficulty.

This exactly
 
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Dan
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The excuse of shifting the start and end timer, or simply not playing with them at all, solves almost nothing, and creates more problems.

If you shift the timer to allow MORE time, it makes the game incredibly easy and doesn’t cure the race to the end feel.

Likewaise, if you shift the game to allow LESS time, it ephisizes the race to the end feel.

For those saying to remove the timer all together, the issue is, the vampires are not at all difficult to battle. The game was specifically designed around this day night cycle time mechanic. To remove the time mechanic, would require a rework of every vampire.

I know that many people worked very hard on this game, and the developer has popped in here to comment, and I apologize in advance for harsh words, but the game just simply was not designed well for what it was marketed as.

This is not even in the realm of a dungeon crawler RPG. This is a quick, mindless slog, through vampires that are as threatening as a paper cut. The ultimate enemy is the time mechanic, which is clearly not fun to a large portion of gamers.

This is unfortunately not an easy fix. Vampires need reworking, guns need reworking, and essentially the entire game would need rebalancing. My group and I tried to do just this, and it ultimately ends up being a complete rework to get it working to any level of fun, and if I wanted to design my own game, I would have.
 
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Peer Lagerpusch
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Mordliss wrote:
The excuse of shifting the start and end timer, or simply not playing with them at all, solves almost nothing, and creates more problems.

If you shift the timer to allow MORE time, it makes the game incredibly easy and doesn’t cure the race to the end feel.

Likewaise, if you shift the game to allow LESS time, it ephisizes the race to the end feel.

For those saying to remove the timer all together, the issue is, the vampires are not at all difficult to battle. The game was specifically designed around this day night cycle time mechanic. To remove the time mechanic, would require a rework of every vampire.

I know that many people worked very hard on this game, and the developer has popped in here to comment, and I apologize in advance for harsh words, but the game just simply was not designed well for what it was marketed as.

This is not even in the realm of a dungeon crawler RPG. This is a quick, mindless slog, through vampires that are as threatening as a paper cut. The ultimate enemy is the time mechanic, which is clearly not fun to a large portion of gamers.

This is unfortunately not an easy fix. Vampires need reworking, guns need reworking, and essentially the entire game would need rebalancing. My group and I tried to do just this, and it ultimately ends up being a complete rework to get it working to any level of fun, and if I wanted to design my own game, I would have.


You don‘t have to apologize. I personally like a good discussion and like to hear what people think, about our game and about games in general. Without these discussions one cannot learn and grow.
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Walking DED
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D_Davis wrote:
When time runs out, refresh encounter tokens, double all spawns.


I haven't played yet but has anyone tried that suggestion? What about spawning some kind of boss that has to be defeated if you run out of time?
 
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Martin
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Mordliss wrote:
I know that many people worked very hard on this game, and the developer has popped in here to comment, and I apologize in advance for harsh words, but the game just simply was not designed well for what it was marketed as.

This is not even in the realm of a dungeon crawler RPG. This is a quick, mindless slog, through vampires that are as threatening as a paper cut. The ultimate enemy is the time mechanic, which is clearly not fun to a large portion of gamers.

This is unfortunately not an easy fix. Vampires need reworking, guns need reworking, and essentially the entire game would need rebalancing. My group and I tried to do just this, and it ultimately ends up being a complete rework to get it working to any level of fun, and if I wanted to design my own game, I would have.


Very well written. I am still waiting to receive my game and sounds like this might be my first KS letdown.

I bought this game because I wanted a dungeon crawl, slogging my way through hordes of powerful vampires, and from the KS campaign I thought this was what I was getting. If I wanted a race game I'll get out Lewis & Clark for God's sake.
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Spyridon Mpakas
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I did not enjoy the racing mechanic either...i am already thinking to extend the game length of all scenarios by one two rounds during the night, redo all the encounters after the last round of the normal game with double spawns for the green section of the encounters...still a very poorly designed part of the game from the part of the creators
 
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Ken M
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I enjoy the timer as-is. Sword & Sorcery has a similar mechanic, as does the upcoming Deep Madness. It just means every decision is important. In Zombicide you can just camp out and keep searching until you find what you need or a necromancer shows up. With Vampire Hunters, searching is precious and rare.

I've played hunt 1 three times and hunt 2 once. In all of those games, it seemed like the most important timer was the awakening rather than the final round.
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Spyridon Mpakas
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I still believe the racing mechanic could be much less important so the game would concentrate more in its dungeon crawling characteristics...like it is now, there is not enough time for searching or killing vampires...if i want to play a racing game i prefer to play formula d or chariots of rome which both have much better racing mechanics than vampire hunters
 
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what we did to make the game tougher is to HALF the wound points of all the Hunters and ignored the armor (which we usually forgot about anyway).

have not changed the timing mechanic until have played more scenarios to see if it is just an 'issue' in Hunt 1 or is a regular thing.
 
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Spyridon Mpakas
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The game does not need to be tougher for the hunters...the difficulty is already fine by the time limits set in each scenario...what needs fixing, is the time the hunters have to achieve doing certain things, such as searching and attacking
 
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r g
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If playing as one-off missions, maybe just keep going after timer runs out but consider success a "minor victory" instead of full victory.
 
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