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Subject: A couple of questions rss

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Damien Mitchell
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If there's a Minion or Squire or both but no Werewolves, do they win if the Tanner or Synthetic Alien dies(since their new winning condition is to survive to watch someone die)?

Is it still considered an epic battle if you have Villagers vs Werewolves vs Synthetic Alien OR Villagers vs Vampires vs Synthetic Alien OR Vampires vs Werewolves vs Synthetic Alien?

If there's no Werewolves and the Minion or Squire has the Mark of the Traitor/Dagger of the Traitor, do they win if the other or a Doppelganger/Paranormal Investigator-Minion/Squire dies?

If Nostradamus has the Mark of the Traitor/Dagger of the Traitor, does he have to survive and his teammate dies or can he die with his teammate?

Do a Diseased Vampire and a Vampire Disease both have the same status(as they are both Vampires that can make you lose if they voted)?

If the Oracle answers the question, "What number am I thinking of?" incorrectly but then gets the Mark of the Vampire, is she considered as a Vampire and everyone winning conditions are considered as if there was no Oracle?

Similar question to the last one, but if the Body Snatcher or Alien tap changes them to an Alien, they count as an Alien, right?

If the Doppelganger copies the Assassin and someone who has the Mark of the Assassin dies, then the Assassin who gave them that Mark wins and not both, right?

Why is it that if the Oracle gets the "What number am I thinking of?" question wrong, the Assassin still gives someone the Mark even though it doesn't matter at that point(like is it supposed to be for if the Oracle is in the center and everyone should revert back to their winning conditions?
 
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Damien Mitchell
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Oh yeah, what happens if the Oracle gets the wrong but the Aliens tap makes her an Alien Helper?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Raven1207 wrote:
If there's a Minion or Squire or both but no Werewolves, do they win if the Tanner or Synthetic Alien dies(since their new winning condition is to survive to watch someone die)?

Yes No. They are still on the Werewolf team despite them getting a slightly altered win condition. Thus, the Tanner/Synthetic dying cancels their win condition.

Raven1207 wrote:
Is it still considered an epic battle if you have Villagers vs Werewolves vs Synthetic Alien OR Villagers vs Vampires vs Synthetic Alien OR Vampires vs Werewolves vs Synthetic Alien?

The Synthetic Alien does not count as an Alien during the end-game. Thus, they do not count as an Alien being present for Epic, nor do they count as an Alien being killed if they die.

Raven1207 wrote:
If there's no Werewolves and the Minion or Squire has the Mark of the Traitor/Dagger of the Traitor, do they win if the other or a Doppelganger/Paranormal Investigator-Minion/Squire dies?

Yes. Their win condition depends on another member of the Werewolf team being present, which is the case.

Raven1207 wrote:
If Nostradamus has the Mark of the Traitor/Dagger of the Traitor, does he have to survive and his teammate dies or can he die with his teammate?

His win condition is completely changed, so he no longer has to survive, which was part of his original win condition.

Raven1207 wrote:
Do a Diseased Vampire and a Vampire Disease both have the same status(as they are both Vampires that can make you lose if they voted)?

It seems so.

Raven1207 wrote:
If the Oracle answers the question, "What number am I thinking of?" incorrectly but then gets the Mark of the Vampire, is she considered as a Vampire and everyone winning conditions are considered as if there was no Oracle?

Yes, I think so.

Raven1207 wrote:
Similar question to the last one, but if the Body Snatcher or Alien tap changes them to an Alien, they count as an Alien, right?

Yes.

Raven1207 wrote:
If the Doppelganger copies the Assassin and someone who has the Mark of the Assassin dies, then the Assassin who gave them that Mark wins and not both, right?

Provided there is at least one Mark of the Assassin in play, all Assassins win if any player with the Mark of the Assassin dies. It doesn't have to be the one they gave out.

Raven1207 wrote:
Why is it that if the Oracle gets the "What number am I thinking of?" question wrong, the Assassin still gives someone the Mark even though it doesn't matter at that point(like is it supposed to be for if the Oracle is in the center and everyone should revert back to their winning conditions?

Because the Assassin Mark might replace the Oracle's Vampire Mark, for example.

If the Oracle is in the center, the conditions do not revert back. You instead have the situation of no-evil and everyone can only win if they successfully circle vote.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Raven1207 wrote:
Oh yeah, what happens if the Oracle gets the wrong but the Aliens tap makes her an Alien Helper?

That is.... odd.

I am not absolutely sure about this one, but I think you still count as Oracle, but your win condition is changed to be on a different team, so I think you win with everyone else if you die?
 
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Damien Mitchell
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Clipper wrote:
Raven1207 wrote:
Oh yeah, what happens if the Oracle gets the wrong but the Aliens tap makes her an Alien Helper?

That is.... odd.

I am not absolutely sure about this one, but I think you still count as Oracle, but your win condition is changed to be on a different team, so I think you win with everyone else if you die?


Maybe it's a mystery.
 
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Steven Albano
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I thought if the Minion or Squire were alone but a Tanner and Synthetic died, they lose because Tanner and Synthetic make the Werewolf team lose?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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colormage1 wrote:
I thought if the Minion or Squire were alone but a Tanner and Synthetic died, they lose because Tanner and Synthetic make the Werewolf team lose?


You are right. It didn't even cross my mind that the question was essentially asking if they are still on the Werewolf team. I wasn't thinking about the loss conditions.
 
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Damien Mitchell
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Clipper wrote:
colormage1 wrote:
I thought if the Minion or Squire were alone but a Tanner and Synthetic died, they lose because Tanner and Synthetic make the Werewolf team lose?


You are right. It didn't even cross my mind that the question was essentially asking if they are still on the Werewolf team. I wasn't thinking about the loss conditions.


It says that their Winning Conditions change to just living and seeing some else die
 
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Damien Mitchell
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Damien Mitchell
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Raven1207 wrote:


Assuming there's no Werewolves
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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The winning condition changing does not always mean they change team. It almost always does, but I would keep them on the Werewolf team here. Being a Traitor via Mark or Artifact, or being Nostradamus are other ways that you can have a different win condition than your team's winning condition.

Otherwise, you would need to define a special Minion/Squire team that only exists when there are no Werewolves present.

The Tanner and Synthetic roles indicate the Werewolf team loses if the role dies. The Minion and Squire remain on the Werewolf team even if their winning condition changes.
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Damien Mitchell
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Clipper wrote:
The winning condition changing does not always mean they change team. It almost always does, but I would keep them on the Werewolf team here. Being a Traitor via Mark or Artifact, or being Nostradamus are other ways that you can have a different win condition than your team's winning condition.

Otherwise, you would need to define a special Minion/Squire team that only exists when there are no Werewolves present.

The Tanner and Synthetic roles indicate the Werewolf team loses if the role dies. The Minion and Squire remain on the Werewolf team even if their winning condition changes.


Well an arguement that could be made is the Tanner section say
"If the Tanner dies and no Werewolves die, the Werewolves do not win." The Minion and Squires are not Werewolves.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I think this might be another case of the rulebook being written before the concept of teams became more important, but you may have an argument.

It's iffy enough that we may need official word on it.
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Steven Albano
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Yea, I really wish there a better and more thorough updated FAQ for this reason.

 
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Damien Mitchell
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colormage1 wrote:
Yea, I really wish there a better and more thorough updated FAQ for this reason.


Yeah
 
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Phoebe Wild
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Raven1207 wrote:
If there's a Minion or Squire or both but no Werewolves, do they win if the Tanner or Synthetic Alien dies(since their new winning condition is to survive to watch someone die)?


I just asked Ted for an official ruling (Sorry for the late reply!)

They don't win if the Tanner dies, but they DO win if the Synthetic Alien dies.


-Phoebe Wild
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Damien Mitchell
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But why is it for one and not the other. Both of them are sucidal roles.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I am also very confused by this ruling.

Tanner death makes the bad guy teams lose.
Synthetic death makes the bad guy teams lose and the village team lose.

It seems that any loss conditions the Tanner provides will be the same for the Synthetic Alien's death.

Unless... is the Synthetic only intended to make the Alien and Village team to lose? Is it intended that the other bad guy teams can win with the Synthetic Alien?
 
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Damien Mitchell
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Clipper wrote:
I am also very confused by this ruling.

Tanner death makes the bad guy teams lose.
Synthetic death makes the bad guy teams lose and the village team lose.

It seems that any loss conditions the Tanner provides will be the same for the Synthetic Alien's death.

Unless... is the Synthetic only intended to make the Alien and Village team to lose? Is it intended that the other bad guy teams can win with the Synthetic Alien?


I think she meant that if there are no Werewolves, then they can only win with Synthetic Alien but not Tanner (Which makes no sense) but if there are Werewolves, they lose either way.
 
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Phoebe Wild
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Raven1207 wrote:
But why is it for one and not the other. Both of them are sucidal roles.


Again from Ted (I wanted to confirm with him!):

When the Tanner wins, everyone else loses. (So the Minion and Squire can't win)


When the Synthetic Alien wins, the Villager and Alien/Werewolf/Vampire teams lose, but the Squire and Minion can win.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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That Tanner rule contradicts the rulebook! Can you please ask again?

The rules say:

"If the Tanner dies and a Werewolf also dies, the village team wins too."

This contradicts Ted's statement entirely, right?

The ruling on the Synthetic does prove that I was wrong and the Minion and Squire do switch to being a new team when the Wolves aren't there.

But if the Village team can win with the Tanner, then the Minion/Squire team should be able to win with the Tanner too.
 
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Damien Mitchell
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Clipper wrote:
That Tanner rule contradicts the rulebook! Can you please ask again?

The rules say:

"If the Tanner dies and a Werewolf also dies, the village team wins too."

This contradicts Ted's statement entirely, right?

The ruling on the Synthetic does prove that I was wrong and the Minion and Squire do switch to being a new team when the Wolves aren't there.

But if the Village team can win with the Tanner, then the Minion/Squire team should be able to win with the Tanner too.

Exactly
 
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Damien Mitchell
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MissJekyll wrote:
Raven1207 wrote:
But why is it for one and not the other. Both of them are sucidal roles.


Again from Ted (I wanted to confirm with him!):

When the Tanner wins, everyone else loses. (So the Minion and Squire can't win)


When the Synthetic Alien wins, the Villager and Alien/Werewolf/Vampire teams lose, but the Squire and Minion can win.


Everyone minus Villagers and Indy roles.
 
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