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Subject: TGIF Poll #401: DIY rss

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kat costa
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Do-It-Yourself copies of board games: Do we do this? Why/why not?

Poll
Have you ever made a homemade/DIY game?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Yes
63.3% 171
No
36.7% 99
Voters 270
If you have made a homemade/DIY game, why did you do this?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
To test out an existing game and see if it was worth buying.
35.1% 61
To avoid buying a retail copy.
18.4% 32
To get around the hassles of shipping to my region.
6.3% 11
To reduce my carbon footprint.
2.3% 4
To have a version of the game that fit on my shelves / because the box for the retail game was too ungainly
5.2% 9
To have a version of the game with higher production values than the retail copy.
12.6% 22
To have multiple copies of the same game for teaching / sharing with a group.
5.7% 10
To create a jumbo version or live action version suitable for play at a large gathering.
5.2% 9
To create a travel-size version.
11.5% 20
To re-create an out-of-print game.
35.6% 62
To play an ancient abstract game (such as Nine Men’s Morris, Senet, Mancala).
13.2% 23
Because I enjoy making homemade things.
29.9% 52
To create a prototype for something new I was developing.
31.6% 55
For some other reason not listed here
46.0% 80
Voters 174
If you have never made a DIY game, why not?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
I lacked the skills.
36.9% 38
I lacked the raw materials.
25.2% 26
I felt I would be robbing the publisher and/or designer.
17.5% 18
I feared that others would judge me.
2.9% 3
I never had time.
34.0% 35
The need never arose.
53.4% 55
I assumed no one would want to play the game unless it were a retail copy.
7.8% 8
I just never felt like it.
71.8% 74
Voters 103
What do you think of the practice of DIYing games that are available at your FLGS?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
I love it! I do DIY those games OR I would if I had the opportunity.
10.2% 25
I’m not going to do it, but it doesn’t bother me if anyone else does.
50.0% 123
I find it morally objectionable. The designer/publisher/FLGS should get their fair share.
39.8% 98
Voters 246
You have DIYd a version of a particular game. You enjoy playing the game and are satisfied with your current copy. In a thrift store, you see the retail version of this game listed at 25% of the MSRP. Do you buy the game for yourself?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
I buy the retail copy.
71.9% 164
I pass up the retail copy.
28.1% 64
Voters 228
This poll is now closed.   270 answers
Poll created by kataclysm
Closes: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:00 am



If you enjoy these polls, you can subscribe to the TGIF Poll Subscription Thread.

New! If you are female, you can take part in the TGIF Women's Poll. Same questions, but the poll is only open to the 10% of us on BGG who are female or gender-diverse.

Discussion: What’s your favorite DIY game or DIY game experience? Or your worst one?
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No One
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kataclysm wrote:
If you have made a homemade/DIY game, why did you do this?


Other reason: The game was in print but not available for retail purchase in my country, and could not be imported by means I could find.

(edit: once the retail version becomes available, I do buy it)

~V
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Jerry Martin
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The only ones I have made are Print and Plays that don't have a retails version.

Thanks again!
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Rick Holzgrafe
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You left out one possible response to "why did you do this?" We made a DIY copy of Dune. Yes, it's an out-of-print game. But we also owned a copy we'd bought at a flea market. It was in terrible condition, so we made the DIY copy to have a clean-and-complete version to play. We still have the flea-market copy, so we feel that we are reasonably entitled to our DIY copy and haven't stolen anything from anybody.

But it's also true that DIY copies generally cost more than production copies, especially if you factor in the time and tools needed to create one. Because of that, I don't think DIY copies hurt the market all that much. And they can actually help to sell retail copies: the DIY-maker will share their game with others, who might decide they like the game enough to buy copies for themselves.
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Yours Truly,
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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Were you intending that "print-n-play" games be excluded from your definition of "homemade/DIY"?
(I'm guessing yes, since it's a (THE?) major reason people do homemade, yet it wasn't one of the reasons listed?)
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No One
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
Were you intending that "print-n-play" games be excluded from your definition of "homemade/DIY"?
(I'm guessing yes, since it's a (THE?) major reason people do homemade, yet it wasn't one of the reasons listed?)


I assumed the PnP to fall under the umbrella of DIY.

~V
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Matt L.
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I tried to make (and quasi-upgrade) an OOP game :
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1027309/building-copy-w...
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Scott Russell
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I occasionally DIY to play games before they are avaialable (frequently KS).
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Chaddyboy
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Back in the days where there weren't a wealth of games available, I'd PnP games that were only available via that format.

Nowadays, I can't imagine putting in that effort. There are just too many good games available to bother with a game that was only available via PnP.
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Julian Wasson
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I took it to exclude PnP under the assumption that PnP would have been explicitly included if they were intended to count. Also I think DIYing a game and printing a PnP are fairly distinct actions, both teleologically and in terms of what you're actually doing. One involves figuring out how to recreate an end product via your own means, the other involves working with materials expressly designed to be turned into the end product. It's the difference between a paint-by-numbers of a famous painting, and sitting down with a picture of the painting and trying to re-paint it.

The one time I DIY'd a non-PnP game was because it was not available for purchase (and at the time there were no plans to ever make it available for purchase). The end result ended up fairly different because it was from memory and I had to generate a lot of the content I never saw or couldn't remember myself.
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Chris Fee
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I made a DIY version of Ca$h 'n Gun$, but not for any of the reasons above (although I think it was out of print when I made it).

I like the game but the theme is problematic to play with certain people (especially younger kids).

So I made a version called Gold N Wands where players are wizards splitting up treasure after a dungeon raid. Instead of foam guns, I made paper craft wands. After getting Zapped three times, a player is turned into a frog.

Instead of money, I made cards with the things found in the dungeon (and a gold value). Things like:
Potion of Hair Restoration (I'm not just the president of hair club for wizards...)
Potion of Hare Restoration (For the familiar that has gone to the great beyond)
A Rare Hornless Unicorn
Bag of Endless Doorknobs
A Gift Card for the Mall of the Titans
Phillactery (The receptacle of the soul of the dread liche Phil)
Scroll of Detect Moron (It says there is one VERY close)
The 1.1 Ring (Now 50% more Precious)
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Robert Manning
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I have DIY'd Dune; a standard copy of which I already owned and still own.

I have PnP'd Battle of Honey Springs; but that, although also available at retail, is encouraged by the designer & publisher to be PnP'd.
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maf man
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I've made copies of retail games when I want to change the art and/or theme. Don't have many as it takes me a very long time to make are I'm happy with.
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No One
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Cosmonaut Zero wrote:
I took it to exclude PnP under the assumption that PnP would have been explicitly included if they were intended to count. Also I think DIYing a game and printing a PnP are fairly distinct actions, both teleologically and in terms of what you're actually doing. One involves figuring out how to recreate an end product via your own means, the other involves working with materials expressly designed to be turned into the end product. It's the difference between a paint-by-numbers of a famous painting, and sitting down with a picture of the painting and trying to re-paint it.


In both cases you're gathering materials to make the game, gathering information on how to put the game together, and putting in the work for some type of finished product. Whether that's a simple as just using your printer, or as complicated as scavenging parts from multiple games, emailing the designer, and reconstructing from memory, I don't think needs distinction in this case. Categorization due to the complexity of effort seems unnecessary to me. At least for this poll.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

~V
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Eric Brosius
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My DIYs have all been other designers’ prototypes, made so I could help playtest.
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Yours Truly,
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Veero wrote:
Cosmonaut Zero wrote:
I took it to exclude PnP under the assumption that PnP would have been explicitly included if they were intended to count. Also I think DIYing a game and printing a PnP are fairly distinct actions, both teleologically and in terms of what you're actually doing. One involves figuring out how to recreate an end product via your own means, the other involves working with materials expressly designed to be turned into the end product. It's the difference between a paint-by-numbers of a famous painting, and sitting down with a picture of the painting and trying to re-paint it.


In both cases you're gathering materials to make the game, gathering information on how to put the game together, and putting in the work for some type of finished product. Whether that's a simple as just using your printer, or as complicated as scavenging parts from multiple games, emailing the designer, and reconstructing from memory, I don't think needs distinction in this case. Categorization due to the complexity of effort seems unnecessary to me. At least for this poll.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

~V


But which of the 13 reasons would you include for PnP? Or just Other, the 14th?

Or, are you saying PnP is not a reason, it's an action (i.e. synonymous with DIY), and the poll is asking WHY you PnP?
(My answer would then still not be any of the 13 reasons, it would be "because it's a PnP game )
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Doug Click
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I have seen some AMAZING DIY reskins of games. Like the Star Wars Pandemic...
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Adam Tucker
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kataclysm wrote:
Discussion: What’s your favorite DIY game or DIY game experience? Or your worst one?
Other than user made expansion content for games that I own, the only PnP/DIY I have done is expansions for a game I already enjoyed and a new game by that same company. In both cases, by the time I got everything printed, cut, sleeved, and pasted/stickered, and could try it out a couple of times, there was a newer build ready/available, and the Kickstarters had (funded and) closed.
Which, in the case of the new game, meant I could not pull my pledge.
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Julian Wasson
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Veero wrote:
Cosmonaut Zero wrote:
I took it to exclude PnP under the assumption that PnP would have been explicitly included if they were intended to count. Also I think DIYing a game and printing a PnP are fairly distinct actions, both teleologically and in terms of what you're actually doing. One involves figuring out how to recreate an end product via your own means, the other involves working with materials expressly designed to be turned into the end product. It's the difference between a paint-by-numbers of a famous painting, and sitting down with a picture of the painting and trying to re-paint it.


In both cases you're gathering materials to make the game, gathering information on how to put the game together, and putting in the work for some type of finished product. Whether that's a simple as just using your printer, or as complicated as scavenging parts from multiple games, emailing the designer, and reconstructing from memory, I don't think needs distinction in this case. Categorization due to the complexity of effort seems unnecessary to me. At least for this poll.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

~V


100% fair. I think either interpretation is valid, and I think there is value both in discussing them together and in discussing them separately. b^_^
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I'm trying out some print and play games from wargamevault. They have some interesting games for not a lot of bucks.
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Lance McMillan
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One reason that isn't mentioned for DIY is that sometimes I'll see/play a game that I thought showed a lot of potential, but wasn't quite good enough (for one reason or the other) to justify buying a copy myself. So instead I'll create a DIY version of the game with a number of changes that bring the game up to my standards. Typically this has nothing to do with quality of components -- my DIY projects are crude at best -- but center instead on either thematic or actual game-play issues. For example, I'm not a big fan of either the fantasy or Zombie genres, so I've created re-themed DIY versions of both DungeonQuest and Dead of Winter: A Crossroads Game with SciFi settings. The point is, I don't think that I'm costing any designer/publisher income by creating my heavily modified DIY versions of their games because (A) I never had any intention of buying those original games in the first place, and (B) all my DIY projects are strictly for personal use and I've never shared them with anyone.
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Brent Wilson
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The "Other" I chose was:
PnP for playtest for designers. I've done that many times.

Some other anecdotes:

I made a copy of Glory to Rome partly as an incentive to teach myself to use Gimp. It was a huge amount of work to recreate all the art and card templates.

I made a copy of Haggis out of bicycle playing cards when it was out of print then later bought the retail copy. The retail cards are such poor quality that I still play with my bicycle cards with paint marker on them.

I made (did the layout and then ordered custom cards) for Sushi Go and No Thanks so that I could have mini card versions that travel better and are cuter than commercial versions.

I did the PnP version of Hardback because I really wanted to play it before it came out. Still haven't managed to get it to the table.

I do PnP versions of many hard to get promos.

I made a Go board and a wooden block version of Qwirkle out of scrap wood just because I like woodworking.


There are many, many others.

Not that you asked, but the only game I'm sure I would DIY a copy of if I didn't have one is Clash of Cultures and its expansion.
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Chris Fee
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mafman6 wrote:
I've made copies of retail games when I want to change the art and/or theme. Don't have many as it takes me a very long time to make are I'm happy with.

Forgot that one. I did a steampunk retheme of Love Letter. I own a retail copy, just wanted to be steampunky.
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Do Magic: The GatheringProxies count?

i.e If I'm testing a Magic deck I've built, I'll build up some popular decks from the internet to see how well my deck holds up. I don't own all the rare cards of these other decks, so I print my own copies of the ones I'm missing.

Any Magic tournament players will know this is very common practice for deck testing.
It's not making the whole game, but it is making bits of it.
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Harley Winfrey
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The first Avalon Hill game I played in the 80s was Statis Pro Baseball, getting it as a Christmas gift. The set I got came with the 1987 season, so naturally I wanted to play with other teams from history. There were a few seasons available for mail order, but that was beyond my means as a 9-year old. The game designers actually included a "how-to" in the rulebook for making your own team cards based on historic stats. I wound up choosing 64 of the greatest teams from history and playing them against each other in an epic tournament series. Of course the 1985 and 1977 Royals were favorites of mine, but I also learned to appreciate many other teams by playing them. The 1906 Cubs, the 1909 Pirates, the 1929 Cardinals, the 1955 Dodgers were a few that stand out in my memory. I made the team cards using 3x5 notecards and I think I still have most of them in a shoebox somewhere.
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