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Cosmic Encounter» Forums » Rules

Subject: Another bunch of rules questions / timing rss

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My group might be overthinking the timing of things in this game.
We're sorta "magic the gathering" minded, and think of structuring everything in a certain way.

We're kinda uncertain if we are to treat this game as "munchkin" where whoever play what first gets to resolve first, or strictly go with "offense first no matter what" as said in the rules.

However, yes, offense trigger first, but it's a bit unclear to us anyways and just want to ask around a bit here.

Q1:
- If I play the Masochist, it says I win "at the start of any players regroup phase" if I have no ships left.

However, can the offensive in this case, play mobius tubes, and resolve it before this effect takes priority? The effects would trigger at the same time... or do just Masochist effect trigger?
Or do Offense have to be fast and say "I'm playing mobius tubes!!" before masochist has a chance to claim he has won?

Q2:
Let's say I am the defensive, and I have no encounter cards in my hand, and a Kicker card.
Can I play the kicker card (since the planning phase has started) before I discard my hand to draw a new hand? Making the kicker take effect for the later played Encounter card?

Q3:
Some effects states "whenever the deck is reshuffled to make a new deck". What if we are playing with reward deck and research deck?
Do this effect trigger anytime any of those decks is reshuffled to make a new deck?

Q4:
Still have a question about Power Zap (cosmic zap).
Rule book state that you use it whenever an alien power is USED (fat text) like they really want to clarify that the effect is going through a trigger phase, like "will you allow this power to resolve? If no, use a Cosmic Zap, otherwise you can't do it later"
Is this true?
Let's say we are in a scenario with the Anti-Matter, the Reveal phase has started and after calculating the cards and totals, it's clear the Anti-Matter win.
Opponent play a card that change the outcome, can anti matter then Zap his own power to make him turn the tide once again? Or it the oppertunity too late once it has been clarified his power has been "USED"?
Hope I make it clear what I mean, if not, just ask.

Q5:
Can shadow and Hate really pick ANY ships? Like specific ones, even though they are underneath other ships?
If, let's say, fungus has some stacked ships underneath a bunch of his other un-stacked ships, can Shadow/Hate take the ship in the very bottom that is stacked?

Q6:
Singular card drawing.
When drawing multiple cards, can you draw them one by one? Looking at them, then chosing to either pick more cards or maby some ships if you are happy with what you got so far.
Same with compensation, do you gotta draw everything as a bulk or not?

Q7:
How far can you really go, for balance and all sorts of purposes, ethical or not (love that term in games like these) when it comes to distributing information about your hand and others?
I know you can't simply spurt out what your opponent has if you saw his hand just now, as it's stated on many effects... or can you?
And I guess you are never forced to honor your deals when you make them "I'll trade you an attack 40 for a negotiate card" and you give them an attack 00 for example.
Maby this is a combined tricky question if you can make multiple trades in a deal, one card at a time, passing hands.
"You didn't give me the right card! I won't trade any more cards in this deal!"

Q8:
Leftover components!
What happen to citadels, fungus ships that has been stacking ships, and other things when a player is forced to switch race?
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ishinken wrote:
We're kinda uncertain if we are to treat this game as "munchkin" where whoever play what first gets to resolve first, or strictly go with "offense first no matter what" as said in the rules.

Please understand: The rules do not in any way say "offense first no matter what". The Timing Rule says that the offense goes first in the case where two players are trying to do something at the same time.

Quote:
Q1:
- If I play the Masochist, it says I win "at the start of any players regroup phase" if I have no ships left.

Meaning as soon as the regroup phase starts. Not, sometime during the regroup phase, potentially after the offense has played an artifact, or performed any number of other actions. So yes, the Masochist wins immediately.

Quote:
Q2:
Let's say I am the defensive, and I have no encounter cards in my hand, and a Kicker card.
Can I play the kicker card (since the planning phase has started) before I discard my hand to draw a new hand? Making the kicker take effect for the later played Encounter card?

No. The Planning phase has not started when you are designated as the defense. That's still the Destiny phase. You can't play a Kicker in the destiny phase. If for some reason, you lose all your encounter cards in the middle of the Planning Phase, and still have a kicker left in your hand, then yes, you could play it in that circumstance, but I can't think of any game effects that would cause that to happen.

Quote:
Q3:
Some effects states "whenever the deck is reshuffled to make a new deck". What if we are playing with reward deck and research deck?
Do this effect trigger anytime any of those decks is reshuffled to make a new deck?

No. It means the regular deck, officially called the "Cosmic Deck". AFAIK, there are no effects that trigger off of reshuffling the Reward Deck, or the Tech deck, or the Unused Flare deck, or the Hazard deck, or any other deck.

Quote:
Q4:
Still have a question about Power Zap (cosmic zap).
Rule book state that you use it whenever an alien power is USED (fat text) like they really want to clarify that the effect is going through a trigger phase, like "will you allow this power to resolve? If no, use a Cosmic Zap, otherwise you can't do it later"
Is this true?
Let's say we are in a scenario with the Anti-Matter, the Reveal phase has started and after calculating the cards and totals, it's clear the Anti-Matter win.
Opponent play a card that change the outcome, can anti matter then Zap his own power to make him turn the tide once again? Or it the oppertunity too late once it has been clarified his power has been "USED"?
Hope I make it clear what I mean, if not, just ask.

Yes, the Anti-Matter can still be zapped in this case. Those "calculation powers" are continually being used until a final calculation of win/lose/deal is made. Essentially, the calculation really only happens once, but there's time for players to manipulate the outcome if they have the right cards/powers/reinforcements, etc.

Quote:
Q5:
Can shadow and Hate really pick ANY ships? Like specific ones, even though they are underneath other ships?
If, let's say, fungus has some stacked ships underneath a bunch of his other un-stacked ships, can Shadow/Hate take the ship in the very bottom that is stacked?

Not in this case. Fungus stacks are considered one ship. They do not break apart until they go to the warp. Shadow and Hate (and Bully) are good powers to use against Fungus.

Quote:
Q6:
Singular card drawing.
When drawing multiple cards, can you draw them one by one? Looking at them, then chosing to either pick more cards or maby some ships if you are happy with what you got so far.
Same with compensation, do you gotta draw everything as a bulk or not?

Usually, it doesn't matter. But in the case where it might matter, I don't know. I'd say probably yes, you can draw them one by one.

Quote:
Q7:
How far can you really go, for balance and all sorts of purposes, ethical or not (love that term in games like these) when it comes to distributing information about your hand and others?
I know you can't simply spurt out what your opponent has if you saw his hand just now, as it's stated on many effects... or can you?

AFAIK, it is only the Mind that is not allowed to say anything about what specific cards he saw in his opponent's hand. Other than that, you're allowed to say anything, even lies.

Quote:
And I guess you are never forced to honor your deals when you make them "I'll trade you an attack 40 for a negotiate card" and you give them an attack 00 for example.

ABSOLUTELY NOT! Deals must be carried out exactly as agreed upon. A deal is binding.

Quote:
Maby this is a combined tricky question if you can make multiple trades in a deal, one card at a time, passing hands.
"You didn't give me the right card! I won't trade any more cards in this deal!"

No. A deal is made all at once, one time. If you're giving your opponent three cards as part of the deal, you give them all at once. And they must be whatever you said they would be. Of course, you don't have to be specific in the terms of the deal. You can say, "I'll give you three attack cards" or "I'll give you three non-encounter cards" or even "I'll give you three cards". Whatever you and your opponent agree to.

Quote:
Q8:
Leftover components!
What happen to citadels, fungus ships that has been stacking ships, and other things when a player is forced to switch race?

It depends on the specific powers being switched. Some remain in place and continue to have their effect, some remain but don't have any effect, and some are removed/discarded. You have to read the individual powers.
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Phil has nailed it all here, will just pipe up to add – in the lead up to the reveal, you can say anything you like, suggest negotiating, let them know what you will/can offer etc. all this pre-reveal talk can be as truthful or dishonest as you like, you won’t be held to any of it once the real negotiation begins.

But like Phil says, once you have both revealed N’s and you begin the negotiation proper, whatever you offer is binding. If you offer attack 40, you need to have attack 40 and have to part with it. Of course, you could offer your highest attack card under the illusion it will be a decent one and then chuck ‘em a disappointing 8 - BUT that would still have to actually be your highest. Outside of these negotiation phases though, you can say anything you like at any time!
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Appreciate the reply.
But I forgot the very most important question, something I hate THE MOST in ALL the things imaginable in boardgames.
Honesty.

Many effects, still go blindly on the fact that you need to TRUST the players to do the correct thing, because the game's mechanics don't allow "perfect information" to make sure what is going on is correct.

Such as someone using Plague, how do we know the person will discard the right cards if we can't see them?

Stating "I give you the highest attack card I have", how do we know he did if we don't see the others?

How do you guys tackle this?
I know sometimes some players will absolutely cheat on these parts.
Especially plague.
I have "house ruled" that you need to show your hand partly, like, show the red/green/blue borders of all cards, without revealing what they are exactly, everyone will just see that you might have 3 attack cards, 2 negotiates etc.
It reveals a lot about your hand, but it will provide the correct plays so that the right amount of cards will be discarded.
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ishinken wrote:
How do you guys tackle this?
I know sometimes some players will absolutely cheat on these parts.

Like in all hidden information games by finding players that play by the rules. Offer all cheaters council so that they can get their lives in order - why else would they feel the need to cheat in games... devil
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If you are Plagued and claim you don't have a particular card type when you actually do, then you are CHEATING.

If you make a deal yo give someone your highest attack card, and you give them a card that is not your highest, then you are CHEATING.

CHEATING is very, very, very, very, very bad. There is a good chance that you will be caught eventually. And people won't want to play with you again. And rightly so.
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ishinken wrote:
Appreciate the reply.
But I forgot the very most important question, something I hate THE MOST in ALL the things imaginable in boardgames.
Honesty.

Many effects, still go blindly on the fact that you need to TRUST the players to do the correct thing, because the game's mechanics don't allow "perfect information" to make sure what is going on is correct.

Such as someone using Plague, how do we know the person will discard the right cards if we can't see them?

Stating "I give you the highest attack card I have", how do we know he did if we don't see the others?

How do you guys tackle this?
I know sometimes some players will absolutely cheat on these parts.
Especially plague.
I have "house ruled" that you need to show your hand partly, like, show the red/green/blue borders of all cards, without revealing what they are exactly, everyone will just see that you might have 3 attack cards, 2 negotiates etc.
It reveals a lot about your hand, but it will provide the correct plays so that the right amount of cards will be discarded.


How do you tackle this? Get friends who aren’t sad enough to cheat in a board game?
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Sorry guys but your tip "just get better people" is not very good.
And since it's so god darn easy to slip these minor cheats in, it still drives the living crap out of me that mechanic relying on nothing but honesty even exist.
You all really know nothing if people you trust the most might nudge to not throw one card here and there, even though they are legit most of the time.
Since there is a lot of drawing cards sometimes, it's impossible to keep track if someone drew an extra card of X or Y at any given time.

Plague can be beaten by the method I described. You have to show that your hand consist of certain cards, but nobody know the details.
It all work a little different, is a little tricky to display your hand in this way, but it works.

PS: Kinda funny seeing how hardcore you go up against cheating in boardgames like it was seriously a crime xD I think it's sad, yes, but I also think it's sad that there is room for it. I just think there should be methods that simply just don't allow it in ways like these, and I will house rule to eliminate the room for them.
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Lol, you do what you gotta do mate.

I’m just glad I don’t have to house rule every game I play to protect against cheating and that I can happily play games which require an element of trust without stressing about getting dicked over.

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I am at a total loss of what to say here. Are you so desperate for friends that you're willing to hang out with dishonest people you can't trust? Why would you ever play games with such people? Your post saddens me. I am sure there are enough honest people in Sweden to play CE with.

You could also get in on a PBF game. I think there's one just starting up here.
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Phil Fleischmann wrote:
I am at a total loss of what to say here. Are you so desperate for friends that you're willing to hang out with dishonest people you can't trust? Why would you ever play games with such people? Your post saddens me. I am sure there are enough honest people in Sweden to play CE with.

You could also get in on a PBF game. I think there's one just starting up here.


Dude, you're missing the point.
I never said anyone cheated.
I'm saying the game perfectly allow it, in situations where it is completely un-traceable on-top.

If a game allow perfect cheating, I don't care if you're playing with your son or spouse, if only minor, anyone can slip a card or two at a situation where things has only gone south.

You're beating it on the player when the game has a blind spot.
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Ryucoo wrote:
Lol, you do what you gotta do mate.

I’m just glad I don’t have to house rule every game I play to protect against cheating and that I can happily play games which require an element of trust without stressing about getting dicked over.



You can't possibly know that.
you're missing the point.
I never said anyone cheated.
I'm saying the game perfectly allow it, in situations where it is completely un-traceable on-top.

If a game allow perfect cheating, I don't care if you're playing with your son or spouse, if only minor, anyone can slip a card or two at a situation where things has only gone south.

You're beating it on the player when the game has a blind spot.
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ishinken wrote:
I never said anyone cheated.

ishinken wrote:
How do you guys tackle this?
I know sometimes some players will absolutely cheat on these parts.

ishinken wrote:
I don't care if you're playing with your son or spouse, if only minor, anyone can slip a card or two at a situation where things has only gone south.

Anyone could, but would they?

You seem to think they would knowingly do it and thus cheat, but you say that no-one hasn't.

Either you are right and it happens but you haven't caught it, or you're right that it doesn't happen and you're trying to fix a non-existent problem.
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ishinken wrote:
Ryucoo wrote:
Lol, you do what you gotta do mate.

I’m just glad I don’t have to house rule every game I play to protect against cheating and that I can happily play games which require an element of trust without stressing about getting dicked over.



You can't possibly know that.
you're missing the point.
I never said anyone cheated.
I'm saying the game perfectly allow it, in situations where it is completely un-traceable on-top.

If a game allow perfect cheating, I don't care if you're playing with your son or spouse, if only minor, anyone can slip a card or two at a situation where things has only gone south.

You're beating it on the player when the game has a blind spot.


Yeah I heard your the first time.

And no, you’re missing the point. You are worrying about people cheating. I’m not.

That’s the difference. Don’t worry about it or get new friends. That’s your choice.
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a1bert wrote:
ishinken wrote:
I never said anyone cheated.

I don't care if you're playing with your son or spouse, if only minor, anyone can slip a card or two at a situation where things has only gone south.

Anyone could, but would they?

You seem to think they would knowingly do it and thus cheat, but you say that no-one hasn't.

Either you are right and it happens but you haven't caught it, or you're right that it doesn't happen and you're trying to fix a non-existent problem.


The thing that it exist in the first place, can't be un-learned.

Maby one day you guys will see the world isn't so black and white.
And not lose your pants to the thought of people cheating in boardgames.

Also, your input in any variety to complete erase this window has been 0.
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Ryucoo wrote:
ishinken wrote:
Ryucoo wrote:
Lol, you do what you gotta do mate.

I’m just glad I don’t have to house rule every game I play to protect against cheating and that I can happily play games which require an element of trust without stressing about getting dicked over.



You can't possibly know that.
you're missing the point.
I never said anyone cheated.
I'm saying the game perfectly allow it, in situations where it is completely un-traceable on-top.

If a game allow perfect cheating, I don't care if you're playing with your son or spouse, if only minor, anyone can slip a card or two at a situation where things has only gone south.

You're beating it on the player when the game has a blind spot.


Yeah I heard your the first time.

And no, you’re missing the point. You are worrying about people cheating. I’m not.

That’s the difference. Don’t worry about it or get new friends. That’s your choice.


No, I never complained on the company I play with. Stop putting words in my hands.
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ishinken wrote:
Ryucoo wrote:
ishinken wrote:
Ryucoo wrote:
Lol, you do what you gotta do mate.

I’m just glad I don’t have to house rule every game I play to protect against cheating and that I can happily play games which require an element of trust without stressing about getting dicked over.



You can't possibly know that.
you're missing the point.
I never said anyone cheated.
I'm saying the game perfectly allow it, in situations where it is completely un-traceable on-top.

If a game allow perfect cheating, I don't care if you're playing with your son or spouse, if only minor, anyone can slip a card or two at a situation where things has only gone south.

You're beating it on the player when the game has a blind spot.


Yeah I heard your the first time.

And no, you’re missing the point. You are worrying about people cheating. I’m not.

That’s the difference. Don’t worry about it or get new friends. That’s your choice.


No, I never complained on the company I play with. Stop putting words in my hands.


Lol, why worry about cheating then? Relax and play the game safe in the knowledge you are surrounded by normal adults who aren’t lame enough to cheat their friends in a silly board game.
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Ryucoo wrote:
ishinken wrote:
Ryucoo wrote:
ishinken wrote:
Ryucoo wrote:
Lol, you do what you gotta do mate.

I’m just glad I don’t have to house rule every game I play to protect against cheating and that I can happily play games which require an element of trust without stressing about getting dicked over.



You can't possibly know that.
you're missing the point.
I never said anyone cheated.
I'm saying the game perfectly allow it, in situations where it is completely un-traceable on-top.

If a game allow perfect cheating, I don't care if you're playing with your son or spouse, if only minor, anyone can slip a card or two at a situation where things has only gone south.

You're beating it on the player when the game has a blind spot.


Yeah I heard your the first time.

And no, you’re missing the point. You are worrying about people cheating. I’m not.

That’s the difference. Don’t worry about it or get new friends. That’s your choice.


No, I never complained on the company I play with. Stop putting words in my hands.


Lol, why worry about cheating then? Relax and play the game safe in the knowledge you are surrounded by normal adults who aren’t lame enough to cheat their friends in a silly board game.


I laugh at how serious you take this. I bet you say the same, I'm only asking for a sollution, you input 0, only adding drama and drawn out back and forth bullshi* like this.
Either support what I'm asking for, or have this pointless back and forth only resulting in a time waste.
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ishinken wrote:
Ryucoo wrote:
ishinken wrote:
Ryucoo wrote:
ishinken wrote:
Ryucoo wrote:
Lol, you do what you gotta do mate.

I’m just glad I don’t have to house rule every game I play to protect against cheating and that I can happily play games which require an element of trust without stressing about getting dicked over.



You can't possibly know that.
you're missing the point.
I never said anyone cheated.
I'm saying the game perfectly allow it, in situations where it is completely un-traceable on-top.

If a game allow perfect cheating, I don't care if you're playing with your son or spouse, if only minor, anyone can slip a card or two at a situation where things has only gone south.

You're beating it on the player when the game has a blind spot.


Yeah I heard your the first time.

And no, you’re missing the point. You are worrying about people cheating. I’m not.

That’s the difference. Don’t worry about it or get new friends. That’s your choice.


No, I never complained on the company I play with. Stop putting words in my hands.


Lol, why worry about cheating then? Relax and play the game safe in the knowledge you are surrounded by normal adults who aren’t lame enough to cheat their friends in a silly board game.


I laugh at how serious you take this. I bet you say the same, I'm only asking for a sollution, you input 0, only adding drama and drawn out back and forth bullshi* like this.
Either support what I'm asking for, or have this pointless back and forth only resulting in a time waste.


Lol, We’ve given you the solution - that if you aren’t playing with cheats don’t worry about it - and this has caused you to have a meltdown for some reason.

What kind of solution do you want? All board games to come with added security cameras? Or a Trustworthy Friends Expansion? I mean, pay for our flights and we will all come and have a game with you. We can can bring character references and sign academic honesty agreements if it helps?!
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I mean...can't you cheat in every single game if you really wanted to? I don't see the merit in this "issue" being discussed.
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calidoggg wrote:
I mean...can't you cheat in every single game if you really wanted to? I don't see the merit in this "issue" being discussed.


You need to understand the difference where the game basically leave the window straight open for you, and blatantly breaking the mechanics of the game to cheat.
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@Lol, We’ve given you the solution - that if you aren’t playing with cheats don’t worry about it - and this has caused you to have a meltdown for some reason.

What kind of solution do you want? All board games to come with added security cameras? Or a Trustworthy Friends Expansion? I mean, pay for our flights and we will all come and have a game with you. We can can bring character references and sign academic honesty agreements if it helps?!



Dude what is it that you do not understand.
Is it so hard for you?

You can't be this slow. You're basically just trolling or looking for drama.

Can you at least try to think one step further, to maby there are people who experience this a problem, outside this discussion, and give some input from that point of view?
If not, you are not contributing anything anyways and you are once again, only enjoying listening to your own voice (words hurp hurp)
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ishinken wrote:
@Lol, We’ve given you the solution - that if you aren’t playing with cheats don’t worry about it - and this has caused you to have a meltdown for some reason.

What kind of solution do you want? All board games to come with added security cameras? Or a Trustworthy Friends Expansion? I mean, pay for our flights and we will all come and have a game with you. We can can bring character references and sign academic honesty agreements if it helps?!



Dude what is it that you do not understand.
Is it so hard for you?


I understand how to quote, if that’s useful?
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I understand completely, you're a drama queen.
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Ryucoo
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calidoggg wrote:
I mean...can't you cheat in every single game if you really wanted to? I don't see the merit in this "issue" being discussed.


I think the guy is ‘Geeking from prison or something
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