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Firefly Adventures: Brigands and Browncoats» Forums » Rules

Subject: What am I missing with Goon alertness rss

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Dan Spezzano
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The rules state goons become alerted when they see crew in heroic state or bodies at the end of a crew turn. Full stop, nothing else. Now I only played one mission but some examples that made me go really, I must be doing something wrong.

Kaylee goes into a building, she hacks a terminal with a Goon standing 2 squares away. She is acting casual, the goon isn't alerted. He is just like "look at the pretty girl playing with the terminal"

Zoe enters a building with a Cowboy, she goes all heroic like and shoots him. They exchange fire for 2 turns until he is dead. There is a goon standing right outside the building at the other door, he is not alerted because he is outside the locked door or can he see through the door and the dead body?

Mal brawls a guard at the door twice, takes him down. A body drops, One other guard can see the body and becomes alerted. 2 other Goons can see the alerted guard but they don't become alerted right? The Goon (thug) activates next he is far away and need to take a double moved to get next to Mal. Later on Mal goes before the guard, he goes casual with the guard standing right next to him and then moves away. Thus the guard will mover back towards his starting space? This whole last sequence seems to be the rules but doesn't feel right.

Finally the cargo we were after turns out to be a scientist who we now control and acts heroic. He of course double moves for the map edge. Mal is next to him so he goes heroic (job rule) so now on the closest Goons next turn he is equally distant from Mal and the scientist. He attacks Mal because he is the bigger threat. This guarantees me a win because on the scientist next move he will exit the map.

Love people's thoughts on all of these.
 
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Roger Dumas
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I have some questions of my own concerning the rules as well - I agree that some of the things are kind of vague and seem off a little as far as how they seem they should play out (with that said, I would like to add that I have really enjoyed my one play of the game and looking forward to spending more time with it.) I am not going to be able to address all of your questions (again - only one play myself so far), but here are my thoughts of a couple of the things you asked about:

dspezzano wrote:
The rules state goons become alerted when they see crew in heroic state or bodies at the end of a crew turn. Full stop, nothing else.


To my understanding of the rules, this is correct. Unless a card tells you to activate a goon, or some other special rule happens, then the only thing that will activate a goon is if they can see a crew in heroic state or if they see a dead a dead body laying on the ground. I agree that in the case of your example of Zoe it seems kind of strange that the guy out side the building could not hear the gun fight going on.

I wonder if there might be some easy simple house rules we could use - for example - if a goon is with in a certain number of space from a crew firing a gun they become alerted and start a patrol going toward the sound.

dspezzano wrote:
Kaylee goes into a building, she hacks a terminal with a Goon standing 2 squares away. She is acting casual, the goon isn't alerted. He is just like "look at the pretty girl playing with the terminal"


To my understanding this is how it would play out. Think about it this way though - Kaylee has presented her self in such a way that she looks like she is suppose to be there. Maybe when she walked in the building she told the goon in the room that she was with the IT department and had to check a malfunction or something like that. Her smile convinces him she is ok.

dspezzano wrote:
Zoe enters a building with a Cowboy, she goes all heroic like and shoots him. They exchange fire for 2 turns until he is dead. There is a goon standing right outside the building at the other door, he is not alerted because he is outside the locked door or can he see through the door and the dead body?


The rules state that anyone (crew or goon) who is standing on the space directly in front of the door - either side of the door - is visible to the people on the other side of the door. So if Zoe and the goon (and or his dead body) are on the space directly in front of the door, then yes, they are visible to anyone outside the building who is in LOS of the space directly in front of the door on the outside of the building. Also, keep in mind moving from the space outside a door to the space inside the door does not cost you a movement point to do so. Apparently though (as mentioned above) the guy outside the building would not "hear" what was going on inside and come investigate.

dspezzano wrote:
Mal brawls a guard at the door twice, takes him down. A body drops, One other guard can see the body and becomes alerted. 2 other Goons can see the alerted guard but they don't become alerted right? The Goon (thug) activates next he is far away and need to take a double moved to get next to Mal. Later on Mal goes before the guard, he goes casual with the guard standing right next to him and then moves away. Thus the guard will mover back towards his starting space? This whole last sequence seems to be the rules but doesn't feel right.


A couple of rules to keep in mind concerning this example. A crew who is heroic can not "Act Casual" if there is a goon that can see them or if they have any damage on them.

rulebook page 9 top right wrote:
ACT CASUAL
All the Crew have “Act Casual” as a Heroic Action. You must
be Out of Sight of all Goons and be unhurt to go back to Acting
Casual. To Act Casual, flip the Crew Card and swap your Crew
miniature for the Casual pose.


As for where the goon will move to if Mal was able to turn back to casual, follow the rules for movement found on page 11, right hand side of page.

rule book page 11 wrote:
GOON MOVEMENT
Goons will always move towards the nearest Heroic Crew they
can see. When moving Goons, move them via the most direct
route.
If a Goon cannot see a Heroic Crew, they will move towards
the nearest Heroic Crew on the map.
BACK TO WAITING
If there are no Heroic Crew on the map, Goons will move
towards the nearest unoccupied Goon Starting position. These
will be marked on each Job’s map.
If there are no Heroic Crew on the board, a Goon who begins
their turn at a Goon starting Location will go back to Waiting.
Take their marker off the Timeline, heal all their Wounds and
end their turn.


The goon who came to investage the body that Mal dropped would first move toward any heroic crew he could see. If he could see more than one, he would move toward the closest one. If he can not see an heroic crew, he will move to the next closest heroic crew on the map (even out side of his site - think about it as he is investigating and his hunch is just leading him in the right direction) If there is no heroic crew, then the goon will move toward the unoccupied Good starting position.

So the question I have, what is a goon suppose to do when they find a dead body but no heroic character in site to chase down? Do we remove the body (it has been found), do they stay at the body and wait for someone to go heroic in their LOE? (waiting for the person who did to come back to the scene of the crime), or do we just leave the body there, have them move back to their starting location or closest spawn point, and then next turn after they go back into waiting they activate again because the body is still in their line of site?

And in addition to this - what happens to goons who have been moved by a crew action? Kaylee can spent time and move a goon up to three spaces. After he is moved, does he just stay in the new location unless he is activated by something else? Or would he eventually head back to his starting space? I played it they stayed where moved to - just not sure it seemed right.


dspezzano wrote:

Love people's thoughts on all of these.


I would also love to hear others thoughts about these questions. Thanks for asking them.
 
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Angelus Seniores
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I wonder if line f sight can go through a locked door.
Gf9 has ruled that goons can move through locked doors so i guess nothing stops them from looking through it as well. So yeah he could see the fgut happening through the door and go on alert.

There are indeed situations that feel awkward, the behavioral rules of the goons are a little too simple to my taste but on the other hand, a deeper behaviour would also increase complexity.

Regarding the question of moving a goon while acting casual, i feel the goon will remain standing where he is, only alerted goons move around, non-alerted goons stay put regardless where they are.
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Dan Spezzano
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Thanks this was helpful, I clearly did the Mal situation wrong. Granted I only ran a single job and while I did have fun, it seemed rather easy.

I never felt my crew was going to go down and the Goons were kind of easy to kill. They almost always lose in a brawl situation, heck one of the cowboys doesn't even have a fight skill symbol, gun slinger I think, so he is basically rolling a die with no help.

I feel like there is some here with this game but I'm not sure I would bother to play again after doing all 4 jobs.
 
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Joe Kepler
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dspezzano wrote:
Thanks this was helpful, I clearly did the Mal situation wrong. Granted I only ran a single job and while I did have fun, it seemed rather easy.

I never felt my crew was going to go down and the Goons were kind of easy to kill. They almost always lose in a brawl situation, heck one of the cowboys doesn't even have a fight skill symbol, gun slinger I think, so he is basically rolling a die with no help.

I feel like there is some here with this game but I'm not sure I would bother to play again after doing all 4 jobs.


Now this makes me second guess my own game!

You say it is easy, but I've never played an 'easy' game. I've never had a goon die easy either. Downright maddening on the one game Goose Juggling where they are on patrol. I just got one goon dead and another one walked through the door!

I must be doing something wrong since everyone else is having such an 'easy' time of things. LOL.
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Angelus Seniores
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I feel the real difficulty is the time running out.
you play against the allotted time and the goons just force you to spend more time avoiding/fighting them instead of continuing the mission.

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Dan Spezzano
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Angelsenior wrote:
I feel the real difficulty is the time running out.
you play against the allotted time and the goons just force you to spend more time avoiding/fighting them instead of continuing the mission.


This is an excellent point I had not considered. Also I had a lot of things go my way. Equipment cards were useful as Kaylee got 2 contraptions to help with tech tests, two other people got guns.

One of the doors to the main building had a lock token that said open. My random roll was for the scientist who could double move and get off the board quickly as opposed to a heavy safe.

However at the end of the day I'm asking myself do I want to play that scenario again and I don't know the anwser at this point.
 
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Jayson Deare and Sammy G
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We have gotten about 5 to 6 plays in and you did play the scenario right. You have to assume the crew got the intel and everyone thinks they are supposed to be there unless they do something suspicious. That being said we found the scenario's incredibly easy with the equipment we had so much so that we had often just gone heroic killed everyone and essentially completed the scenario with half the time left. The game has interesting mechanics but it does feel like it needs some revisions!
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H.M. Woggle-Bug, T.E.
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I feel the goons "simplicistic" behaviour is well in the spirit of the TV show.
After all it takes an IQ in the upper double digits for a goon to stand in front of a running engine intake and threaten Mal...
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