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Subject: River Expansion Ideas rss

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James Wilson
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Hi Everyone!

I have been working hard on the River Expansion for Everdell. I feel like it adds some really fun new content to the game, both mechanically and thematically...which will stay a secret for now.

But I want to hear what you are hoping to see in this expansion! I know that the base game isn't even out yet, but in your mind, what do you hope for when you imagine an expansion that has to do with the river in Everdell?

Thanks!

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Cory Kneeland
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Somehow the current must be involved....

Not sure how, but it seems neat to think about movement and flow and time restrictive action selection.

Something to chew on.
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Jonathan Ramundi
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I'm a simple man. More cards (ie. more options, more synergies, more combos, etc.) is all I really want in expansions for card-driven games like this.

Therefore, a river-themed expansion for Everdell should include interesting new cards and mechanics that get the theme across.

Maybe a new way to arrange cards in your city for bonus points that represents a river flowing through it. You could include a long, thin card board token to represent the river and players will have to decided whether to place their cards above or below it and can't move them once they do (outside of a card ability).

Example: A ferry crossing location and critter that score bonus points if they are directly across from each other on either side of the river.
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Chris Schreiber
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Floods!!!
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greycloak wrote:
Hi Everyone!

I have been working hard on the River Expansion for Everdell. I feel like it adds some really fun new content to the game, both mechanically and thematically...which will stay a secret for now.

But I want to hear what you are hoping to see in this expansion! I know that the base game isn't even out yet, but in your mind, what do you hope for when you imagine an expansion that has to do with the river in Everdell?

Thanks!



Well, as you've said, the game is not yet out, so it's kinda hard to imagine how I'd like the game to be changed up when I haven't even played it yet.

Still, if I were to throw out an idea, Trade Boat Tiles are the first thing that come to mind. At the start of the game, place a number of randomly drawn Trade Boat Tiles on the river, in a line, equal to the number of players. Each Boat acts as an Action Space where you can exchange a good or combination of goods for other goods (perhaps even points!). Whenever, a player takes a "Prepare for Season" action, remove the boat at the front of the line, slide the remaining boats forward and add a new, random boat to the back of the line. Thematically, This gives the impression of traveling merchants trading with the residence of Everdell.

Other than that, new cards would be a plus. However, it's essential that these new cards mesh well with the existing cards. I skimmed through your Developer Diary and got the impression that the base game was in development for several years with extensive playtesting. Any new cards that don't receive a similar treatment has the potential to make the game worse off. I'm a sucker for expansions and will probably get and try it if we play the base game enough. However, I'd be wary of an expansion that comes out, say, a few weeks after the base game releases. Though, I imagine I'm preaching to the choir at this point.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. Really looking forward to playing this game. My fiance was okay with us dropping money on the Collector's Edition despite the fact that money is tight right now due to me not working as much so that I can focus on finishing up school, so props to making such a compelling game!
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Kim Williams
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Chris Schreiber wrote:
Floods!!!


I'd like to think of Everdell as somewhere a bit too lovely to have to deal with floods.

I think I'd really have to play the base game to get an idea of what I'd like from a river based expansion, but thematically I'd want it to fit in with the mood of the rest of the game, so exploring the positive sides of the river, rather than the negative ones.

"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
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Karl S.
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Some brainstorm ideas:

Fisher folks - river otters
Another food resource - fish
A Raft or ferry
A beaver and beaver dam to make a pond and lodge
Watermill to refine resources(?)
Harbor / dock to trade with other communities (market place)
Trade boat - maybe resource are random each use
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Adam Webb
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Some sort of market space, where the players' actions influence the supply/demand of available resources?

Edit:
Maybe some sort of festival / boat race?
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James Wilson
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ckneeland wrote:
Somehow the current must be involved....

Not sure how, but it seems neat to think about movement and flow and time restrictive action selection.

Something to chew on.


Hey Cory,

Can you imagine a poor little mouse trying to swim against a river's current? Yikes!

Cool idea. Thanks!

 
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James Wilson
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Jotora wrote:
I'm a simple man. More cards (ie. more options, more synergies, more combos, etc.) is all I really want in expansions for card-driven games like this.

Therefore, a river-themed expansion for Everdell should include interesting new cards and mechanics that get the theme across.

Maybe a new way to arrange cards in your city for bonus points that represents a river flowing through it. You could include a long, thin card board token to represent the river and players will have to decided whether to place their cards above or below it and can't move them once they do (outside of a card ability).

Example: A ferry crossing location and critter that score bonus points if they are directly across from each other on either side of the river.


Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for being soactive here in Everdell--I usually see you posting here.

There will certainly be new cards, but I am being very careful with this for two reasons. 1: I don't want to clog up the deck so that it becomes hard for you to find things you need. 2: I don't want any of these new cards to feel like they override older cards. This is a very tricky thing to do, because I spent so many years trying to hone and balance the cards in the base game and make all of them feel powerful and useful. So to that end, much of the new abilities of the new cards will focus on the new mechanics of the game that have to do with the river.

I did think about and try to have each player have something of a river in their own cities. Honestly, it just ended up feeling too complicated. I'm sure there is probably some clever way to do this, and your idea sounds compelling, but for now the main river area itself is a common area that all players are interacting with. Of course, it could change as development flows along.

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Chris Schreiber wrote:
Floods!!!


That's just mean...but a good idea for something Rugwort might try to pull off.
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James Wilson
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Stone of Light wrote:
greycloak wrote:
Hi Everyone!

I have been working hard on the River Expansion for Everdell. I feel like it adds some really fun new content to the game, both mechanically and thematically...which will stay a secret for now.

But I want to hear what you are hoping to see in this expansion! I know that the base game isn't even out yet, but in your mind, what do you hope for when you imagine an expansion that has to do with the river in Everdell?

Thanks!



Well, as you've said, the game is not yet out, so it's kinda hard to imagine how I'd like the game to be changed up when I haven't even played it yet.

Still, if I were to throw out an idea, Trade Boat Tiles are the first thing that come to mind. At the start of the game, place a number of randomly drawn Trade Boat Tiles on the river, in a line, equal to the number of players. Each Boat acts as an Action Space where you can exchange a good or combination of goods for other goods (perhaps even points!). Whenever, a player takes a "Prepare for Season" action, remove the boat at the front of the line, slide the remaining boats forward and add a new, random boat to the back of the line. Thematically, This gives the impression of traveling merchants trading with the residence of Everdell.

Other than that, new cards would be a plus. However, it's essential that these new cards mesh well with the existing cards. I skimmed through your Developer Diary and got the impression that the base game was in development for several years with extensive playtesting. Any new cards that don't receive a similar treatment has the potential to make the game worse off. I'm a sucker for expansions and will probably get and try it if we play the base game enough. However, I'd be wary of an expansion that comes out, say, a few weeks after the base game releases. Though, I imagine I'm preaching to the choir at this point.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. Really looking forward to playing this game. My fiance was okay with us dropping money on the Collector's Edition despite the fact that money is tight right now due to me not working as much so that I can focus on finishing up school, so props to making such a compelling game!


Oh, the trade boats are a cool idea! I like that.

Yes, I am being very careful with the new cards, and there will not be a huge amount of them. I want to preserve the integrity of the deck, and not have it become cloudy with more and more stuff. Part of the fun of Everdell is learning the whole deck and utilizing the power of potential, not just playing whatever happens to come along.

Hey, thanks so much for backing the game. I hope that you and your fiance love the Everdell, and feel like it was worth your hard earned cash. Do let me know how it goes for you!
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James Wilson
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entwife wrote:
Chris Schreiber wrote:
Floods!!!


I'd like to think of Everdell as somewhere a bit too lovely to have to deal with floods.

I think I'd really have to play the base game to get an idea of what I'd like from a river based expansion, but thematically I'd want it to fit in with the mood of the rest of the game, so exploring the positive sides of the river, rather than the negative ones.

"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."


This is exactly where my mind is as well, Kim! I think Everdell is so appealing as a place because it is wholesome and hopeful. I want the River Expansion to maintain that and build upon it.
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James Wilson
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CalvinG35 wrote:
Some brainstorm ideas:

Fisher folks - river otters
Another food resource - fish
A Raft or ferry
A beaver and beaver dam to make a pond and lodge
Watermill to refine resources(?)
Harbor / dock to trade with other communities (market place)
Trade boat - maybe resource are random each use


Hi Kari,

These are very cool ideas, and I have actually implemented a fair number of them already!

I will say that there is a new special resource in the expansion, but it is not fish. Anyone care to guess what it might be?

Funny thing, actually, we had some "serious" discussions about this behind the curtain and decided that the critters in Everdell must all be vegetarians. I mean, part of the river expansion will be exploring what creatures live beneath the water, and you can't very well be friends with someone if you eat them, right?
 
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James Wilson
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Wayfarer82 wrote:
Some sort of market space, where the players' actions influence the supply/demand of available resources?

Edit:
Maybe some sort of festival / boat race?


Hi Adam,

Thanks for the ideas--I love the thought of critters racing around in boats!

Oh, and your Everdell badge is looking very fine there, sir.
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greycloak wrote:
Stone of Light wrote:
greycloak wrote:
Hi Everyone!

I have been working hard on the River Expansion for Everdell. I feel like it adds some really fun new content to the game, both mechanically and thematically...which will stay a secret for now.

But I want to hear what you are hoping to see in this expansion! I know that the base game isn't even out yet, but in your mind, what do you hope for when you imagine an expansion that has to do with the river in Everdell?

Thanks!



Well, as you've said, the game is not yet out, so it's kinda hard to imagine how I'd like the game to be changed up when I haven't even played it yet.

Still, if I were to throw out an idea, Trade Boat Tiles are the first thing that come to mind. At the start of the game, place a number of randomly drawn Trade Boat Tiles on the river, in a line, equal to the number of players. Each Boat acts as an Action Space where you can exchange a good or combination of goods for other goods (perhaps even points!). Whenever, a player takes a "Prepare for Season" action, remove the boat at the front of the line, slide the remaining boats forward and add a new, random boat to the back of the line. Thematically, This gives the impression of traveling merchants trading with the residence of Everdell.

Other than that, new cards would be a plus. However, it's essential that these new cards mesh well with the existing cards. I skimmed through your Developer Diary and got the impression that the base game was in development for several years with extensive playtesting. Any new cards that don't receive a similar treatment has the potential to make the game worse off. I'm a sucker for expansions and will probably get and try it if we play the base game enough. However, I'd be wary of an expansion that comes out, say, a few weeks after the base game releases. Though, I imagine I'm preaching to the choir at this point.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. Really looking forward to playing this game. My fiance was okay with us dropping money on the Collector's Edition despite the fact that money is tight right now due to me not working as much so that I can focus on finishing up school, so props to making such a compelling game!


Oh, the trade boats are a cool idea! I like that.

Yes, I am being very careful with the new cards, and there will not be a huge amount of them. I want to preserve the integrity of the deck, and not have it become cloudy with more and more stuff. Part of the fun of Everdell is learning the whole deck and utilizing the power of potential, not just playing whatever happens to come along.

Hey, thanks so much for backing the game. I hope that you and your fiance love the Everdell, and feel like it was worth your hard earned cash. Do let me know how it goes for you!


Glad you like the Trade Boats idea! Feel free to use it in an expansion if you ever have the time or inclination to do so.

I, Stone of Light, hereby relinquish all claims to the concept of "Trade Boats", as described in the quoted passage above, to James Wilson and associates for use in the game "Everdell" and / or it's subsequent expansions freely with no expectation of or claim to compensation for the suggestion of said idea.

Hopefully that bit of legalese will satisfy any lawyers who would recommend against you using an idea posted by someone else on the forums. lol. (Not that I would ever attempt to claim foul if you did use the idea. I'd think it was awesome that I could contribute! However, I know how important it is for legal departments to watch out for those who would attempt to claim foul).

I'll certainly let you know how we like it. I think it's awesome that you find the time to respond to people's posts like you do. It shows a true commitment to the community that's built up around your project. I'm certainly going to keep an eye on any projects you work on in the future.
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Chris Schreiber
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greycloak wrote:
Chris Schreiber wrote:
Floods!!!
That's just mean...but a good idea for something Rugwort might try to pull off.

I didn't intend the suggestion of Floods as something mean, but as an opening for natural events that impact the building environment from turn to turn, possibly linked to seasons. For example, drawing more cards in Spring or the possibility of a drought in the Summer where drawing less cards might happen. You know, something that could change the play environment from game to game and might require strategic flexibility.

I played on creeks when I was young and there's a river near my house now; I'm amazed how much the waterside landscape can change during the course of a year. I was actually thinking of weather-related considerations to vary the play experience, event deck or otherwise. I didn't explain the implications of the idea and perhaps I should have. And I didn't see it as a player agency thing, but rather a variable condition. Like the idea of considering current (i.e. upstream and downstream).

I'm actually quite sensitive to meanness. In fact, I struggle with how the Dungeon works. It seems very eminent domain with seizure of property or citizens for profit -- but maybe I'm not seeing that right?



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Chris Schreiber
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SPATIAL RELATIONS -- Right now, there's no spatial component of how you build your city. I think the River expansion is a great time to reconsider that possibility.



For example, building along a line representing a theoretical river, with current going left to right. You could have a building that reduced the cost of all downstream buildings on that side of the river by one twig. Or you could have cards that need to be built on the river or get a bonus if built on the river. Or you could build a bridge across the river that gives a 1 point bonuses to all constructions connected?

Just an idea based on my expectation than an expansion will add a new level of consideration to play.
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Odysseus X
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Stone of Light wrote:
I think it's awesome that you find the time to respond to people's posts like you do. It shows a true commitment to the community that's built up around your project. I'm certainly going to keep an eye on any projects you work on in the future.


Lots of great ideas in this thread. I agree that it is hard to know exactly what to suggest with an expansion having not played the game yet. And there is comfort in knowing the game balance is being taken very seriously. But most of all I wanted to reflect the sentiment that it really is a privilege to support someone who is so active in the community. The fact that you've worked on this great game and then tease us with expansions but also respond to every comment with positivity means a lot. It feels nice to support someone with that attitude and I look forward to future projects.
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James Wilson
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Stone of Light wrote:
greycloak wrote:
Stone of Light wrote:
greycloak wrote:
Hi Everyone!

I have been working hard on the River Expansion for Everdell. I feel like it adds some really fun new content to the game, both mechanically and thematically...which will stay a secret for now.

But I want to hear what you are hoping to see in this expansion! I know that the base game isn't even out yet, but in your mind, what do you hope for when you imagine an expansion that has to do with the river in Everdell?

Thanks!



Well, as you've said, the game is not yet out, so it's kinda hard to imagine how I'd like the game to be changed up when I haven't even played it yet.

Still, if I were to throw out an idea, Trade Boat Tiles are the first thing that come to mind. At the start of the game, place a number of randomly drawn Trade Boat Tiles on the river, in a line, equal to the number of players. Each Boat acts as an Action Space where you can exchange a good or combination of goods for other goods (perhaps even points!). Whenever, a player takes a "Prepare for Season" action, remove the boat at the front of the line, slide the remaining boats forward and add a new, random boat to the back of the line. Thematically, This gives the impression of traveling merchants trading with the residence of Everdell.

Other than that, new cards would be a plus. However, it's essential that these new cards mesh well with the existing cards. I skimmed through your Developer Diary and got the impression that the base game was in development for several years with extensive playtesting. Any new cards that don't receive a similar treatment has the potential to make the game worse off. I'm a sucker for expansions and will probably get and try it if we play the base game enough. However, I'd be wary of an expansion that comes out, say, a few weeks after the base game releases. Though, I imagine I'm preaching to the choir at this point.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. Really looking forward to playing this game. My fiance was okay with us dropping money on the Collector's Edition despite the fact that money is tight right now due to me not working as much so that I can focus on finishing up school, so props to making such a compelling game!


Oh, the trade boats are a cool idea! I like that.

Yes, I am being very careful with the new cards, and there will not be a huge amount of them. I want to preserve the integrity of the deck, and not have it become cloudy with more and more stuff. Part of the fun of Everdell is learning the whole deck and utilizing the power of potential, not just playing whatever happens to come along.

Hey, thanks so much for backing the game. I hope that you and your fiance love the Everdell, and feel like it was worth your hard earned cash. Do let me know how it goes for you!


Glad you like the Trade Boats idea! Feel free to use it in an expansion if you ever have the time or inclination to do so.

I, Stone of Light, hereby relinquish all claims to the concept of "Trade Boats", as described in the quoted passage above, to James Wilson and associates for use in the game "Everdell" and / or it's subsequent expansions freely with no expectation of or claim to compensation for the suggestion of said idea.

Hopefully that bit of legalese will satisfy any lawyers who would recommend against you using an idea posted by someone else on the forums. lol. (Not that I would ever attempt to claim foul if you did use the idea. I'd think it was awesome that I could contribute! However, I know how important it is for legal departments to watch out for those who would attempt to claim foul).

I'll certainly let you know how we like it. I think it's awesome that you find the time to respond to people's posts like you do. It shows a true commitment to the community that's built up around your project. I'm certainly going to keep an eye on any projects you work on in the future.


Uh, you forgot to sign this with berry juice, so I'm not sure that it will stand up in the Everdell courts.
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Chris Schreiber wrote:
greycloak wrote:
Chris Schreiber wrote:
Floods!!!
That's just mean...but a good idea for something Rugwort might try to pull off.

I didn't intend the suggestion of Floods as something mean, but as an opening for natural events that impact the building environment from turn to turn, possibly linked to seasons. For example, drawing more cards in Spring or the possibility of a drought in the Summer where drawing less cards might happen. You know, something that could change the play environment from game to game and might require strategic flexibility.

I played on creeks when I was young and there's a river near my house now; I'm amazed how much the waterside landscape can change during the course of a year. I was actually thinking of weather-related considerations to vary the play experience, event deck or otherwise. I didn't explain the implications of the idea and perhaps I should have. And I didn't see it as a player agency thing, but rather a variable condition. Like the idea of considering current (i.e. upstream and downstream).

I'm actually quite sensitive to meanness. In fact, I struggle with how the Dungeon works. It seems very eminent domain with seizure of property or citizens for profit -- but maybe I'm not seeing that right?





Oh, sorry, I know you had no mean intention. Just joking with you.

I do very much like the idea of weather somehow playing a role in the lives of the critters, because you are right: it would make a huge difference for them!

On the Dungeon, my idea thematically is that the "criminals" you put in there have to help the community build new buildings as part of their punishment for their crimes. Or, if you use the ability to play a new critter, then thematically that critter in the Dungeon is being reformed somehow. Does that make sense?
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Chris Schreiber wrote:
SPATIAL RELATIONS -- Right now, there's no spatial component of how you build your city. I think the River expansion is a great time to reconsider that possibility.



For example, building along a line representing a theoretical river, with current going left to right. You could have a building that reduced the cost of all downstream buildings on that side of the river by one twig. Or you could have cards that need to be built on the river or get a bonus if built on the river. Or you could build a bridge across the river that gives a 1 point bonuses to all constructions connected?

Just an idea based on my expectation than an expansion will add a new level of consideration to play.


This is a really cool idea, and I actually tried something almost just like it. I'm sure it could work somehow, but I just found that it added more complexity than I wanted to the game. Perhaps I'll find a way to work it in at some point, because it is a nifty idea!
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OdysseusX wrote:
Stone of Light wrote:
I think it's awesome that you find the time to respond to people's posts like you do. It shows a true commitment to the community that's built up around your project. I'm certainly going to keep an eye on any projects you work on in the future.


Lots of great ideas in this thread. I agree that it is hard to know exactly what to suggest with an expansion having not played the game yet. And there is comfort in knowing the game balance is being taken very seriously. But most of all I wanted to reflect the sentiment that it really is a privilege to support someone who is so active in the community. The fact that you've worked on this great game and then tease us with expansions but also respond to every comment with positivity means a lot. It feels nice to support someone with that attitude and I look forward to future projects.


Oh, man, thank you so much for the kind words. I do love interacting with the community here; it's my pleasure to do so.

Hopefully there will be more games from me in the future. I'm actively working on it, and would love to see it become more of a full time opportunity for me at some point. For now, though, the day job is sticking around.
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I don't remember the rules well enough, but perhaps the River can be used to ship the different goods for victory points, based off of a new set of Ferry cards (like demands) that dictate what will score points.

So, ex:

Berry Shortage in the neighboring town of NeverDell.
Deliver 10 Berries for 2pts each.


Have 10 slots, and players can contribute to the Ferry as many times as they'd like filling up the 10 slots. After the 10 slots are full (or the turn is over) the Ferry sails down river.


Seems simple enough and doesn't integrate too much extra work and is thematic?
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Adonai_80 wrote:
I don't remember the rules well enough, but perhaps the River can be used to ship the different goods for victory points, based off of a new set of Ferry cards (like demands) that dictate what will score points.

So, ex:

Berry Shortage in the neighboring town of NeverDell.
Deliver 10 Berries for 2pts each.


Have 10 slots, and players can contribute to the Ferry as many times as they'd like filling up the 10 slots. After the 10 slots are full (or the turn is over) the Ferry sails down river.


Seems simple enough and doesn't integrate too much extra work and is thematic?


Oh that's a really cool idea, Nathan. I like the thematic idea of helping out other areas of the world that are in need. Very cool. Thanks!
 
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