Dwight Sullivan
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I moved this from Alex's thread just cause, words.

JayJ79 wrote:
Xaqery wrote:
SevenSpirits wrote:
Quote:
spoiler about what #27 blocks off
Spoiler (click to reveal)
As it stands if you do #27 you then do not get to do #35 nor #36 and this seems wrong. Unless he is still out there somewhere I never get to fight the Prime Demon.
I was hoping there would be help in this FAQ.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
It may be disappointing in terms of gameplay, but I don't know what you expected by closing the rift if not sealing it off from your own world.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I didn't know I was closing a rift when I started the scenario. The end of 19 Hail just wants to see the Rift. I didn't know closing the Rift would mean defeating the Prime Demon for all time.

And I really didn't know I was shutting down 6 other scenarios.

There were clues in the scenario text in the scenarios leading up to #27.

In Scenario #5:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Once you killed the cultists and their minion in the Ruinous Crypt, you are left standing in front of the rift, and are presented a choice:
Quote:
You must admit that you wonder whether you could enter the rift yourself and whether you could survive the trip to wherever that rock ended up. [scenario 10]

or
Quote:
Alternately, finding some way to close the rift is probably the more prudent decision. [scenarios 14 and 19]


Then, if you choose to go to #19, the intro text reminds you of what you're aiming to do:
Quote:
“You want to do what now?” Hail stares at you blankly. “You’ve found a rift into the Plane of Elemental Power and you want to close it?


And completing the scenario leads you to #27. And again the intro text to that one reminds you of what you are doing there:
Quote:
I’m pretty sure I can close it"


So claiming "I didn't know I was closing the rift" means that you weren't paying attention, and thus the consequences are on you.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Thank you Jay. That is good work. Maybe I should have had a clue about the rift closing.

I didn't believe it would close off all paths to the Prime Demon. Stories can do anything. Boss bad guys can show up from lots of places. There can be more rifts. He is a PRIME DEMON maybe he can do stuff. Maybe he is already on our side of the rift. Stories can always explain what it needs to explain.

When I punched the game and sorted all the bits I looked at all the bosses. I knew I would not know when they would show up but the Prime Demon was one I was really looking forward to.

Please do not get me wrong. I am having a blast. I have played over 20 scenarios and I have over a dozen unlocked and waiting for me to explore.

The other half of my point was the dismay that my choice to play #27 (which was great) would close off 6 other scenarios. This was a bit disappointing.


 
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Jay Johnson
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You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Either you have a campaign where player choices have meaningful consequences (such as opening AND/OR closing certain scenarios), or you take away those consequences and player choices mean nothing.
2 
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Clayton Threadgill
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My group has been holding off on #27 for exactly this reason. After #19, we decided to explore the rift a bit (#10) before closing it.

Spoiler for the next couple of steps in the story:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Then we followed the Prime Demon's tip and retrieved the artifact (#22). Now we're faced with a decision. We can:

36) Use the artifact against the Prime Demon.
35) Give the artifact to the Prime Demon.
27) Seal the rift forever.
21) Go back into the rift and kill the Prime Demon on his throne.

I've seen the scenario flowcharts, so I know that all of these are exclusive options - doing any one of them will seal the other 3 (with 1 exception).


Spoilers for other momentous points in the story:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
You also lock off a few options when you choose whether or not to help Jekserah, and it looks like the Voice vs Elder Drake storyline has some important decisions as well (we haven't gotten that far in that storyline yet, so I don't know the details).

 
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Xaqery wrote:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I didn't know I was closing a rift when I started the scenario. The end of 19 Hail just wants to see the Rift. I didn't know closing the Rift would mean defeating the Prime Demon for all time.

And I really didn't know I was shutting down 6 other scenarios.


No one forces you to complete a scenario. You could have simply aborted after reading the intro text.
The mercs: "Wait, what? No, let's not do that."

Most scenarios have decisions that lock you out of alternate paths. You should have noticed this as early as scenario two, iirc.

Quote:
I've seen the scenario flowcharts, so I know that all of these are exclusive options - doing any one of them will seal the other 3 (with 1 exception).


Hm, it's been a while, but I think my second group went through, beat up the demon, and then did the arc to seal the gate. I remember it striking me odd, at the time, but I figured that beating the boss was only a temporary solution and we got lucky in the order we did them.
 
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Dwight Sullivan
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JayJ79 wrote:
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Either you have a campaign where player choices have meaningful consequences (such as opening AND/OR closing certain scenarios), or you take away those consequences and player choices mean nothing.

Is this true.

I guess I believed I could be the hero, close the rift, save the day! I have stopped all demons from entering our plane. Yay!

But wait! The bad guy, using human cultist, has kidnapped my family and unless I bring the key to reopen the rift to the rooftop of this old church 3 days from today they will all die.

I think you can have a game that gives choices to lock off paths but you still always face the top boss.
 
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DeS_Tructive wrote:
No one forces you to complete a scenario. You could have simply aborted after reading the intro text.
The mercs: "Wait, what? No, let's not do that."

Most scenarios have decisions that lock you out of alternate paths. You should have noticed this as early as scenario two, iirc.

You are right. But as I said I thought there was no getting around a Boss.
 
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Jay Johnson
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You will never face all the bosses in a single campaign.
 
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michele c
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DeS_Tructive wrote:

Hm, it's been a while, but I think my second group went through, beat up the demon, and then did the arc to seal the gate. I remember it striking me odd, at the time, but I figured that beating the boss was only a temporary solution and we got lucky in the order we did them.


Yeah, you can kill the demon, then seal the rift. But you can't do it the other way around, because once the rift is closed there is no way you can reach the boss anymore.

To the OP, there are many bosses that you won't face based on your story path choices, some very famous ones come to mind:

Spoiler (click to reveal)

The Prime Demon, of course
The Captain of the Guards

Spoiler for the merchant story arch
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Jekserah

The following two are mutually exclusive:
Jekserah bodyguards
The Merciless Overseer


Some late-game boss
Spoiler (click to reveal)

The Drake




not to mention all the bosses in scenarios 52+ that you might end up never unlocking.
 
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Dwight Sullivan
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JayJ79 wrote:
You will never face all the bosses in a single campaign.

Okay okay. I know.

On the upside the game allows for casual play. I can go back and play those scenarios someday. I will wait until I have nothing else to do though. And right now I have tons. I think 4 of the last 6 Event Cards have unlocked scenarios. Plus my Cragehaeart finally did 2 scenarios in the lingering Swamp. My dance card is full.
 
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mhl7 wrote:
Yeah, you can kill the demon, then seal the rift. But you can't do it the other way around, because once the rift is closed there is no way you can reach the boss anymore.

YET! You will still fight demons even after the rift is closed. Only the Boss is locked behind it. Which is probably good for humanity.
 
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Xaqery wrote:
JayJ79 wrote:
You will never face all the bosses in a single campaign.

Okay okay. I know.

On the upside the game allows for casual play. I can go back and play those scenarios someday. I will wait until I have nothing else to do though. And right now I have tons. I think 4 of the last 6 Event Cards have unlocked scenarios. Plus my Cragehaeart finally did 2 scenarios in the lingering Swamp. My dance card is full.


Yeah man. You have the scenario book. Open it up to #36 and play it in Casual Mode. You won't break anything by doing it.
 
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DeS_Tructive wrote:
hooliganj wrote:
I've seen the scenario flowcharts, so I know that all of these are exclusive options - doing any one of them will seal the other 3 (with 1 exception).


Hm, it's been a while, but I think my second group went through, beat up the demon, and then did the arc to seal the gate. I remember it striking me odd, at the time, but I figured that beating the boss was only a temporary solution and we got lucky in the order we did them.

Yes, that's the one exception. Killing the boss inside the rift (#21) will block #35 and #36, but you can still go back and close the rift (#27). However, using the artifact to kill the boss (#36) blocks all of the others, so apparently using the artifact also seals the rift?
 
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hooliganj wrote:
DeS_Tructive wrote:
hooliganj wrote:
I've seen the scenario flowcharts, so I know that all of these are exclusive options - doing any one of them will seal the other 3 (with 1 exception).


Hm, it's been a while, but I think my second group went through, beat up the demon, and then did the arc to seal the gate. I remember it striking me odd, at the time, but I figured that beating the boss was only a temporary solution and we got lucky in the order we did them.

Yes, that's the one exception. Killing the boss inside the rift (#21) will block #35 and #36, but you can still go back and close the rift (#27). However, using the artifact to kill the boss (#36) blocks all of the others, so apparently using the artifact also seals the rift?

I dont know about most of that. I just know that if you got to #27 before #35 #36 or #21 it closes the rift and end that story. Thus blocks all them off.
 
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Xaqery wrote:
I just know that if you got to #27 before #35 #36 or #21 it closes the rift and end that story. Thus blocks all them off.
This is one of the reasons that I gave up trying to "role-play" the game and just started playing it as a suite of scenarios that I could play in a manner optimised for the scenarios that we wanted to play and the Personal Quests that we needed to achieve. I was hugely disappointed that doing the "right thing" in terms of the story turned out to be the wrong thing to do in terms of playing the game. Sure, there were clues about the rift being closed as a result, but we really didn't pick up any clues that a large branch of the scenario tree would be closed off. And even if we had, in a role-playing sense, we would still have sealed the Rift. As I said, very disappointing

When we're done with the campaign we'll be going back and running through that branch in a "what would have happened if we hadn't sealed the Rift" alternate time line micro campaign.
 
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