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Subject: Late Backer thread rss

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Barry Duran
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I can't comment on the KS since I'm a late backer - but does anybody live near the creator to find out what the deal is with his disappearing act? If we're going to get the game, just update us. If he's broke and walking away, then face the music to your investors and inform them so we can close the case on this project and be done with it. Sad such a cool looking game will disappear from someone so weak minded to not at least face us to explain what happened, where we're at and where we're going. Frank at Ludo communicated back in February there was progress on the game - so now 2 months later, what's the deal? Nobody likes losing money, but I'm sad it appears we're going to miss out on this game, the mini's look so cool.
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Crap... So is this KS going to be the first one out of more than a dozen that I'm finally going to lose all of my money on? And I thought boardgames are a safer KS bet than video games... soblue
 
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Barry Duran
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If I'm to be completely fair - there is "some" evidence the game has not been abandoned, but the current appearance of abandonment is not encouraging and pissing a lot of people off. But, yes, right now it looks like it's dead. And I just late backed it a few months ago, sunk $300 large, LOL - if I waited just a little bit longer ... well, now we know, the risk is quite high that new game companies could well be dreamers without the heart/spine/mental toughness to see their projects through. Wish there was a way to psychologically profile "newbies" up front to determine if they're losers with just a talent for digital imaging ( i.e. making a KS page look sweet ... but nothing else under the hood, the car with no engine, no interior, just a sweet looking shell ).
 
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John B
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I share your pain, except not a late backer. I was on from the start.
The DS comments section indicate that Frank at Ludofact has the project. If true, we'll get a game - whether the creator ever shows up again, I don't know. Or perhaps Dethrone Games could stop paying the bills and it flounders at Ludo. I guess it could happen.
There is also the open end of shipping fees. I am preparing to see exorbitant shipping fees if the game finally makes it to production and delivery. That would be high to recoup losses in production spending.
I'm coming up with my no-go number right now. Let's say the shipping is 25% of the cost of the game and add-ons for me, them I'm probably walking away.
In the meantime, I've got several other great games through Kickstarter.

In the end, we can't really blame anyone else. KS is speculation - buyer beware.
 
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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They may or may not be gone (Really don't know enough about the situation), but I would like to point out that there are KS projects that had creators temporarily fall off the face of the earth and still turn out just fine. They may be running (I had that happen once, actually), but they may also just be burned out and in need of an extended break to get their shit back together, it happens.
 
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Alice Stephenson
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I didn't pledge during the kickstarter because I had kind of doubts how this project would come along. Then, I think it was last December, the Late Pledge Deadline was given and I jumped in the very last day or so. At that time, I thought things would work out, now that Ludofact was choosen as producer. What happened? The Late Pledge Button is still on the Kickstarter page and the creator gone MIA.

In case Dez has some kind of health issue, I wish him the best, but else I strongly advice him to change his way to do business asap. Anyway, if you consider to Late Pledge now: don't do it, wait until this thing actually ships!
 
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Trueflight Silverwing
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I have faith that the game will eventually turn up and be shipped out. I also always expect projects like this to be delayed and have issues along the way.


I think a lot of the problem is that many people get used to seeing Kickstarter used as a pre-order/pre-sale store for companies like Cool Mini or Not. They had all intentions of releasing their game regardless of how the Kickstarter turns out and are only using it as a pre-order system to gauge an estimate of how many copies to produce in their first print run.

Smaller, private places like Dethrone Games, are using Kickstarter for what it was originally intended for. It gives these small companies the funds that they need to develop their games and actually produce them when they might not have otherwise ever been able to. Generally these are first time designers who have a lot of learning to do along the way and delays are inevitable. Add that to the extra problems and delays that occur whenever miniatures are involved and you can have a project that is delayed several years by the end.

Dez seems like the kind of person who has put his heart and soul into the game and I have a very strong belief that despite all of the trouble and delays, he will come through in the end. It just might take a bit longer than some people are willing to give him, which is understandable, but unfortunate.
 
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Alice Stephenson
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Unfortunately, this is not about the CMON loving Kickstarter noob wanting his game yesterday. Read the Kickstarter comments of the last month if you want to know more. I seriously hope that Dez will be able to get all his dugs in the row, but from what information recently turned up, questioning eyebrows are well justified.
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Barry Duran
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Point Elai wrote:
Unfortunately, this is not about the CMON loving Kickstarter noob wanting his game yesterday. Read the Kickstarter comments of the last month if you want to know more. I seriously hope that Dez will be able to get all his dugs in the row, but from what information recently turned up, questioning eyebrows are well justified.

Exactly. My post is NOT about having the game delivered today. I'm fine to get it a year from now ( ducks from shoe thrown at my head ). My point is f**king COMMUNICATE. Say SOMETHING, fricken ANYTHING. Middara is later than this thing by a year and we all love the company, the game and don't mind the delays one bit ... why, you ask? Because they communicate with the backers and are up front on everything, the delays, where they're at with everything. That's all we're asking for. It could be a once per month gig, that would be fine. But to go MIA for months with nothing for the backers - that is screwing people over time and since I can't join the fray in KS being a late backer, I'm calling Dez out here. If he was a "nice" guy, he would be communicating. The ONLY conclusion is he's a loser who gave up on his game, walked away and said nothing to nobody about it. That or he's a sadist and enjoying all of us pissed off about losing our money on his piece of shit KS. The dude is the shit on the bottom of my shoe as far as I'm concerned. Man up, loser. Post something on the KS. Talk to your backers. Not a big ask here. All he had to do was post a monthly update, explain where things are, what's going on with expected shipping date - that's all most of us want.
 
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Alice Stephenson
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Unfortunately, it is also not only about bad communication at this point. Fortunately, we know from buddy Frank Jaeger that production is actually underway. But everything else currently appears to be within a similiar range as HQ25 (that includes having a creator that loves the game). And yes, Dez would therefore be well advised to adress the actual status more openly in order to regain credibility.

@Barry [...]ducks from shoe thrown at my head[...] Lol, what? Is this a proverb?
 
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Barry Duran
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Point Elai wrote:
@Barry [...]ducks from shoe thrown at my head[...] Lol, what? Is this a proverb?

Hee, hee - well, I was anticipating some criticism from you fine people for giving the guy license to delay another year ( hence, "ducking" from objects thrown at me by others not so patient as I am ) - but I actually am ok with delays as long as the creators communicate. I'm not even asking for hourly responses like I'm seeing with some other game companies ( which is great for those companies who do that ), it could be once a month and that would be fine. If he did that, people would chill out, big time. I've seen some nice project completion bar graphs from some KS, those are really cool - but not even asking for that, just let us know what's the rub. If you ran out of money, we won't be happy, but we'll get it - we accept the risk the creators screw up on the finances and then some hard decisions have to be made on cutting back on a few things to get the game out the door. If the game is well received, then Dez can go back and do a 2nd KS ponying up any missing content from the first one.

And you know, I'm really not that pissed I'm losing my money ( lord knows I've flush far more money on way stupider ideas/things over the years, so I'll get over this fast ). What pisses me off is this cat put so much effort in designing such a BEAUTIFUL game with such a cool beautiful concept, I really love this thing. And just to shit all over it like it never happened, that REALLY sucks. I have buyer's remorse on a few KS I've backed ( it's going to happen when you back 20+ of these things ) and honestly couldn't give a shit if those creators deliver the thing or not - but this thing is way too cool not to be made. The art is so cool, the idea of demons in space - I don't know, something about space being such a great backdrop for horror resonates with me ( why I loved Alien so much ) and Dez came up with something wonderful, jumping in the deep end with space as the environment for leveraging classic horror, the fusion of sci-fi with fantasy is at once obvious, but also original since no one has come up with this before. This is daring, so it's quite bizarre and completely disconnected that someone with the vision and guts to put this out there and then give up without a whisper is beyond insult, it's disgraceful and embarrassing. Piece ... of ... shit. PIECE OF SHIT!
 
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Alice Stephenson
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I see, the ducks are still in the pond then. laugh Well, as always, let's hope for the best for the time being.
 
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Barry Duran
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Yeah, so I'm keeping up on the KS Comments and to kill time, I browsed the Campaign again and found the game-play videos at the bottom and watched them. Wow - I see such nice people playing this game with friends and family. I see pride and depth. Just does not make any sense this would go up in smoke out of nowhere. I've checked out some of the KS listed on the BGG Controversial/Fraud listings and so many of those seem like small time stuff ( few exceptions, of course, like Mage ). This thing simply doesn't "fit" into that category ... yet. The community, the engagement up until last couple of months. Strange stuff. Oh, well, I said my peace. We'll see if Dez gives a shit. He's got his copy of the game, mission accomplished.
 
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Barry Duran
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Ok - we got an update, that's great! I'm going to give the Dezster some slack and accept it - was really all I wanted. Was it light in content and kinda a quick here's where we're at and goodbye - yeah, but honestly, that's ok, I'll take it. Some of the comments on the KS were harsh imho. As long as he's not abandoned the project, I'm happy - like, for real. I can wait. Just need updates 1/month. If it takes another year, it takes another year, so be it, I have more than enough games to play with in the meantime. Maybe I'm a spoiled American who gets games with decent shipping prices, but if Dez has to up the shipping some to bring this baby home, than accept it and that's what it'll be. Again, I apologize for being insensitive, I know some countries get the shaft big time on shipping - but at this point, we need to support Dez best we can, stay positive and be respectful. My massively negative thread here was ONLY due to a lack of communication, no one can find the guy and the project genuinely appeared it could well have been abandoned. He's been found, so I'm happy again.

I am VERY sorry to hear he experienced a personal issue ( I'll leave to anyone who wants to read the update for more details - don't like spreading personal details of people's lives, let them share what they care to ). No bullshit, I do care about that and hope he and his family is able to recover.

Mr. Dez - I get it, I really do, producing/delivering a board game of this scope to 1,000+ backers has to be a logistical nightmare for a small company lacking the process/infrastructure of a large company. Stick with it, you can do this. Flip the negativity on it's side and you'll see people excited about your game, which is impressive. The dismay is at the thought they won't be able to get a copy. That's awesome and high praise. As I said above, there are a few games I couldn't care much about ever getting. I teed off because I really care about this one.

I can't post on the KS, so I'll post here hoping there's significant overlap between the KS and BGG community - but if anyone is interested in transferring their pledge at their cost to me, pm me. This would be for someone who can relinquish their KS account ( so you can't have any other KS related to your account, otherwise you'll permanently lose any history and of course is unsolvable conflict for any current projects you're backing ). So if you want your money back, you can turn over your KS and PM accounts ( I'll update them with my info ), pm me and we can strike a deal.
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J Lo
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I'm not a late backer on this project, but I do check on it once in a while, because I did consider late pledging, but decided against it. I am very glad I did not.

The poor communication, ignoring backer comments, and the repeated excuses just go on and on. First, he said he or someone in his family had the flu. Then in a later update and other comments he talks about mishandling communications or mismanaging expectations while completely ignoring other backer comments and questions. Now, the latest update he talks about losing a family member.

Some other backer commented, Dez had invited people to meet him at Gencon, but then on the day he was supposed to meet, he told people his car broke down or lost or tire.

I know nothing about Dez as I wasn't following during the campaign, and maybe all these unfortunate events keep happening, but to me it just looks like a pattern. It boggles me that some people still have faith despite repeated excuses and say "it could happen on KS." What if you took this behavior out of KS and applied it to other situations in your life? What if you bought something off Amazon, you had Prime, and something you ordered still hasn't show up for two months and you got excuses from customer service, like what Dez says? Some person you were dating? Someone you loaned some equipment for a day and when you asked for it back, a week later, they said, "sorry, I had the flu." Two more weeks go by and you still didn't get your stuff back and the guy said, "someone passed away."

I think the real tip off here is the supposedly 100-page rulebook. laugh
 
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Barry Duran
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Good points, J Lo ... guess I want the game too much to see the writing on the wall. Can't give up, just can't, game looks too cool and it's unacceptable it doesn't get made ( read: distributed to all backers ). But you're right, in other context this looks so bad, so it looks bad here too. I'm sad.
 
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Barry Duran
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I'm probably just talking to my self here at this point, which is ok, it's therapeutic - as I've heard from no one offering to transfer their pledge to me in light of a horde asking for their money back in the KS Comments.

We've received another update and that's great, imho. I don't understand the continual attacks on Dez at this point. I know I'm coming across as a giant hypocrite given I started this thread - but my ONLY ask was communication. He is communicating - fantastic. I don't see the benefit of agitating him now. For months people have been detailing their requests on the nature of the communications, but he's not adhering to those requests so at this point I think a sea of encouragement is our best path to getting the game. Tearing the guy down day after day can only put the project at risk. Repeating yourselves over and over can only hurt, not help. We need communication, we are getting communication. It's not optimal, but he's still communicating and we need that.

So, Dez, if you're reading this, A+ ... thank you for sticking with your game, if it didn't look so sweet, there wouldn't be so much emotion surrounding it's development. Many are rooting for you, keep up the fight!
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J Lo
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Honestly, it's humorous that anyone still believes there's something legit going on with this project. It's quickly approaching two years since it funded and he hasn't shown a single production mini, map tile, or card. Even resin sculpts of figs would go a long way to showing proof of actual progress.

Also, I don't know how anyone considers the "updates" an actual update. They all lack substance and repeatedly backpedal any supposed progress that Dez claimed was made. It's sad that people threw money away. A big tip-off for a scam is a creator unwilling to refund money. I know it's not always the case, but if production hasn't even started, then there's no real loss giving a refund for a product that no longer needs to be made.

But hey, it's capitalism at its finest.
 
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Barry Duran
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jloving wrote:
Honestly, it's humorous that anyone still believes there's something legit going on with this project. It's quickly approaching two years since it funded and he hasn't shown a single production mini, map tile, or card. Even resin sculpts of figs would go a long way to showing proof of actual progress.

Also, I don't know how anyone considers the "updates" an actual update. They all lack substance and repeatedly backpedal any supposed progress that Dez claimed was made. It's sad that people threw money away. A big tip-off for a scam is a creator unwilling to refund money. I know it's not always the case, but if production hasn't even started, then there's no real loss giving a refund for a product that no longer needs to be made.

But hey, it's capitalism at its finest.

Point made and it's an excellent point at that and I accept there's a good chance I'll have egg all over my face when it's clear nothing is coming. That said, if Frank at Ludo ( whoever that is ) is accurate in saying there is progress, even if it's a year out, I think our only approach with merit is positive reinforcement - as long as the communication continues. The mountain of anger will achieve nothing at best, drive him away feeling better at abandoning the project at worse. We're not "hurting" him by going nuclear in the Comments. If we chilled out and simply asked for ETA on shipping now and nothing else, he may well give us a date and then we can address him if that date's missed. I will say I'm wondering what happened to the rest of the team - that's not a good sign they're no longer around. And it would be nice if he would explain what happened, where did all the money go, etc. Anyways, now I'm talking in circles - thanks for replying, I can't talk with any on the Comments section on the KS, so good to hear from you. Keep the faith!
 
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Mlai00 Mlai00
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So... I've lost my money? The creator is MIA when it comes to refund requests? gulp
 
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J Lo
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I did not back this game, so I cannot comment on the KS either. I just think this creator is joining a line of other sadists who get off on tormenting people with nonsense. Someone who is really working on a project and trying to start a business would NOT be making excuses and would be doing everything possible to make backers happy. I would urge no one else to late back or back any future "projects" from Dethrone Games
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Alice Stephenson
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jloving wrote:
I just think this creator is joining a line of other sadists who get off on tormenting people with nonsense.

This.

As long as there is the tinest hope to fulfill, ok. If not, get your things together and tell it to the people straigth! Where we are exactely with this remains to be seen, but yeah...
 
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Barry Duran
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Mlai00 wrote:
So... I've lost my money? The creator is MIA when it comes to refund requests? gulp

I could be off on this, as I said since I'm a late backer I can't comment in KS Comments, but I think he said some time back no more refunds ( if there ever were any ).
 
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Alan Riggs

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I'm a late backer as well, and wish I could comment on KS. I'm all in and really regretting it at this point. I sent an email to Dez a couple weeks ago inquiring about a refund and it went unanswered. I know the rules of KS, but do we as late backers have any recourse? I am certainly willing to explore some options.
 
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Robert Smithwick
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If you are a Late Backer, you could go to your credit card company and file a claim against them. Since you paid for something OUTSIDE of Kickstarter, I don’t think you are subject to the same terms that you agree to in the campaign. Purely speculation, but I’d take the chance if I was ready to move on.

As for backers, I’m so sorry that this occurred to y’all. I watched the play through video they showed toward the end of the campaign and was like, “Eh, I probably don’t need this.” I’m glad I backed out at this stage and hope that y’all will get SOMETHING down the road, but I’m not holding my breath at this point.
 
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