Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
21 Posts

Scythe» Forums » Crowdfunding

Subject: Scythe’s Kickstarter; how well was it handled? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Casey Smith
Switzerland
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Heya, I found out about Scythe way after the Kickstarter, but looking at its campaign I personally feel like it was a Kickstarter done right. No exclusives, all the extras could still be bought, but separately afterwords. But how was the shipping handled? When did it hit retail in relationship of the shipping of everyone’s Kickstarter versions? How we’re late confirms handled?

Right now I am a backer of Rising Sun, it’s my first Kickstarter so like a lot of inexperienced people doing things they don’t understand, I fucked it up. I didn’t buy my extras and paid my shipping till months after the deadline. With that said, I did take care of this 5 months before they decided to release the retail version, and now that it’s been 6 months since I corrected my mistake I saw a copy of RS at my FLGS(with expansions). It actually kind of pissed me off seeing it there, and I still didn’t have my copy.

Did anyone else have this same experience with Scythe? Seems like it’s pretty common with Cmon games. Considering they crowd source a lot of their product you would think they would handle this better.

Mostly just curious if anyone had a bad time with the Scythe Kickstarter. I don’t expect it to be easy to ship out 10000 units of a game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamey Stegmaier
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We shipped out around 21,000 units of Scythe to Kickstarter backers using 5 different fulfillment centers. The delivery estimate I listed on Scythe's project page was August 2016. We started delivering games to backers in Asia and Australia in May 2016, followed by US and Canada in June and Europe/South America in July. Fulfillment was complete before August.

Scythe's retail version was available at Gen Con in August, followed by a retail release soon afterwards.

I'm not sure what a "late confirm" is. Is that when a backer takes too late to enter their address? We dealt with that on an ongoing basis, though most backers provided their information on time. If a backer didn't give me their information until August 2016, I didn't know where to send it. If a backer still hadn't sent me their information by September 2016, I refunded their pledge.

You can read in detail about how the Scythe project and fulfillment went in my blog entries about it:

https://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter/insights/insights-fr...
21 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Bonneau
United States
Brimfield
MA
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
adammal wrote:
SwissQueso wrote:
Heya, I found out about Scythe way after the Kickstarter, but looking at its campaign I personally feel like it was a Kickstarter done right. No exclusives, all the extras could still be bought, but separately afterwords. But how was the shipping handled? When did it hit retail in relationship of the shipping of everyone’s Kickstarter versions? How we’re late confirms handled?

Right now I am a backer of Rising Sun, it’s my first Kickstarter so like a lot of inexperienced people doing things they don’t understand, I fucked it up. I didn’t buy my extras and paid my shipping till months after the deadline. With that said, I did take care of this 5 months before they decided to release the retail version, and now that it’s been 6 months since I corrected my mistake I saw a copy of RS at my FLGS(with expansions). It actually kind of pissed me off seeing it there, and I still didn’t have my copy.

Did anyone else have this same experience with Scythe? Seems like it’s pretty common with Cmon games. Considering they crowd source a lot of their product you would think they would handle this better.

Mostly just curious if anyone had a bad time with the Scythe Kickstarter. I don’t expect it to be easy to ship out 10000 units of a game.


If you paid shipping late for Scythe (or any KS), literally the same thing would have happened

Scythe also had extras. Not sure what difference you are trying to call out here between Rising Sun and Scythe?



Well I mean there is the part where you can get everything from the Scythe KS retail where as you can't with any CMoN game. This is especially an issue with Rising Sun where the extras are a huge part of the appeal to the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Phelan
United States
Lake Waukomis
Missouri
flag msg tools
Scythe has nothing to do with CMON at all. I don't know why you would compare the two. No one runs a kickstarter better than Stonemaier Games.
16 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamey Stegmaier
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
adammal wrote:


If you paid shipping late for Scythe (or any KS), literally the same thing would have happened

Scythe also had extras. Not sure what difference you are trying to call out here between Rising Sun and Scythe?



With Scythe, backers paid shipping during the project as part of their pledge, not after. I sent out the backer survey immediately after the project ended (literally the same night). If a backer didn't fill out their survey for Scythe until after fulfillment began, they wouldn't have received their game (either temporarily or permanently if they still hadn't filled out their survey by September 2016, which was after mass fulfillment ended and nearly a year after the survey was initially sent).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dusty Craine
United States
Linden
Michigan
flag msg tools
https://www.youtube.com/themillshow
badge
Me
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SwissQueso wrote:
it’s been 6 months since I corrected my mistake I saw a copy of RS at my FLGS(with expansions).
It is also possible that the FLGS pledged for copies of the game too. I've seen plenty of Kickstarters with pledge levels for retailers. Or even my FLGS has had Kickstarter editions of games that didn't have retail pledges. They can put in an order for copies too. I don't know if that's what happened in your case, but it's a possibility anyway. It might not be an actual "retail" release.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
BG.EXE
United States
flag msg tools
I favor Euros, but I like pretty much all games.
badge
Make the kinds of posts you want to read.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rising Sun absolutely had retail pledge levels. Retailers pledged for the game just like backers did, and those are for sale on retail shelves.

If you paid your shipping several months late, why would you expect to jump to the front of the queue? You have to be handled separately, and after fulfillment, like all the others who didn't read the instructions included in their emails.

This is a Rising Sun question and should be in those forums.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Laudermilk
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
To answer the original question: The Scythe Kickstarter campaign is the gold standard of how to do it right. At least IMO. I am happy to see some other companies run theirs in a similar fashion (notable Roxley games). I received my copy a MONTH ahead of schedule--unheard-of! I had a small issue with incorrect Polania wooden bits which was promptly and professionally handled.

CMON is notorious with their campaigns. Lots of exclusives, tons of add-ons, spotty communication during the campaign and virtually nonexistent after. Delivery is typically late for KS. I just received my copy of Rise of Moloch; yes, it was late, yes I fell victim to the Pied Piper's call of all the cool add-ons. Also, yes the final product is stunning. I have seen that response to issues with specific cases is slow to nonexistent, and expect that this follows across all their projects.

Two different companies and two very different ways of running their campaigns.

If Stonemaier were to run another KS, I'd automatically take a look at it, and have no hesitation pledging if the game were in my wheelhouse. I really only have backed the two CMON ones I have because I found the games compelling enough to take a chance on them knowing the issues they have; most of their projects I happily ignore.

Honestly, as a backer if you don't stay on top of your pledge and make sure you respond to the surveys promptly you have no one to blame but yourself. I do see that the OP is taking responsibility for his mistake, so this is more of a general point.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Casey Smith
Switzerland
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
About retail pledges; when I went to order Gloomhaven roughly 3-4 weeks ago at my FLGS, the Clerk told me how surprised he was that he could fulfill their demand(I can’t remember the exact number but it was close or over 100). Sounded like they went thru a distributor to fulfill it. This was for the second printing of it. I’m also assuming this is including all the people that pledged thru the store and special ordered it like me.

I’ll admit that I haven’t got the slightest idea how they have a copy of RS, but I’m kind of under the impression they use a distributor, that just gives them what they can get. Tottaly possible they ordered it from CMON themselves. But I have a hard believing they knew they were going to need 100 copies of Gloomhaven.

Again, not claiming I know for certain, just the impression I get.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Casey Smith
Switzerland
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jameystegmaier wrote:
We shipped out around 21,000 units of Scythe to Kickstarter backers using 5 different fulfillment centers. The delivery estimate I listed on Scythe's project page was August 2016. We started delivering games to backers in Asia and Australia in May 2016, followed by US and Canada in June and Europe/South America in July. Fulfillment was complete before August.

Scythe's retail version was available at Gen Con in August, followed by a retail release soon afterwards.

I'm not sure what a "late confirm" is. Is that when a backer takes too late to enter their address? We dealt with that on an ongoing basis, though most backers provided their information on time. If a backer didn't give me their information until August 2016, I didn't know where to send it. If a backer still hadn't sent me their information by September 2016, I refunded their pledge.

You can read in detail about how the Scythe project and fulfillment went in my blog entries about it:

https://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter/insights/insights-fr...


Thanks for this, also I put in an order for some replacement parts I lost, thanks for fulfilling that without cost too!

Also, late confirm is paying for shipping way after the Kickstarter ends. With your system I doubt anyone had the problem I am having with CMON.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Liam
Scotland
flag msg tools
admin
badge
I am BGG's official honey trap
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Moved from General to Crowdfunding.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Turner
Australia
Melbourne
VIC
flag msg tools
From the dark depths of the ancient ocean, a kindly cetacean spirit with a penchant for board games and dumb made up bios
badge
I like themes. I like stories. I like plastic. I like brutal co-ops. I am kickstarter's whipping boy. Come game with me!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm gonna say that Stonemaier have very much set the standard for kickstarter projects. Others (Gloomhaven) have managed to match that performance since.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Jose
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
SwissQueso wrote:
About retail pledges; when I went to order Gloomhaven roughly 3-4 weeks ago at my FLGS, the Clerk told me how surprised he was that he could fulfill their demand(I can’t remember the exact number but it was close or over 100). Sounded like they went thru a distributor to fulfill it. This was for the second printing of it. I’m also assuming this is including all the people that pledged thru the store and special ordered it like me.


I forget the specifics, but wasn't there some kind of Gloomhaven kerfuffle where brick and mortar pre-orders were being effectively stolen from stores who had backed the game because they did a second round of discount funding?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dale Braun
United States
Beaverton
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As a recipient, it was amazing... it went so well, I've become more addicted to Kickstarter. I've run across one project that, through no fault of the game developer but rather the China fulfillment, has gone many months overdue.

As I told Jamey, my Kickstarter version of Scythe has become the precious gem of my game collection, and I have a number of "deluxe" versions of games.

Jamey, thanks for the stellar example of how to design, produce and support quality games. I'm a fan.

Dale
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Selwyn Hope
Australia
Cannington
WA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CMON are horrible with fulfillment and responding to customer enquiries/complaints.

Jamey at Stonemaier Games is fantastic. Active in these forums, handles any complaint quickly, AND, most importantly, didn't charge exorbitant shipping even with something as heavy as the Collector Edition of Scythe (with all that extra wood and metal coins) and you even knew what shipping was going to be when you pledged (unlike CMON who gouge you for games then charge almost the same amount for any postage outside the US).

tl;dr: Don't use Kickstarter for CMON stuff, only back/buy Stonemaier games
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Casey Smith
Switzerland
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nytmare wrote:
SwissQueso wrote:
About retail pledges; when I went to order Gloomhaven roughly 3-4 weeks ago at my FLGS, the Clerk told me how surprised he was that he could fulfill their demand(I can’t remember the exact number but it was close or over 100). Sounded like they went thru a distributor to fulfill it. This was for the second printing of it. I’m also assuming this is including all the people that pledged thru the store and special ordered it like me.


I forget the specifics, but wasn't there some kind of Gloomhaven kerfuffle where brick and mortar pre-orders were being effectively stolen from stores who had backed the game because they did a second round of discount funding?


First time I've heard of this, but I was never following the Gloomhaven kickstarter.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave S.
United States
Des Moines
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jamey Stegmaier literally wrote the book on how to run a Kickstarter. I'd expect nothing but excellence from him and Stonemaier games. Scythe was a fantastic campaign to be a part of, and was one of the best campaigns I've backed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
qess qess
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
jameystegmaier wrote:

Fulfillment was complete before August.

Scythe's retail version was available at Gen Con in August, followed by a retail release soon afterwards.



Not quite Jamey. I saw the game in retail a while before I received my copy. No reason to try and change history.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamey Stegmaier
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
qess quess: We had hundreds of retail backers. I'm 100% positive we didn't release the game into distribution until all backers had their copies (unless they were really, really late in sending me their address). So you're right, let's not change history--let's use the facts.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
qess qess
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Well game was in stores anyway, maybe from the stores backing the kickstarter, IDK. For sure it was after august 1. that delivery was completed, not before as I and other posted about it on the 10th of august... ;-) Now that's a fact.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian

Minnesota
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Scythe KS was run super well, it is a gold standard.

Too bad there won't be any more KS from Jamey for the time being. See this and the follow ons:

https://stonemaiergames.com/lessons-learned-from-quitting-ki...

Since it was brought up here, CMON is a different animal, I have backed many many CMON KS. And I've gotten everything when they finally say it will come - delays are common with manufacturing in China. The rules are different for everyone, many KS use a pledge manager like CMONs, if you don't fill those out it it's bad news for you.

If Jamey was doing even more projects and not as well he might be swamped and quality of responses might suffer. That's a personal choice it seems, and I applaud him for not biting off more then he wants to. Look at KDM - another huge KS with so-so support afterwards with issues and infrequent communication. People love to hate on CMON because it's the huge gorilla and it has it's own problems. But most folks who understand the risks do very well with their KS. I've been burned by a few, but none from CMON or Stonemaiergames.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.