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Subject: Campaign variant: People of the Beast rss

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Kipling Woods
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Tennessee
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Please, tell me what you think. Should I develop this idea further or is it a lame duck. Needless to say, this is very WIP.

This is designed to be a simple campaign variant, like 7 swordsmen or People of the Skull, with a little more oomph. Just add these rules to a basic People of the Lantern campaign. The general concept is to incentivize the building of multiple complete armor sets from different monsters. Doing so can grant you a great bonus against monsters matching the sets you have completed. The system is almost self balancing in that the bonuses get better with the number of different sets completed, which generally takes multiple lantern years of investment, but only one survivor can benefit during any given showdown. Also, access to the benefits will cost the settlement a max survival and require the spending of endeavors and resources. The benefits are good, but by the time you have completed a set of armor it is usually time to move on to the next quarry, so the choice of fighting an old quarry with greater ease and rewards vs hunting new monsters to further the settlement's options is always an interesting choice.



After slaying the prologue lion and discovering the lantern hord, the founders realize that they are no different from the beasts that hunt them. To defeat the predators, they must become the predators.



Upon completing their first set of monster specific armor, any armor set card consisting of 4 or more locations whose gear contain the armor keyword and requires resources from a specific quarry's resource deck, the settlement acquires the Beast's Totem innovation:


Beast's Totem

Faith

-1 Survival Limit


Limit once per settlement phase


Select a level 3 or higher quarry (including legendary monsters the settlement qualifies to hunt) to be the quarry for this lantern year's hunt phase, one survivor may spend an endeavor and a resource tied to the selected quarry to gain the following ability and roll a d10 on the following table. The ability and roll result apply only if the selected survivor departs wearing a completed armor set of the selected quarry and lasts until the next settlement phase or the survivor no longer has all the required pieces of armor in their gear grid.


Familiar Foe:
You are immune to intimidate AI effects.

1 Known thy enemy: You may move a number of spaces forward on the hunt track equal to the number of unique completed monster armor sets currently equipped by all survivors. If this movement causes the survivors to occupy the monster's space, ambush the monster. Usable once per hunt phase.

2-3 Anticipate its attacks: Spend a survival to gain a number of armor points equal to the number of unique completed monster armor sets equipped by all survivors to each hit location. Limit once per round.

4-6 Penetrate its defenses: During your attack, spend a survival to convert a number of your hit dice up to the number of unique completed monster armor sets equipped by all survivors into automatic hits or wound attempts into automatic wounds. Decide before rolling to hit or wound respectively. Limit once per round.

7 Strike at the weak spot:
During your attack, spend a survival to perform an automatic critical hit on the selected hit location, decide before rolling to wound. This ability may be used a number of times each round equal to the number of unique completed monster armor sets equipped by all survivors.

8-9 Claim what you kill:
Upon victory, during the aftermath you may choose a number of specific monster resources from its deck equal to the number of unique completed monster armor sets equipped by all survivors. These resources are in addition to the normal rewards for the current quarry level.

10 Apex predator:
Same as the 8-9 result, alternatively, if the survivors are equipped with 4 unique completed monster armor sets, you may select one strange resource from the monster's strange resource deck. This resource is in addition to the normal rewards for the current quarry level.



I'd also like the campaign to culminate in a post-watcher series of fights against the lvl3 or legendary versions of all the quarry monsters included in the campaign. A loss to any of these final foes will result in game over, similar to the nemesis parade concluding the sunstalker campaign. Details TBD.

The benefits of Beast's Totem may need be to be dialed back but I think the basic premise of the campaign is solid and it's a good starting point. In short, it promotes diversification, fighting higher lvl quarries, and gives incentive to build and wear multiple unique full armor sets, at least 4 for the max benefit. The abilities can result in hastening the monster's demise or assist in crit farming and resource gathering depending on the result rolled.

Also, unique armor sets refers to sets comprised from different monsters, not the unique gear keyword. For example, a party comprised of members with complete white lion, screaming antelope, phoenix, and rawhide sets would count as having 3 unique monster armor sets for the purpose of determining the bonus amount.

C and C welcomed and encouraged.













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Xris Wraith
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Sounds interesting and fairly easy to implement. Not having completed my first campaign, I can't comment on balance. But I wonder how 4 beast sets are even possible with only 3 beasts to hunt?
One needs to include a fourth quarry to make that option apex predator possible?
 
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Kipling Woods
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Exactly. At least one expansion quarry would be required if you wanted to shoot for 4 complete sets.
 
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Tom W -
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Presumably this is meant to be played with the Gorm expansion.

I like the simplicity of it, especially as a slightly 'easier' variant, but I think it would benefit from taking more darker overtones. Some more creepiness/badness that result from completing an armor set. Make the completed sets Cursed (but not irreplaceable)

--------------
Some off the cuff ideas:


When you complete the white lion armor, from then on, eveey other year he hunts/eats/murdurs 1 other survivor - whomever has the most permanent serious injuries.

When you complete the screaming antelope armor, that survivor permanently acquires the disorders of binge eating, hyperactive, delicious, prey, and anxiety. (All of them - ie always a threat, can't spend survival unless insane, starts as priority target, plus binge eating and hyperactive)

When you complete Phoenix armor, everyone gets additional +1 to the hunt xp each battle.

----------

Maybe some darker stuff to dissuade rawhide and leather?

when you finish the rawhide or leather armor, your settlement automatically switches to the Cannabalize death principle except you ONLY get hide or leather (as opposed to a random draw from the resource deck) furthermore, after the Kingsman nemesis, the rawhide survivor automatically gets the 1st Regal armor piece "underneath" their rawhide. , and when complete they become a Butcher. They then dash off into the darkness and return as a Level 3 butcher special nemesis event 2 years later
(Eliminate the normal Butcher nemesis events)


-----------

I'm not sure what to do with Gorm armor. I'm sure you can think of something suitably dark and terrible. Maybe something to do with weather.

as addition or alternative to the level 3 monster parade at the end, Maybe a level 3 lion God might be an idea?
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André Silveira
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kipling451 wrote:
Please, tell me what you think. Should I develop this idea further or is it a lame duck. Needless to say, this is very WIP.

This is designed to be a simple campaign variant, like 7 swordsmen or People of the Skull, with a little more oomph. Just add these rules to a basic People of the Lantern campaign. The general concept is to incentivize the building of multiple complete armor sets from different monsters. Doing so can grant you a great bonus against monsters matching the sets you have completed. The system is almost self balancing in that the bonuses get better with the number of different sets completed, which generally takes multiple lantern years of investment, but only one survivor can benefit during any given showdown. Also, access to the benefits will cost the settlement a max survival and require the spending of endeavors and resources. The benefits are good, but by the time you have completed a set of armor it is usually time to move on to the next quarry, so the choice of fighting an old quarry with greater ease and rewards vs hunting new monsters to further the settlement's options is always an interesting choice.



After slaying the prologue lion and discovering the lantern hord, the founders realize that they are no different from the beasts that hunt them. To defeat the predators, they must become the predators.



Upon completing their first set of monster specific armor, any armor set card consisting of 4 or more locations whose gear contain the armor keyword and requires resources from a specific quarry's resource deck, the settlement acquires the Beast's Totem innovation:


Beast's Totem

Faith

-1 Survival Limit


Limit once per settlement phase


Select a level 3 or higher quarry (including legendary monsters the settlement qualifies to hunt) to be the quarry for this lantern year's hunt phase, one survivor may spend an endeavor and a resource tied to the selected quarry to gain the following ability and roll a d10 on the following table. The ability and roll result apply only if the selected survivor departs wearing a completed armor set of the selected quarry and lasts until the next settlement phase or the survivor no longer has all the required pieces of armor in their gear grid.


Familiar Foe:
You are immune to intimidate AI effects.

1 Known thy enemy: You may move a number of spaces forward on the hunt track equal to the number of unique completed monster armor sets currently equipped by all survivors. If this movement causes the survivors to occupy the monster's space, ambush the monster. Usable once per hunt phase.

2-3 Anticipate its attacks: Spend a survival to gain a number of armor points equal to the number of unique completed monster armor sets equipped by all survivors to each hit location. Limit once per round.

4-6 Penetrate its defenses: During your attack, spend a survival to convert a number of your hit dice up to the number of unique completed monster armor sets equipped by all survivors into automatic hits or wound attempts into automatic wounds. Decide before rolling to hit or wound respectively. Limit once per round.

7 Strike at the weak spot:
During your attack, spend a survival to perform an automatic critical hit on the selected hit location, decide before rolling to wound. This ability may be used a number of times each round equal to the number of unique completed monster armor sets equipped by all survivors.

8-9 Claim what you kill:
Upon victory, during the aftermath you may choose a number of specific monster resources from its deck equal to the number of unique completed monster armor sets equipped by all survivors. These resources are in addition to the normal rewards for the current quarry level.

10 Apex predator:
Same as the 8-9 result, alternatively, if the survivors are equipped with 4 unique completed monster armor sets, you may select one strange resource from the monster's strange resource deck. This resource is in addition to the normal rewards for the current quarry level.



I'd also like the campaign to culminate in a post-watcher series of fights against the lvl3 or legendary versions of all the quarry monsters included in the campaign. A loss to any of these final foes will result in game over, similar to the nemesis parade concluding the sunstalker campaign. Details TBD.

The benefits of Beast's Totem may need be to be dialed back but I think the basic premise of the campaign is solid and it's a good starting point. In short, it promotes diversification, fighting higher lvl quarries, and gives incentive to build and wear multiple unique full armor sets, at least 4 for the max benefit. The abilities can result in hastening the monster's demise or assist in crit farming and resource gathering depending on the result rolled.

Also, unique armor sets refers to sets comprised from different monsters, not the unique gear keyword. For example, a party comprised of members with complete white lion, screaming antelope, phoenix, and rawhide sets would count as having 3 unique monster armor sets for the purpose of determining the bonus amount.

C and C welcomed and encouraged.















I like it! Nicely done! Really!
It makes the game easier, though, the way the bonus are.
Once per ROUND is a bit too much for the battle abilities! I mean, if I finish one lion and one antilope armor (by lantern year 7-8 it's doable) then I may autocrit 2 wound attempts PER ROUND if I got an 7 or I may autowound 2 times PER ROUND with 5-6. This ignores the defense of the monster. A dagger that hits a lot but never wounds would be a beast of a weapon, and a grand weapon that hardly hits but always wound would be a beast! that's too easy and may spoil the game.
Also, the ability number 1 is too good. I mean, if you're not unlucky to draw a card that moves the monster, you may skip overwhelming darkness with consistency and/or ambush the monster always. And that makes the fight too easy, 8 attacks (with surge) before the monster even move! 4 of these attacks potentialy from blind spot.
It's like Tom W. said. You need some drawbacks. Something to reduce the effectiveness of these abilities.
For starters, the battle abilities should all of them be "once per showdown". And believe me, that would make the game a lot easier.
The first ability should read that in your hurry, you have to do twice as many hunt events from your spot until the beast, but ignoring beast movement.
And the 8-9 should not be "choose your reward", but instead of getting basic resources from the deck, you swap the number of complete armors for the monster deck. I mean. Level 1 lion is 4 basic 4 lion. With two sets, you get 2 basic 6 lion. You get a bump, but without breaking the game (this ability is TOO good to use this way).

What do you think?
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Kipling Woods
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Dialing back the abilities is definitely likely. Keep in mind, you have to select a lvl 3 quarry to endeavor there so you can't gain the abilities on lvl 1 or 2 fights. That makes the resource gains a little less powerful, and you have to spend one resource of the appropriate type to endeavor as well. The number 1 ability was never meant to bypass overwhelming darkness. It follows the regular rules for hunt movement in that regard.

The specific ability bonuses will need to be ironed out with some playtesting.

I definitely agree that the campaign needs some darkness splashed in. I'm thinking about introducing mechanics to the nemesis encounters to make them a little more brutal.

Some other ideas:
Make the totem have an initial build cost. Like 1 resource from each of the huntable quarries with armor sets in the campaign. Once the totem has been constructed, no additional quarries may be introduced. For example, say you are going to play with the lion, gorm, screaming antelope, and Phoenix. You would have to fight each of those monsters once, usually, to get at least one monster specific resource from eachto pay for the innovation.

Also, maybe the combat abilities stay very potent, but endeavoring at the totem gives you a status card for the showdown. Everytime you use an ability you put a token on the card. Using an ability costs an amount of survival equal to the number of tokens on the card plus 1.
 
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André Silveira
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kipling451 wrote:
Dialing back the abilities is definitely likely. Keep in mind, you have to select a lvl 3 quarry to endeavor there so you can't gain the abilities on lvl 1 or 2 fights. That makes the resource gains a little less powerful, and you have to spend one resource of the appropriate type to endeavor as well. The number 1 ability was never meant to bypass overwhelming darkness. It follows the regular rules for hunt movement in that regard.

The specific ability bonuses will need to be ironed out with some playtesting.

I definitely agree that the campaign needs some darkness splashed in. I'm thinking about introducing mechanics to the nemesis encounters to make them a little more brutal.

Some other ideas:
Make the totem have an initial build cost. Like 1 resource from each of the huntable quarries with armor sets in the campaign. Once the totem has been constructed, no additional quarries may be introduced. For example, say you are going to play with the lion, gorm, screaming antelope, and Phoenix. You would have to fight each of those monsters once, usually, to get at least one monster specific resource from eachto pay for the innovation.

Also, maybe the combat abilities stay very potent, but endeavoring at the totem gives you a status card for the showdown. Everytime you use an ability you put a token on the card. Using an ability costs an amount of survival equal to the number of tokens on the card plus 1.


I like the status card.
Yeah. I know it's for lvl3 only. I used the lvl1 as example because that's the only one I know with my eyes closed! hahahhaha
But specially because it's vs lvl3 you'll have what? 8-10 survival limit by that time. Spending only one to autocrit 3 times is TOO powerfull. Doing that once per round? Nuts!
I'd say that during the fight you should have a chance for error. Like 4+ you get the ability but 1-3 you are fucked! That at least throw some tension in the decision. I mean. You may know your prey, but it also has some inteligence.

Maaaan I wanna go home and try it out! I have a settlement on year 15 that's perfect to try this one (ok, only 3 quarries, but that's a start).
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Kipling Woods
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Thanks for taking the time to provide feedback.

Another idea similar to your suggestion is a push your luck mechanic. Like a roll you have to make everytime you use an ability that increases in difficulty with each use. Fail the roll and you have to archive a piece of armor, breaking your set bonus and losing the endeavor bonuses. Since your fighting the monster that matches the set, you hopefully have a good chance of getting enough resources to rebuild the piece after the showdown but of course it's not guaranteed.
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André Silveira
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kipling451 wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to provide feedback.

Another idea similar to your suggestion is a push your luck mechanic. Like a roll you have to make everytime you use an ability that increases in difficulty with each use. Fail the roll and you have to archive a piece of armor, breaking your set bonus and losing the endeavor bonuses. Since your fighting the monster that matches the set, you hopefully have a good chance of getting enough resources to rebuild the piece after the showdown but of course it's not guaranteed.


I truly dislike push your luck in a game that is so punitive and strategic.
I believe you are in a good way to an excelent variant!

Keep up the imagination (mine goes only so far).
 
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Brian Church

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laucion wrote:
kipling451 wrote:
Please, tell me what you think. Should I develop this idea further or is it a lame duck. Needless to say, this is very WIP.
...


I like it! Nicely done! Really!
It makes the game easier, though, the way the bonus are.
Once per ROUND is a bit too much for the battle abilities! I mean, if I finish one lion and one antilope armor (by lantern year 7-8 it's doable) then I may autocrit 2 wound attempts PER ROUND if I got an 7 or I may autowound 2 times PER ROUND with 5-6. This ignores the defense of the monster. A dagger that hits a lot but never wounds would be a beast of a weapon, and a grand weapon that hardly hits but always wound would be a beast! that's too easy and may spoil the game.
Also, the ability number 1 is too good. I mean, if you're not unlucky to draw a card that moves the monster, you may skip overwhelming darkness with consistency and/or ambush the monster always. And that makes the fight too easy, 8 attacks (with surge) before the monster even move! 4 of these attacks potentialy from blind spot.
It's like Tom W. said. You need some drawbacks. Something to reduce the effectiveness of these abilities.
For starters, the battle abilities should all of them be "once per showdown". And believe me, that would make the game a lot easier.
The first ability should read that in your hurry, you have to do twice as many hunt events from your spot until the beast, but ignoring beast movement.
And the 8-9 should not be "choose your reward", but instead of getting basic resources from the deck, you swap the number of complete armors for the monster deck. I mean. Level 1 lion is 4 basic 4 lion. With two sets, you get 2 basic 6 lion. You get a bump, but without breaking the game (this ability is TOO good to use this way).

What do you think?


I agree with this that the Totem abilities should be dialed back from once per round. It should be once per showdown per unique set, I think. Otherwise, if you head out with 4 people, 3-4 sets of armor, and like 6-7 survival apiece, the showdown could be over very very quickly.

The things Kipling's comment misses are 1) LY 7-8 is not when you start fighting Lv3 or legendary monsters, so that's not really an issue 2) jumping forward on hunt track cannot skip Overwhelming Darkness per The Rules, and 3) surge shouldn't give the benefits of Totem more than once per round unless you were somehow stacking the bonus on one person; I assume you couldn't do this because of 1/round survival action rules...

I was thinking that:

-You could limit Totem abilities to only those actually wearing the armor sets? Seems thematically appropriate, but may break the mechanic you are shooting for.
-- Totem 4 - 6 should apply to hits only, not wounds
-- Totem 7 should be limited to once per showdown as stated by others
-- Totem 2-3 should be limited to on-departure, rather than usable once per round in showdown. Also I'd probably increase to 2 survival or 1 survival +
1 endeavor or something. Alternatively, if used in showdown, maybe add evasion tokens equal to the number unique sets, which are removed at beginning of next player turn? The rule would allow for stacking and stacking of armor so that you could have a tank with +12 armor points above their base (i.e., full set + bonus + shield, etc.), which seems extreme
-- Totem 8-10 seems a little underpowered relative to other bonuses; maybe change roll rule that you gain benefits of all numbers up to the die roll? You'd still be limited by survival, so having access to multiple tactics wouldn't be too OP.

Overall, I really like this variant idea. Good work!
 
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André Silveira
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churchb33 wrote:
laucion wrote:
kipling451 wrote:
Please, tell me what you think. Should I develop this idea further or is it a lame duck. Needless to say, this is very WIP.
...


I like it! Nicely done! Really!
What do you think?


I agree with this that the Totem abilities should be dialed back from once per round. It should be once per showdown per unique set, I think. Otherwise, if you head out with 4 people, 3-4 sets of armor, and like 6-7 survival apiece, the showdown could be over very very quickly.
Overall, I really like this variant idea. Good work!


If I could crit with 100% of certainty, I'd fight level3 earlier, for sure! Imagine if you could insta kill with the right Hit Locations. That's easy farming. But I returned to see and yes, you select the monster before rolling, so that may backfire. =D
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Biff Drinkwater
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Some problems with Totem 10.

1) Monsters don't really have a strange resource deck, so you'd need to change the wording on this.

2) Since you're fighting the monster at level 3+, in most cases you're already getting all of their strange resources. Since most strange resources only have 1 copy you wouldn't be able to gain any more than you did by beating them anyway. I know DBK is an exception because he has multiple copies of his strange resources in the deck, and the DK has a level 2 exclusive strange resource.
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Liam
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Moved from General to Variants.
 
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