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Subject: Rules clarification rss

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Marcel Stipetic
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Drawing MacKenzie Flood Basalts and Nitrogen Famine sequentially destroyed 9 of the earth's 10 refugiums. Despite this, life was able to take hold with two terrestrial organisms, and the primordial soup was able to phosphorylate chemiosmotically! Way to go, Mother Nature. Sorry for the grainy nature of the picture; it was late, real late.



Though I think I played it mostly correctly, I have a few questions.
1. I drew Gaia Ozone Layer about mid-game (Ignore UV events until the end of the game). Later I drew Comet Impactor (Ignore ozone layer this turn). I know it sounds kind of obvious, but can someone confirm that radiation from the Comet Impactor makes it through to earth? That's the way I played it (lost a mutation and an organ because of it).
2. I created a micro-organism with the ability to photo-carboxylate, and had 4 bionts inside. Can I buy 2 mutations and promote 1 other (i.e. basically buff up my micro-organism), and with my last purchase spend a catalyst to evolve it not only into a marine macro-organism, but directly to make landfall (into an amphibian in this case as I had enough surplus cubes to fill all organ slots in the marine organism right away)?
3. I used my HGT ability to move a green biont from my acetyl-CoA Reductase organism to the photo-carboxylation organism (as it had 2 red and 2 blue bionts, and wanted to add a third color), and a red one went the other way because the blue biont was in both organisms. The HGT ability was on the acetyl-CoA reductase organism; at the time, the cosmic landform was active, however the ocean was not. Was this a legal move? BTW, can the HGT be used at any time and is it free (I played it during the biont assignment phase, but did not pay any catalysts for it).
4. My insects suffered an atrophy due to a drought, and only had bionts inside. So I got rid of the yellow endosymbiont. As I assumed proteobacteria (yellow parasite)had gone extinct, I did not revive it and played the rest of the game (3-4 turns) without parasites (the other one had also been absorbed as an endosymbiont). Is this correct?
5. Why should we place NPC bionts on top of cubes? Is there a situation where NPC bionts can be confused for a player biont in the solo game?
6. Pollution: this only affects other organisms that share the same landform as the polluter, right? In the solo game, it's basically a good way to damage a parasite without green cubes to defend itself with, correct?

I think I had another question, but I can't recall it at the moment. Any guidance is appreciated.
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Adam Gastonguay
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I don't have the rules in front of my, so I'm pulling these answers out of my own Green Rust Fumarole, if you get my drift.

Poisonguy wrote:

Though I think I played it mostly correctly, I have a few questions.
1. I drew Gaia Ozone Layer about mid-game (Ignore UV events until the end of the game). Later I drew Comet Impactor (Ignore ozone layer this turn). I know it sounds kind of obvious, but can someone confirm that radiation from the Comet Impactor makes it through to earth? That's the way I played it (lost a mutation and an organ because of it).


Yup, the comet destroyed the Ozone layer briefly, letting in the harmful UV rays for that turn. You burn, baby, burn.

Quote:

2. I created a micro-organism with the ability to photo-carboxylate, and had 4 bionts inside. Can I buy 2 mutations and promote 1 other (i.e. basically buff up my micro-organism), and with my last purchase spend a catalyst to evolve it not only into a marine macro-organism, but directly to make landfall (into an amphibian in this case as I had enough surplus cubes to fill all organ slots in the marine organism right away)?


You would need to make another purchase to go from marine to terrestrial animal, I believe. But then again, now that I think about it, maybe you don't. No. I think as soon as you have enough you pop into terrestrial existence, so yeah, you'd be auto-terrestrial, wouldn't you? Nifty.

Quote:

3. I used my HGT ability to move a green biont from my acetyl-CoA Reductase organism to the photo-carboxylation organism (as it had 2 red and 2 blue bionts, and wanted to add a third color), and a red one went the other way because the blue biont was in both organisms. The HGT ability was on the acetyl-CoA reductase organism; at the time, the cosmic landform was active, however the ocean was not. Was this a legal move? BTW, can the HGT be used at any time and is it free (I played it during the biont assignment phase, but did not pay any catalysts for it).


HGT is done during the assignment phase and yes, it is free. It doesn't happen any other time. You can move TO and FROM only active rows/targets. If you couldn't PLACE a biont there, you can't MOVE a biont there.

Quote:

4. My insects suffered an atrophy due to a drought, and only had bionts inside. So I got rid of the yellow endosymbiont. As I assumed proteobacteria (yellow parasite)had gone extinct, I did not revive it and played the rest of the game (3-4 turns) without parasites (the other one had also been absorbed as an endosymbiont). Is this correct?


Naw. As soon as the NPC gets its biont back, it's back on the prowl. At least, that's how I play it.

Quote:

5. Why should we place NPC bionts on top of cubes? Is there a situation where NPC bionts can be confused for a player biont in the solo game?


That's for the co-op game where one of the player's own color's bionts are used as the NPC. It's not necessary for a solo game.

Quote:

6. Pollution: this only affects other organisms that share the same landform as the polluter, right? In the solo game, it's basically a good way to damage a parasite without green cubes to defend itself with, correct?


I believe it affects the home row of the polluter. And yes, you could kill a parasite with it. It could also kill you, too, however .

Quote:

I think I had another question, but I can't recall it at the moment. Any guidance is appreciated.


The answer was yes. Now just think of the question.
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David Fenton
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Poisonguy wrote:
3. I used my HGT ability to move a green biont from my acetyl-CoA Reductase organism to the photo-carboxylation organism (as it had 2 red and 2 blue bionts, and wanted to add a third color), and a red one went the other way because the blue biont was in both organisms. The HGT ability was on the acetyl-CoA reductase organism; at the time, the cosmic landform was active, however the ocean was not. Was this a legal move? BTW, can the HGT be used at any time and is it free (I played it during the biont assignment phase, but did not pay any catalysts for it).

How did your red biont get from photo-carboxylation to acetyl-CoA Reductase? Did you have another microorganism with the HGT icon? A player cannot move another color of biont with HGT (even in solo), so red has to own an organism (or have a foreign gene in one) with HGT in order to move a red biont.
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Marcel Stipetic
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At the time I performed this action, the RED organism had the HGT icon; it also had a RED and BLUE biont (the solo colors I played) and had absorbed both parasite bionts, so it also had GREEN and YELLOW bionts. RED organism occupies the OCEAN landform.

The BLUE organism had 4 bionts as well; 2 BLUE and 2 RED. BLUE occupies the COSMIC landform.

Basically, both organisms have RED and BLUE bionts.

Only the COSMIC landform, of the two, was active at the time.

My reasoning, and I don't feel I understand this rule well, is that since both a BLUE and RED biont inhabited the organism with HGT icon, both had access to it. So, RED moved one of its bionts from BLUE back into the RED micro-organism; and BLUE moved a YELLOW biont from the RED micro-organism into its BLUE micro-organism. Now that I reread the rules, this last shift is definitely wrong as BLUE can only move BLUE bionts with HGT.

What confuses me in the rules is the lumping together of movement of bionts from and to Refugium and Micro-organisms when discussing HGT. It would be less confusing if the rules addressed each separately.

Other than making the obvious mistake with the YELLOW biont, does the rest hold up?
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David Fenton
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Ok. From your original post I didn't realize that acetyl-CoA Reductase already had a red (since you were moving a red there I assumed you didn't). Sounds like you did things right.

Additionally, blue can't move a yellow biont...but yellow can simply move itself (once in your organism you get to control yellow and green). So it seems like you didn't break any rules.


To ease your confusion regarding refugium / micro-organisms:

Realize that although physically located in front of you or others, microorganisms still technically "live" in their home row.
If you have a biont in a refugia or microorganism, that row (or home row if microorganism) can be considered active for purposes of biont / enzyme placement.

Buying mutations is a bit different since only the home row of the microorganism you're buying for is considered active (along with any rows that are normally active, of course).

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Marcel Stipetic
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Thanks David and Adam. You've both been extremely useful. I rolled well yesterday; we'll see what tomorrow brings.
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Felipe Cea García
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All references has been taken from Living Rules, Version: Feb 24, 2018

Poisonguy wrote:

1. I drew Gaia Ozone Layer about mid-game (Ignore UV events until the end of the game). Later I drew Comet Impactor (Ignore ozone layer this turn). I know it sounds kind of obvious, but can someone confirm that radiation from the Comet Impactor makes it through to earth? That's the way I played it (lost a mutation and an organ because of it).


Yes, you are right; by D1, page 9:

Ozone Layer Formation. When this occurs, for the rest of the game ignore UV events (D7), except that if the Comet Impactor (card 51) occurs, it punches a hole in the ozone layer allowing UV events for that turn only.

Poisonguy wrote:

2. I created a micro-organism with the ability to photo-carboxylate, and had 4 bionts inside. Can I buy 2 mutations and promote 1 other (i.e. basically buff up my micro-organism), and with my last purchase spend a catalyst to evolve it not only into a marine macro-organism, but directly to make landfall (into an amphibian in this case as I had enough surplus cubes to fill all organ slots in the marine organism right away)?


Yes you are right again, landfall is automatic one you have the required organs.

By H3. MACROORGANISM PURCHASE <advanced> (Bacteria only)

Organs. The colored squares are used to hold cubes called Organs. If you have more Chromosomes than required to purchase, convert each into an Organ cube of the same color, placed on the card in a square of the right color (if any. If not, then they are discarded). If all the Organs are filled, you make landfall (H5) without paying any catalysts.

combined with H5. ORGAN PURCHASE <advanced> (Macroorganisms only)

Landfall. If you have a marine Macroorganism with all its Organs filled, automatically flip it to its terrestrial side and enter the terrestrial ecosystem per H6. All cubes for Organs and all disks for Vitamins and Antioxidants are lost to the soup. All Bionts become either the Trophic Biont or an Endosymbiont.

Poisonguy wrote:

3. I used my HGT ability to move a green biont from my acetyl-CoA Reductase organism to the photo-carboxylation organism (as it had 2 red and 2 blue bionts, and wanted to add a third color), and a red one went the other way because the blue biont was in both organisms. The HGT ability was on the acetyl-CoA reductase organism; at the time, the cosmic landform was active, however the ocean was not. Was this a legal move? BTW, can the HGT be used at any time and is it free (I played it during the biont assignment phase, but did not pay any catalysts for it).


EDITED (thanks to dsdhornet for the clarification)

The movement WAS legal. By E6. MOVING BIONTS VIA HGT (Microorganisms only):

You may move one Biont of your color for each HGT icon you have. Your Biont must move from one Microorganism (in any row) to another Microorganism or Refugium in either an active row (D2) or a row where you have a Biont (either in a Refugium or in an Organism with that home row (E2) including the microorganism it just moved from). Alternately, you can move your Biont into your pool (without compensation)

So, green biont (the one you moved from red organism)can use HGT ability on its asigment turn, but it plays by itself without taking into consideration the other bionts under your control (solo game) for HGT movement porpouses, so, as blue organism's home row was active (Cosmic)it doesn't matter if there was or not any other green biont on the target bacteria or any other in the same home row than the target bacteria.

Poisonguy wrote:

4. My insects suffered an atrophy due to a drought, and only had bionts inside. So I got rid of the yellow endosymbiont. As I assumed proteobacteria (yellow parasite)had gone extinct, I did not revive it and played the rest of the game (3-4 turns) without parasites (the other one had also been absorbed as an endosymbiont). Is this correct?


Yes again, once you absorb an NPC biont as Foreign Gene / endobiont through a Red Qeen attack to the parasite it becomes friendly; and if it suffers and athrophy it is just only removed from the game. However in another thread somebody asked the same and other players proposed a home rule variation of transfering it to the NPC again in order to increase the game difficulty but I have never tried that option.

Poisonguy wrote:

5. Why should we place NPC bionts on top of cubes? Is there a situation where NPC bionts can be confused for a player biont in the solo game?


I don't understand either, I asume is only for a more clear visualialization porpous but I never do it.

Poisonguy wrote:

6. Pollution: this only affects other organisms that share the same landform as the polluter, right? In the solo game, it's basically a good way to damage a parasite without green cubes to defend itself with, correct?


Again yes, by H1. NEW MUTATION PURCHASE:

Pollution. If you purchase a Mutation or attach (E3) or romote (E2) a Parasite with the “Pollution!” effect, that mutated Organism makes an immediate oxygen spike attack against all other Organisms (including Hosts and Parasites) that share its home row. The spike attack is per (D6) except the attack extremity is equal to the number of the polluter’s green Chromosomes (Entropy).


Regards.


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David Fenton
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Anshir wrote:
Poisonguy wrote:

3. I used my HGT ability to move a green biont from my acetyl-CoA Reductase organism to the photo-carboxylation organism (as it had 2 red and 2 blue bionts, and wanted to add a third color), and a red one went the other way because the blue biont was in both organisms. The HGT ability was on the acetyl-CoA reductase organism; at the time, the cosmic landform was active, however the ocean was not. Was this a legal move? BTW, can the HGT be used at any time and is it free (I played it during the biont assignment phase, but did not pay any catalysts for it).


The movement wasn't legal. By E6. MOVING BIONTS VIA HGT (Microorganisms only):

You may move one Biont of your color for each HGT icon you have. Your Biont must move from one Microorganism (in any row) to another Microorganism or Refugium in either an active row (D2) or a row where you have a Biont (either in a Refugium or in an Organism with that home row (E2) including the microorganism it just moved from). Alternately, you can move your Biont into your pool (without compensation)

So, green biont (the one you moved)can use HGT ability on its asigment turn, but it plays by itself; you can't take into consideration the other bionts under your control (solo game) for HGT movement porpouses, so, as there wasn't any other green biont on the target bacteria or any other in the same home row than the target bacteria the only legal movent would have required photo-carboxylation home row (ocean) to be active.

This movement is legal.

Photo-carboxylation has a cosmic home row (which was active), not an ocean home row. So the transfer was between an organism with biont present (in an inactive home row) and an organism in an active home row.
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Felipe Cea García
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You are rigth, I crossed the home row of both baterias. My mistake, apologize, I have edited my post above. Thanks for the carifification.

Regards
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Marcel Stipetic
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Thanks a lot, Felipe. You guys are awesome. The feedback's been great and has cleared up the issues I was uncertain about.

I might come back with some questions on Megafauna 2 (in the proper forum). I just got spanked on the Mars solo variant. The marks are deep. Had three plant species go extinct in one fell swoop. Man, that's a tough one.
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Adam Gastonguay
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Mars is tough. It takes a few plays just to last through the game, let alone win. I still get stomped from time to time still, so don't fret. You'll get there .
 
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Marcel Stipetic
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Thanks Adam. I'm sure I'll figure a decent strategy. Whether the events give me a break, though...

BTW, I just, just finished reading your play through of Bios Megafauna 2 on your blog and posted a comment.
 
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Adam Gastonguay
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Poisonguy wrote:
Thanks Adam. I'm sure I'll figure a decent strategy. Whether the events give me a break, though...

BTW, I just, just finished reading your play through of Bios Megafauna 2 on your blog and posted a comment.


I'll go check it out. Keep in mind that playthrough was before the rules were finalized AND I put all the discs on the wrong-freaking-side of the cratons, so there's quite a few things wrong with the game. I should probably update it to include the proper rules....
 
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