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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: FFG trying to fix what they broke rss

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Jeff
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Warning, a bit of venting follows:

We all saw this coming! FFG is now trying to fix things that they broke. The Servomotor S-Foils is a good example of this. There was a time when the game was working just fine, and the T-65 X-Wing was one of the ships of interest. As time passed FFG ruined this - meddle with a good thing long enough and this is bound to happen.

To keep the famous and iconic T-65 X-Wing space fighter of interest to players, FFG has to find ways to fix what they messed up. Basically, isn't that what Servomotor S-Foils is really doing? Unless of course they planned to add more unnecessary complexity to what is supposed to be a simple basic game system. No wonders newbies shy away from this game.

Also, its another way to just slap together something to sell to the masses that will buy anything and everything.

Ranting done. Now for your flaming to begin!
 
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Derry Salewski
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I mean...when was non biggs x-wing great? Wave 2?

They took the game in directions they couldn't have known they'd go.

The x-wing got left behind and it was always kinda behind anyway.

Most army building games and collectible games have issues like this and good companies keep good games pretty good.

Unless you have a time machine (personally if I keep playing I'm going to scale back to wave 4ish-that's the ships I like, though I'll keep cool scum ships but will use whatever upgrades I feel like) all ffg can do is try to make people happy amd fix things. Um...what's your actual complaint? You kinda missed voicing anything.

(I agree there's some shark junmping if you're just keeping up casually.)
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Bart De Vuyst
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scifiantihero wrote:
Most army building games and collectible games have issues like this and good companies keep good games pretty good.


+1

If you don't like the constant evolution of this game you can always play with a few waves. Limit things to wave 1-3 only, for instance. It's refreshing.
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Jeff Brewer
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I’m hoping that, at some point, FFG release “X-Wing 2.0”, and revisits all the ships from all the waves, and updates them to reflect all the new rules and abilities that have been added to the game over time, for better game balance.
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Deathmvp Deathmvp
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Nestyr wrote:
I’m hoping that, at some point, FFG release “X-Wing 2.0”, and revisits all the ships from all the waves, and updates them to reflect all the new rules and abilities that have been added to the game over time, for better game balance.


That I think would be a mistake as you would need to buy all now ships. While my collection is not as big as some I peronlay would not go out and buy it all over again. I would just keep buying the old ones.

I do wish they would come out and sell "Fix Packs". Packs of cards that have all the fixes so you do not have to buy new waves just to get the fixes. Something like a $1 or $2 pack that has all the title and exclusive cards for each ship.
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Bryan Becker
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I thought this kind of rant was saved for the FFG forums. These "And that's why no one plays this game anymore!" posts crack me up. Yeah, no new players in this game. But worlds sold out in seconds. No new casual players, except I have seen 4 brand new players come to the store I play at in the last 2 months or so.

FFG messed up the X-wing, no argument here. Power creep all but removed the namesake of the game. But that is the nature of this kind of thing. It was a new game and as it evolved, early ships got a little left behind. But now your complaint rant is that they are fixing it? lol Yeah, how dare FFG not have 5 years of expansions mapped out perfectly and play tested so that no ship would ever become 'underpowered' before they released anything!
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Ken
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Deathmvp wrote:
Nestyr wrote:
I’m hoping that, at some point, FFG release “X-Wing 2.0”, and revisits all the ships from all the waves, and updates them to reflect all the new rules and abilities that have been added to the game over time, for better game balance.


That I think would be a mistake as you would need to buy all now ships. While my collection is not as big as some I peronlay would not go out and buy it all over again. I would just keep buying the old ones.

I do wish they would come out and sell "Fix Packs". Packs of cards that have all the fixes so you do not have to buy new waves just to get the fixes. Something like a $1 or $2 pack that has all the title and exclusive cards for each ship.


+1 to Fix packs of cards. We won't need new ships. Whoo Hoo to X-Wing 2.0 upgrade and fix pack.

[Edit] I wonder if they would be willing to better theme some of the ships. Bomber that were actually more like bombers and list like fighters. Freighters that are more like freighters rather than the best attack/assault fighters. Oh well, this is best for another thread. Just my thing I guess.
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Charlie Theel
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A 2.0 series of card packs would be great. They could release a ship pack for each faction with all new cards, then separately packaged upgrades, maybe broken down by type?
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John Culp
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2.0 would be great. zero chance it happens before the movies/shows slow down.
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andy scott
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while we would love to have cheap access to all the fix cards via card packs, it will never happen. FFG has never done this for any of its games, as they can make more money selling the "fixes" in other packages. That has been their business model since the inception of x wing, Imperial assault, and basically all of their games. Do what I do, proxy the cards simply because I don't play competitively...
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Matthew Barille
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I do not understand why they have not put out an errata card set yet. Maybe because people will demand its free since they have already invested so much money into a game that was built to have such glaring imbalances that you need an errata so big its impossible for casual players to even attempt. Otherwise you have a huge base that will drop more than it costs to print cards. Only other scenario I can think of is they are waiting till the license runs out to get a final one shot errata update that costs way more than it should cause its a one and done.
 
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Ken
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Falccor77 wrote:
I do not understand why they have not put out an errata card set yet. Maybe because people will demand its free since they have already invested so much money into a game that was built to have such glaring imbalances that you need an errata so big its impossible for casual players to even attempt. Otherwise you have a huge base that will drop more than it costs to print cards. Only other scenario I can think of is they are waiting till the license runs out to get a final one shot errata update that costs way more than it should cause its a one and done.


Another thing to consider is that there are many of long term players that have stopped buying and it is getting ever more difficult to attract new players with so much over complication, nerfs, buggs, new mechanics, countless interactions and an FAQ as large as the rule set.

Oh well.
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Brad Gravett
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Some food for thought:

- FFG has rebooted their own games before. Namely, Game of Thrones and Netrunner. GoT was a TCG, then FFG took it over and published it as a compatible LCG, and continued to publish it for years. GoT 2.0 threw out a lot of their own work, and a lot of TCG rules and cards, too. Netrunner wasn't as drastic as that, but they did retire an "evergreen" product (to the community's delight, actually).

- X-Wing is a miniatures game, not a card game. FFG's first, too. Card games get rotations to keep the metagame interesting, miniatures games typically get new editions for that purpose. There's no precedent on how FFG has handled miniatures games before.

- Familiarity breeds contempt. Any game's biggest detractors and critics are the people who play it the most. To abuse metaphors, the sky may seem like it's falling because we're flying so close to it.
 
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John Culp
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Ken at Sunrise wrote:
Falccor77 wrote:
I do not understand why they have not put out an errata card set yet. Maybe because people will demand its free since they have already invested so much money into a game that was built to have such glaring imbalances that you need an errata so big its impossible for casual players to even attempt. Otherwise you have a huge base that will drop more than it costs to print cards. Only other scenario I can think of is they are waiting till the license runs out to get a final one shot errata update that costs way more than it should cause its a one and done.


Another thing to consider is that there are many of long term players that have stopped buying and it is getting ever more difficult to attract new players with so much over complication, nerfs, buggs, new mechanics, countless interactions and an FAQ as large as the rule set.

Oh well.


There are definitely some long term players that have gotten out. Some of the 'names' I remember from couple years ago have disappeared. but all the anecdotes point to greater growth than ever before in the game. Worlds selling out, largest tournament ever etc.
 
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Ken
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swankidelic wrote:
- Familiarity breeds contempt. Any game's biggest detractors and critics are the people who play it the most. To abuse metaphors, the sky may seem like it's falling because we're flying so close to it.


Perhaps for some, even many. But in our group we've moved on. For the ever changing complexity we've found many other things that are more fun. Clearly they are not Star Wars, but slapping on a brand doesn't make it as fun any more.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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scifiantihero wrote:
I mean...when was non biggs x-wing great? Wave 2?

More like Wave 8. I was seeing X-Wings used quite often in my local meta while I was still highly active (about 2 years ago now). Last tournament I went to it was won by a fellow running a Z Swarm + 1 X-Wing (can't remember which one, one of the newer pilots from the Epic ship pack). Seemed like back then many people assumed T-65s were garbage with little experience to back their assumptions up. In practice, they were still used in many squads.

Nice to see them get a boost though. Lots of interesting combinations will crop up.

-shnar
 
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Brad Gravett
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I don't think the T-65s were ever garbage, just overcosted. Especially after the TFA core set came out and the T-70s are better in almost every way, only Biggs was relevant because of his pilot ability.

The T-65 is getting a very similar rework as the StarViper got in Guns For Hire - 0-cost titles that alter the maneuver dial and allow additional titles. Both fall into the "cool ship but overcosted" category as well.
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Dave C
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You won't get a rant out of me. I buy some expansions just because of the artwork on the cards.
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Christian Ebeling
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Nestyr wrote:
I’m hoping that, at some point, FFG release “X-Wing 2.0”, and revisits all the ships from all the waves, and updates them to reflect all the new rules and abilities that have been added to the game over time, for better game balance.



I have thought for some time that "2.0" might be the real fix.

With all the fixes for the X-Wing: are TIE-Fighters still balanced? At the start of the game they were balanced against each other and the balance wasn't too far off or was it?

Actually wouldn't it be better...

(and I am just focusing on the game aspect here and not on FFG selling new ship packs and re-packs - and they have every right to sell the game they want the way they want; they are obviously not to on the wrong track from a buisness point of view as long as it is selling that good)

... to just errata point costs for ships and upgrades?

If the T-65 cannot compete with Blue Squadron B-Wings or Blue Squadron Novice T-70s, why not reduce its point costs from 21 to 18? Or 20 and increasing Points for T-70s and B-Wings (and those are just numbers for the sake of the argument and not something set in stone?

When they can errata something like "text on card xy should actually read xy" they can errata something like "Rookie X-Wings should actually cost 19 Points and have a barrel roll icon added to the action bar". "X-Wings loose the Torpedo Upgrade Slot, but reduce point costs for elite talents on X-Wings by 1 point".

I know that would't sell new ships.
But you can still introduce new upgrades like "You can now equip Torpedo upgrade cards, increase the point cost of equiped Elite Talent Upgrades by 1 Point (Card Point cost: 2 squad points).

But this gets complicated again fast.

So, why not just rebalance point costs across the board for "everything" in the game? And relrease new cards and ships for revenue, but with point costs that now fit in the overall point scheme.
 
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Kenny Felts
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lj1983 wrote:
2.0 would be great. zero chance it happens before the movies/shows slow down.


😃
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John Culp
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picklethehutt wrote:
lj1983 wrote:
2.0 would be great. zero chance it happens before the movies/shows slow down.


😃


surprise
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Randolph Bookman
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Looks like Hell froze over.devil
 
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Bill Cook
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Duh. How are they supposed to make any money if everybody is happy with the game as it is.
 
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Duncan Idaho
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lj1983 wrote:
picklethehutt wrote:
lj1983 wrote:
2.0 would be great. zero chance it happens before the movies/shows slow down.


😃


surprise


I'm happy with this here. Now that they've essentially fleshed out the scope of the ships they're covering, and the design space, it'll be a lot easier for them to balance each ship within that from the get-go. And they're selling card/board packs, so I can still use my old ships.
 
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