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The Gallerist» Forums » Rules

Subject: Contradiction between player aid and manual rss

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Dave C
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Just wanted to clarify, since we ran into this situation a couple of times.

The player aid has different orders of actions than the manual for certain locations (for example, discovering an artist and making an offer for a piece of art of international renown). Which of these is the officially correct version? The order can be quite consequential in situations where the bonus you receive can be used for the current action you're getting.
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A C
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It’s been a while since I last played or read the rules, but: those are two completely different locations, aren’t they?
Market left side of the board, Discovering an artist or buying a piece of art right hand side.

Could you be more clear about what exactly your question is and in which situation it occurred?
 
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Justin Y.
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This forum thread indicates that you should follow the player aid, and that a bonus from one step of an action can be used to pay for subsequent steps, but not for the current or previous steps.
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Dave C
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AernoutMJC wrote:
It’s been a while since I last played or read the rules, but: those are two completely different locations, aren’t they?
Market left side of the board, Discovering an artist or buying a piece of art right hand side.

Could you be more clear about what exactly your question is and in which situation it occurred?

Yes, they are completely different actions, but they both have the same issue: the player aid contradicts the manual. I'll be more explicit:

for discovering an artist, the player aid gives the following order of events:

1. Flip artist and mark initial fame
2. Gain benefit from artist bonus tile
3. Place signature token on the commission space.

However, the manual has the following order:

1. Choose an artist
2. Gain the bonus
3. (red artists only) move the collector to the plaza
4. Flip the artist tile
5. Place fame marker on the initial fame
6. Move the signature token

Notice how they reverse the order of when to flip and when to gain the bonus. This has consequences on what you can do; normally it wouldn't bother me too much if it was an extreme edge case, but it has happened a few times already. The same issue occurs with different explanations in the "make an offer for a renowned piece of art" action.

I was just curious if there was an official clarification for this conflict. I suppose I'll follow the player aid rather than the manual until I hear a definitive response.


actually, I had a second question come up if anybody would be able to answer: what constitutes the end of the turn? This is specifically for intermediate scoring. Would intermediate scoring happen at the end of the active player's turn, before anybody receives a kicked-out action? Or would the kicked-out action occur first? This is assuming one stack of tickets was depleted during the active player's turn?
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Vital Lacerda
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Oeiras
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2010 - Vinhos, 2012 - CO2, 2014 - kanban, 2015 - The Gallerist, 2016 - Vinhos Deluxe, 2017 - Lisboa, 2018 - Escape Plan, CO2 Second Chance and Dragon Keepers - Maybe: 2019 - ROTW Portugal and On Mars, 2020 - Kanban Deluxe Edition
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You should follow the player aid. In this case you can use the bonus tile to increase the fame of the just discovered artist.

Concerning the end of the turn: the active player turn only ends right after the next player in turn starts his turn. This means that the KO action is part of the active player’s turn.
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Dave C
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Thanks for the response; been really enjoying the game so far!
 
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Dave C
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I have one more question that's come up several times in our games. If I discover a red artist with the artist bonus tile that lets me put any visitor from the plaza into my gallery, can I put the white collector from the just-discovered red artist? The manual would seem to indicate no since it says to place the collector down after collecting the bonus, but there's no mention of the order of these actions on the player aid.
 
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Alan Castree
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If you’re going by the player aid (which you should) then yes you can, since the collector goes to the plaza when the artist tile is flipped over (before it’s flipped according to he rulebook). Bonus tile is resolved after that.

Edit: you just need to make sure you meet the requirements for moving a collector into your gallery (art sold + 1).
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James Geist
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Hmmm, I still feel some contradiction here.

Vital says follow the player aid, suggesting this:

Flip artist and mark fame (and place white worker for red if applicable)
Take bonus
Take commission token

Of course he then says "it's okay, you could use Fame you gained via the bonus tile to raise that fame further." Which honestly suggests that it's intended via the rulebook which is:

Choose artist
Take Bonus
Move White Worker
Flip Artist and Mark Fame
Take commission token

And then we have Alan's most recent post that again says to use the player aid. This matters greatly. If you took a bonus that allowed you to move a white Meeple first, obviously he's not there yet. If you take it after, he is.

Unless it's simply a list and we're just saying the bonus tile, white Meeple, artist flip and Fame occur in beneficial order to the current player.

I agree with OP that there is certainly conflict here between the player aid and rulebook, and in a game where is mentioned quite often that "order matters", this is sort of important.
 
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Alan Castree
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jwgeist00 wrote:
Of course he then says "it's okay, you could use Fame you gained via the bonus tile to raise that fame further." Which honestly suggests that it's intended via the rulebook which is:

Choose artist
Take Bonus
Move White Worker
Flip Artist and Mark Fame
Take commission token


I’m not sure what makes you think that. Vital said you can use the fame bonus on the just discovered artist which complies with the timing on the player aid (in which you resolve the bonus afterwards). You could also use the fame on a different artist if you wished. Would you prefer to not be able to use it on the artist just discovered?

jwgeist00 wrote:
And then we have Alan's most recent post that again says to use the player aid. This matters greatly. If you took a bonus that allowed you to move a white Meeple first, obviously he's not there yet. If you take it after, he is.


Yup, you move the white Meeple, flip flip the artist tile, mark fame, take your commission (edit: according to aid this does come afterwards but not a big deal), then if there was a three colored Meeple bonus tile on that artist you can use that to get the same white Meeple from the Plaza t nyour gallery (if you meet the sold art criteria of course).

Sorry, don’t have the player aid on me now, but the player aid timing is the correct timing, in which it allows you to use the bonus the way you want to use it. Not sure but hopefully they’ve updated the rulebook for the second printing.

 
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