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Napoléon 1806» Forums » General

Subject: Pinning units rss

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Thierry Aradan
France
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In our last game, as the clock was ticking and the French was under the pressure of time, the Prussian used a rather gamey tactics: he decided to sacrifice an already shattered corps to pin 3 stacked French corps.

I.e. a one strength point corps may attack multiple stacked corps with a "Moving Attack" and those corps, as defenders, will all be activated. Of course there is a cost to pay, but by losing one VP you could pin many strong corps.

With such odds, why is the defender required to commit all its corps to defend?
He could be free to send as many corps as he wishes, with a minimum of one corps per attacking corps...
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SAUVAGE Denis
France
SAINT ANDEOL DE BERG
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Good question and remark, it's a tricky strategy, but the rules allow this attack.
It could be a good idea to add this rule for 1807...I have to test it with Julien.
The problem is not to add too many rules in order to keep the goal of the game : simplicity.
I'll think about it.
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Piotr Pietia
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But is it possible to initiate an attack in move there is -1 card penalty. So 1 strenght corp would have 0? Is it possible to attack without base of 1 card?
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Thierry Aradan
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Merci Denis...
 
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Julien Busson
France
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I think Piotr got the solution : forbid attacks without at least 1 combat card. It’s logical and will avoid this kind of tricky tactic.
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Thierry Aradan
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judgeju wrote:
I think Piotr got the solution : forbid attacks without at least 1 combat card. It’s logical and will avoid this kind of tricky tactic.

That's another way to deal with the issue, but there are still a few situations where this might occur: with Kalckreuth or thanks to a couple of combat cards or, more unlikely, if the area was already contested by the corps.

Having to decide how many corps to commit to the defense, not knowing the exact strength of the attacker, just adds another challenge, but no extra rules nor complexity.

And I like the idea that 4000 men do not automatically disrupt 40000 men or more...

Just my two cents...

Thank you to both of you for this great game.
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Julien Busson
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Will discuss about this with Denis.

We could set a rule like : defender must commit to defense at least the same number of corps than the attacker has. BUT this can also create some gamey tactis like a Prussian player in Erfurt with 4 corps for exemple, and if the french attacks only with 3 corps, he will keep the city thanks to the lone corps not commited to defense...

So this is not so easy to handle.

I think forbiding to attack without at least 1 card is the best solution. Maybe adding that you don't take into account bonus from cards and commanders...

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Thierry Aradan
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Yes, I was aware of possible issues like the one you mentioned above.
All corps would have to retreat, but only the corps used to defend would be activated. The others would only take some fatigue due to the forced retreat.

Anyway, merci for your help.
 
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Piotr Pietia
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Maybe the solution is to flip only those corps which lost the battle?
Worse thing is that there can be a result of elimination of all fighting units due to fatigue or the winner only
 
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Thierry Aradan
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pietia2013 wrote:
Maybe the solution is to flip only those corps which lost the battle?

Yes, that seems to easily fix the "Erfurt" issue.

To sum it up:
When defending, and before forces are revealed, you must commit to the battle at least as many corps as the attacker. Non-committed corps are not revealed.
Only committed corps will take fatigue and losses.

A) If the attacker wins, all defending corps are activated (and revealed) and they ALL have to retreat. Cavalry pursuit will affect them all.

B) In case of a stalemate, or if the defender wins, only committed corps are activated. Those not committed are not revealed and may be activated later on.
 
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Wojtek Makarewicz
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I've just ordered the game and am a little worried to hear about the issue. Is it sth. really annoying or fun/game-breaking?
 
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Thierry Michel
France
Paris
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No big deal; it's a trick that can be avoided by the simple fix of not allowing 0-card attacks (I thought that was already in the rules, in fact).
 
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Charles Vasey
Scotland
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Cyberboarder wrote:
Good question and remark, it's a tricky strategy, but the rules allow this attack.
It could be a good idea to add this rule for 1807...I have to test it with Julien.
The problem is not to add too many rules in order to keep the goal of the game : simplicity.
I'll think about it.


I'd favour some choice by the defender as to who he commits, as suggested by the OP.
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