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Shards of Infinity» Forums » Variants

Subject: Best 3 player rules/variants rss

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Fred
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Hi everyone,

I was wondering what rules (if any) you were using when playing with 3. DO you just play FFA ? We tried one game like this and found it a bit lacking (an issue we have with a lot of 3-p games with a lot of interaction).

Wouldn't a prey-predator setup be better ?
Or something like : each player has 2 "stacks" of 25 HP, one for each opponent (I know this is a bit cumbersome, but different colored dices would do). When you hit a player you remove HP from 1 stack and you win if you are able to remove 1 stack from both player (and a player is eliminated only if both of his stacks are gone).

Also, we could add a rule such as for instance if you remove a player's last HP in a stack you cannot transfer the "overflow" of damage to the other player (e.g., player 1 has 10 HP left in the stacks associated with Player 2; Player 2 does 15 damage in a turn; if he chooses to "kill" player 1, 5 extra damage is lost)...or something along those lines.

thanks for any input
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Evan Champie
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Eureka
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I've read somewhere a neat thought for games like this.

You only win if the player on your right dies.

It gives everyone a clear target, wraps the game up faster, and if someone gets way ahead, the player on his left will start helping his victim to stabilize too.
 
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I have never lost at Ascension nor Shards of Infinity.
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Scuzball wrote:
I've read somewhere a neat thought for games like this.

You only win if the player on your right dies.

It gives everyone a clear target, wraps the game up faster, and if someone gets way ahead, the player on his left will start helping his victim to stabilize too.

I like this variant. Simple and effective.
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Fred
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Scuzball wrote:
I've read somewhere a neat thought for games like this.

You only win if the player on your right dies.

It gives everyone a clear target, wraps the game up faster, and if someone gets way ahead, the player on his left will start helping his victim to stabilize too.


yeah, that's a standard Prey-predator setup, such as in the old Jihad/Vampire CCG. That's what we do when we play Epic the card game but it does not always work really well and prevent kingmaking.
As there is less interaction in Shards, I guess it should be ok. But I expected something more...
 
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Justin Gary
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In the office we have been trying a 3 player variant where all player damage is done to both opponents. This has worked pretty well (although shields are more important than ever). I'd love to get other player's thoughts on it if you give it a try.

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Adam Rouse
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JustinGary wrote:
In the office we have been trying a 3 player variant where all player damage is done to both opponents. This has worked pretty well (although shields are more important than ever). I'd love to get other player's thoughts on it if you give it a try.


That's interesting. It seems like it would make the game end too fast since you'd be taking twice as much damage as usual, but I'll give it a try as soon as I can.
 
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Fred
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JustinGary wrote:
In the office we have been trying a 3 player variant where all player damage is done to both opponents. This has worked pretty well (although shields are more important than ever). I'd love to get other player's thoughts on it if you give it a try.



Ok I will have to try it, but I am not enamored by this variant.
Why would you prefer that to a Prey-Predator variant ?
 
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wolf ware
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When playing Hero realms we use rule if one player dies then game wins player with most HP... don't know if this can work here.
 
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Adam Rouse
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wolfinj wrote:
When playing Hero realms we use rule if one player dies then game wins player with most HP... don't know if this can work here.


I will have to try that next time I play Hero/Star Realms! I don't think it'd work for Shards though because of this scenario:

Player 1 is gaining tons of life.
Player 2 is gaining tons of mastery.
Player 3 is playing like a man and gaining tons of power.

If player 2 is at 30 mastery, player 3 needs to eliminate him or they'll lose to the infinite shard. But if he does so, player 1 wins because he's been gaining too much life, even though he may not actually be a threat to win currently.

But maybe that's just a situation you'll have to plan for and try not to let someone get too much lifegain.
 
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Jesse M
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adamxpaul wrote:
wolfinj wrote:
When playing Hero realms we use rule if one player dies then game wins player with most HP... don't know if this can work here.


I will have to try that next time I play Hero/Star Realms! I don't think it'd work for Shards though because of this scenario:

Player 1 is gaining tons of life.
Player 2 is gaining tons of mastery.
Player 3 is playing like a man and gaining tons of power.

If player 2 is at 30 mastery, player 3 needs to eliminate him or they'll lose to the infinite shard. But if he does so, player 1 wins because he's been gaining too much life, even though he may not actually be a threat to win currently.

But maybe that's just a situation you'll have to plan for and try not to let someone get too much lifegain.


the infinity shard does infinity damage to all players. so once a player plays the infinity shard at mastery 30 they win the game no matter how many players are playing. or at least that is my understanding and remember someone mentioning this in another post.
 
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Adam Rouse
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That is correct. I understand how it works. I think you misread something from my post.

Note: This is in response to the suggestion that the player with the most life win as soon as one player is eliminated.

The idea in my example is that Player 3 (the power guy) needs to eliminate Player 2 (the mastery guy) because he will win as soon as he plays his Infinity Shard. However, if Player 1 (the lifegain guy) is at a higher health total due to playing passively, he would then win the game.

So Player 3, despite normally having a really good shot at winning in the default, free-for-all rules, basically has to pick someone else to win at this point. If he eliminates Player 2, Player 1 wins. If he doesn't, Player 2 wins on his next turn.
 
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Jesse M
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adamxpaul wrote:
That is correct. I understand how it works. I think you misread something from my post.

Note: This is in response to the suggestion that the player with the most life win as soon as one player is eliminated.

The idea in my example is that Player 3 (the power guy) needs to eliminate Player 2 (the mastery guy) because he will win as soon as he plays his Infinity Shard. However, if Player 1 (the lifegain guy) is at a higher health total due to playing passively, he would then win the game.

So Player 3, despite normally having a really good shot at winning in the default, free-for-all rules, basically has to pick someone else to win at this point. If he eliminates Player 2, Player 1 wins. If he doesn't, Player 2 wins on his next turn.


ah okay thanks for the clarification. Def cannot read today, i misread and thought you meant player 2 (mastery guy) would eliminate player 3 with the infinity shard then player 1 would win due to the highest amount of hp.
carry on i am an idiot

that is def a situation that will happen with this variation. player 3 is in a lose lose situation. maybe each remaining players get one last turn after a player is eliminated? not that it can fully solve this problem if someone built crazy hp regen or has lots of damage but would mitigate this scenario a little bit. having the losing/dead player waiting for the opponents to have 1 last turn each isn't very long to wait so doesn't hamper much. what are other ways could your scenario could be mitigated?
 
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Adam Rouse
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No problem!

I think the solution is just not to use that variant, personally. It sounds like a good idea for other games, but I'm concerned it wouldn't work in Shards because of the alternate victory condition.

Free-for-all is fine for me. I have my doubts about the suggested variant from Stoneblade (where you deal your damage to both players), but I'm eager to try it next time I get the chance.
 
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Fred
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adamxpaul wrote:
No problem!

I think the solution is just not to use that variant, personally. It sounds like a good idea for other games, but I'm concerned it wouldn't work in Shards because of the alternate victory condition.

Free-for-all is fine for me. I have my doubts about the suggested variant from Stoneblade (where you deal your damage to both players), but I'm eager to try it next time I get the chance.


May I enquire why you would prefer FFA to a prey-predator setup ?
When we played FFA the game felt awfully long and in the end we eliminated the 3rd player with consecutive attacks before figthing one another for a few more turns.

At least, woth prey-predator there is no elimination and the games will probably be a bit shorter (which, for a game with such variance as this one, is a good thing : Id' rather play 3 30' games than 1 90')
 
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Adam Rouse
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Prey-Predator is everyone has a designated target to defeat, and the game ends when someone meets that goal?

What I don't like about that is, if the player to my left is my target but the player to my right is about to win, I'm in a lose-lose situation because I don't want to eliminate him and give the game to the third player, but I can't ignore him or he'll win.

I don't think FFA is ideal, but I just don't think any alternatives I've heard of are better, and I don't mind getting picked on. Usually in my games we tend to split our damage evenly most of the game, though it's a well established fact in our group that if you recruit the Grand Architect you're also buying a bull's eye -- it is not that hard to get 30M in FFA, so I will exclusively attack anyone who gets the Architect.
 
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Brendan McGovern
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Ok so we (3 player) played with a rule that damage had to alternate targets.

One card to one player/champion
Next card to other target (player/champion)

With 3 players it took about an hour. The game ended with a final round with players at 13, 6 & 10 health. The player with 10 was able to string together enough to knock out both the other 2.

Felt like a solid variant with tension throughout.
 
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