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B-17 Flying Fortress Leader» Forums » Rules

Subject: All Out rss

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Brian Sielski
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Where is the rule that indicates the maximum number of LW that can attack?

If there is an "All Out" there is no maximum per the counter. However, the map board shows enough spaces for only 6 LW counters.

So in reality, does "All Out" really mean Max = 6?

Thanks!

Doc
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Mike Adams
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I don’t remember there being a limit, the board would just become very crowded.
This is the penalty for reducing the # of Airfields and Aircraft Factories being attacked.
 
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Rich Paris
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I play real 'all out' and if its 8 or 10 that can attack, that's what's attacking. Can be very brutal on my BG, but that is how I interpret 'all out'. No maximum and hope your commanders have some tactics to use.

Over command channel, "WHERE ARE OUR ESCORT?!?!?"
 
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Chris Pearson
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As Others have said I don't think there is a limit. However only 2 Bandits can attack each bomber, unless the enemy commander has Group Attack as their tactics as this specifically says ignore the limit and all bandits not intercepted by fighters attack one bomber. But at most thats 13 Bandits (5 bombers and a sweeping escort), if there is that many luftwaffe on the board something has gone wrong.
 
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Brian Sielski
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I recall the two max per Bomber ... but I can't even find that in the rulebook right now ... lol.

However, if the board shows that limit of 2 per bomber, and the rules support the 2/per, I would think that the 6 max is also applicable.

It may be to difficult to coordinate 13 LW squadrons attacking at the same time ... hence the maximum of 6.

Maybe I'm just imagining that the rule existed?

Doc
 
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James Megee
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I did the highlights:

Have a look here page 30 in the PDF version of the rules:

Bandit Placement (Fighter Sweep)
If a Fighter Sweep is used, then take half of the
Bandit counters (round up) starting from the
right side of the Bandit Counter box for
interception by the Fighter Sweep (including No
Bandit and Flak Gun counters), up to the maximum
number allowed to intercept
(Losses of 5 or less
= 3 Bandit counters, Losses of 6+ = 2 Bandit
counters). The remaining Bandits attack the
Bomber Groups. Flak Guns always attack Bomber
Groups, but count as one of the Intercepted
counters.

Bandit Placement (Bombers)
For each Bandit not intercepted by a Fighter,
roll a die and place the Bandit counter under the
Bomber Group indicated in the box to the left of
the trailing Bomber. Only two Bandits can attack
any one Bomber Group (unless a German Tactic is
used). Re-roll if a 3rd Bandit is assigned to a
Bomber Group.
 
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Dean Brown
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All out means all out. I deal with the first 6 bandits, then draw additional bandits after their attacks are complete.
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James Megee
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GrumpyOldGamer wrote:
All out means all out. I deal with the first 6 bandits, then draw additional bandits after their attacks are complete.


I just highlighted the rulebook areas to show Doc that he wasn't imagining things!

Didn't I read somewhere else in the forums about having more bandits than "Bandit Squares"?
 
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Dean Brown
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I think it has come up before. It definitely hurts if you are drawing that many bandits.
 
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Brian Sielski
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GrumpyOldGamer wrote:
All out means all out. I deal with the first 6 bandits, then draw additional bandits after their attacks are complete.


So if there are 12 LW, then you are running two "interceptions?" It is possible then that after the first wave of 6 LW, the FGs can strike again, and conversely, or go home due to damage?

Anyway, is the interpretation of "waves" of 6 LW appropriate? And FGs (and BGs) stay around as long as possible, during each "wave" in the hex?

Thanks in advance!

Doc
 
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Dean Brown
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Good question. I wasn't very clear. The next wave of Bandits only attack BGs. So in this case, BGs can be attacked more than twice. There wouldn't be any group actions between waves. The next wave is purely to handle the extra bandits that don't fit on the current display. Six bandits fill the bandit track, which is why I usually draw that many.
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Brian Sielski
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Okay, got it.

Over two turns ... I rolled "11" 8 times ... so you can imagine what that hex looks like!

Doc
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vicente carlos insua arnay
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You are doing something wrong when you are swarmed like that by luftwaffe squadrons when the maximum range is one hex
 
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vicente carlos insua arnay
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did your BG survived the swarm?
 
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vicente carlos insua arnay
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I guess you are losing the war if you get swarmed like that :- \
 
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Brian Sielski
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I disagree that I am doing something wrong ... in fact, I am doing quite well.

Oh ... and all the BGs all survived ...

There is clearly different ways to play and succeed. And clearly, I use a different strategy that works well right now. In fact, I'm trying to make it harder by playing all the optional rules without the added SO. Still not enough damage to my BGs. So don't judge based on your experiences. :-/

Doc

 
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