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Star Wars: Rebellion – Rise of the Empire» Forums » General

Subject: Adding the expansion a bit at a time? rss

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Zen Shrugs
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Right, so, I found the expansion for a very reasonable price and snapped it up.

However... I've played eleven times with the base game and still consider myself a novice. My two regular opponents have only played half that many games each. We're still getting the hang of the base game and have no real desire to complicate things by adding in the expansion yet.

Basically, we're happy to keep the expansion stashed in the cupboard for now (which also gives me time to customise it ).

On the other hand, I wondered if it might be possible to add bits of the expansion into the game over time, rather than all in one hit. The idea is to add a little extra spice now and then, rather than a big change in the gameplay.

For instance:

-Start off by just adding the replacement SSD cards.

-A few plays later, add a couple of the new leaders in, along with their mission cards and action cards. These would probably need to be paired carefully (e.g. if Krennic is going in with 'Secure the Plans', then Jyn is needed for 'Heist').

-After a few more games, add some or all of the new units and any cards required for them (e.g. Interdictor projects). We probably wouldn't see the new units too often unless we run out of standard stuff to build, but they would be fun to have around. Hold back the Shield Bunkers (and new Sabotage card) for now, as they look like the units that would change things the most. Assume we're sticking with the base game's combat system for the moment, so leaving out some units won't stuff up the tactic card system.

-A bit later, add another couple of leaders.

-Later still, when both players know the Objective deck really well, add the new Objectives in to shake up that aspect of the game.

-At some point add the new 'Subversion' mission card into the base game mission deck.

And so on. Basically a gradual sprinkling of expansion content instead of all at once, so that interesting little things are constantly appearing without becoming too disruptive.

Would any of this seriously throw off the balance?

(Obviously we've have to check for any components that refer to other components, so you don't end up with an action card about shield bunkers when you haven't yet added the bunkers into the game, or whatever.)
 
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Maximilian Berbechelov
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The moment I got Rebellion I played only one game of the base game and then started playing with the expansion. Never looked back.

The new leaders don't make the game harder in any case. They just add variety. You are going to read the text on your card anyway so it's not mandatory for you to know the leaders and their action cards by heart. The green dice are very basic detail as well.

More leaders is just bigger choice of the little circles (skills) variety, nothing more.

When you add the new objectives you're supposed to pick some of them and build an objective deck. Which means if you've learned the objectives really good before hand you will just toss all that knowledge in the trash. Not sure why would anyone need to know the cards so good though.

Most of the details you've said are minor and you might have a ROTE game without Subversion even showing at all, for example.

With all that said the expansion doesn't add more (except for the units) per se, it improves stuff that's already there, so I see no reason for adding it piece by piece.

But if that keeps the heat for you - I don't think you'll throw balance that much.
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1603-1714
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OurBG wrote:
The moment I got Rebellion I played only one game of the base game and then started playing with the expansion. Never looked back.

The new leaders don't make the game harder in any case. They just add variety. You are going to read the text on your card anyway so it's not mandatory for you to know the leaders and their action cards by heart. The green dice are very basic detail as well.

More leaders is just bigger choice of the little circles (skills) variety, nothing more.

When you add the new objectives you're supposed to pick some of them and build an objective deck. Which means if you've learned the objectives really good before hand you will just toss all that knowledge in the trash. Not sure why would anyone need to know the cards so good though.

Most of the details you've said are minor and you might have a ROTE game without Subversion even showing at all, for example.

With all that said the expansion doesn't add more (except for the units) per se, it improves stuff that's already there, so I see no reason for adding it piece by piece.

But if that keeps the heat for you - I don't think you'll throw balance that much.

I've got to agree with this. I had only played the base game twice before adding the expansion and had no problems. It really improve combat and there isn't as much additional complexity as there first appears. I also found that the expansion pieces are really connected to each other, so I'm not sure adding one piece at a time would work effectively.
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Tom Cannon
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I bought the game and expansion a few weeks ago and have played about 4 games already using the expansion rules. I have never played the original mission set or combat system and don't see a need to as the Cinematic Combat rules are so much fun.

We may start having each player select which mission set to use per the expansion rules to increase some of the variation between games.

My suggestion is to just jump right into the whole set. It is only 4 pages of rules.
 
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Zen Shrugs
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Thanks for the input, everyone.

I'm not really asking whether I should add the expansion all at once, though. None of us here want to do that. We want to keep playing the base game for now and learn it inside out before adding the expansion.

What I do want to find out is whether adding bits of the expansion over a long period of time--to spice things up a little now and then, say by introducing Jabba the Hutt or Nebulon-B Frigates because they're cool--would cause any serious gameplay issues.

I note that the people who have replied so far all started playing with the expansion almost immediately. I'd also love to hear from people who played the base game to death before adding in the expansion.
 
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Maximilian Berbechelov
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I think it would cause issues - yes, but probably nobody has done that so you can report on how it goes. And also the stuff is interconnected in the expansion, but I it wont hurt to try and see how it goes.

Just keep in mind that knowing the game inside out is more of a bad thing when you're throwing in the expansion.

And I guess what people are trying to say is that unlike most expansions out there this one doesn't "expand", it mostly "improves".
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Joseph Prophet
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zenshrugs wrote:
Thanks for the input, everyone.

I'm not really asking whether I should add the expansion all at once, though. None of us here want to do that. We want to keep playing the base game for now and learn it inside out before adding the expansion.

What I do want to find out is whether adding bits of the expansion over a long period of time--to spice things up a little now and then, say by introducing Jabba the Hutt or Nebulon-B Frigates because they're cool--would cause any serious gameplay issues.

I note that the people who have replied so far all started playing with the expansion almost immediately. I'd also love to hear from people who played the base game to death before adding in the expansion.


Got the game quite early, and played it quite a bit (had most of the cards memorised before the expansion came out).

Got the expansion on release, and yes I would agree with the sentiment in this thread that I wouldn't play with, and am glad I didn't, only partial elements of the expansion.

The additions just work so well together that I wouldn't want to be playing with the not as good as it can be game.
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Jooice ZP
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JosephProphet wrote:


Got the game quite early, and played it quite a bit (had most of the cards memorised before the expansion came out).


This is true to me.

However I think the base game is clean and just about perfect.
I liked how only Obi Wan had 3 blue symbols on the Rebels (besides Jedi Luke) and he was yoyur only hope in running some missions. It really seemed like every leader had his place and time (except Janus - which is why I think you can replace him with Jabba) and that was really cool.

I found it really cool to explore the new cards in the expansion AFTER the old ones were OLD ONES. If you put them all together from the start, it dilutes the coolness in my opinion.

That being said, you can add subversion and replace the SSD cards right now. I feel like those were corrections for the base game. I would almost say you could also add the other projects but that does dilute those decks and you might not get to use cool ones like Oversee project as much (we don't need to bring that discussion her tho ).

Unlike the other commentators I think that adding stuff in steps has some added value, it keeps the new stuff fresh and gives you a nice cool experience with the old stuff.
I would add them like this:
Step 0: Jabba instead of Janus (just use the Janus cards to recruit Jabba), SSD cards and subversion.
Step 1: add shield bunkers
Step 2: add expansion units and combat system.
Step 3: add leader missions and new leaders
Step 4: add new objectives
Step 5: add new mission deck.

steps 3,4,5 can be interchanged or added at the same time.
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Zen Shrugs
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Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone. I've played a few more games (racked up twenty now!) but we still haven't added anything from the expansion in. I check in with my opponent after each game, and so far the verdict has been 'not yet'.

We tend to agree with jooice that we'd rather wait and add a fresh dose of 'new and cool' later on, when we've thoroughly explored the base game.

I was originally planning to add the new leaders/missions first, before the units, but on second thought the units are less complex, so are better off added first.

My opponent had a look at the RotE objectives and mission cards, and felt that they were a bit complicated in comparison to the ones in the base game (probably just because they involve unusual effects like the target markers). He's not ready to add those in yet--he wants to master the base game first.

On the other hand, he seems to like Janus and has recruited him a few times, so I wouldn't want to 'overwrite' ol' Eeyore with Jabba.


Adapting jooice's useful advice, I think I'll propose starting small with Step 1 by adding:

-Subversion (good call--I forgot there was a card for the old mission deck too)
-the replacement SSD cards
-the two starting action cards that don't feature leaders.

At the moment SSDs barely get to do anything in our games because they take so long to build. In fact we have a running joke that the SSD is the real turn marker; the game always ends on the turn after the first SSD is placed on the board.

The two starting action cards look straightforward, but with plenty of sneaky ploy potential.

And Subversion by itself will introduce a new wrinkle in strategy for both sides without shaking things up too much.


Step 2 will be the new units. All of 'em. The trouble with just putting shield bunkers in is that they're on the unit reference sheet with the other new stuff, so it's awkward to add them but nothing else. Of course the replacement Sabotage card will also be needed.

This will be a more drastic change, but to minimise the disruption to the game, we'll probably keep using the old combat system with the new units for now. They might not get built often, but should at least turn up when we run out of stuff in the supply, and will introduce some further strategic twists while (hopefully) keeping the core units the most commonly chosen ones.

The green dice and the Interdictor project cards will get added in at this stage too, of course.

If and when we decide to use the Cinematic Combat, we'll already be familiar with the new units by then, so the switch to the new system might well give them a fresh coat of excitement paint. And if it turns out we don't like CC, we can go back to the way it was before (without removing the units, because we're already used to them).


Step 3
will be to add the new leaders and their missions, plus action cards. This also adds a single target marker (the one for Krennic's mission) and the new rings.

May as well throw in the 'Single Reactor Ignition' project card too.

The leader cap will also come into effect at this stage.

By this point we still won't need to do any deckbuilding before the game since we're only using the base game's mission decks and objective decks, keeping things reasonably simple.


Step 4 will be the expanded objective deck (and its target markers). At this point deckbuilding during setup will become necessary.


Finally, Step 5 will be the new mission decks. More deckbuilding required. By now we'll have introduced pretty much everything.


As mentioned, Cinematic Combat can be introduced at any time after Step 2 (and taken out again if it turns out we dislike it).

I'm not sure when we'll add the new starting setup (if at all, since our customised expansion is no longer Rogue One themed). If we do, we'll probably houserule that Dagobah is off limits for the DSUC setup.


Are there any flaws in this grand scheme that I've missed? Mechanics that require other cards/units to function?
 
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Zen Shrugs
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A quick update: We've done Step 1 so far (adding Subversion, the SSD project replacements and one starting action card per side). It's worked well and Subversion has let us spring a couple of surprises.

Early days though. We're taking our first steps into a larger world.
 
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