Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
24 Posts

Hunt for the Ring» Forums » General

Subject: Who wrote this rulebook? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Luke Heineman
United States
LaCrosse
WI
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Over the last few months my group has struggled to get this game to the table for various reasons. Consequently I have read and re-read the rules each time we had planned on playing it, only to have a couple people unable to attend or whatever.

So I must have finished reading the rules for about the fourth time yesterday. Maybe fifth. I have the FAQ. I have the Player aid.

But let's be blunt here: this rulebook SUCKS. 36 pages? 36. PAGES.

Do we really need a paragraph that states: "There are several other important rules to note regarding Gandalf, explained in this and the next section" ?

Edit out all the extraneous sentences like the one above, along with the needless repetition (why is there a track tokens section following the nazgul movement section? You just explained how they're used), and I think we lose 3 pages off the top.

But honestly, this is terrible, wordy, and convoluted. This rulebook needs some serious editing, photos of actual game pieces when referenced, and a lot better organization. Has anyone tried flipping through and finding a specific rule? FUN.

36 pages. I went into last night's game DREADING what I thought was going to be horrifically boring and convoluted gameplay. But no. The game actually flows quite well . . . until you have an edge case rule question. The game turned out to be fun.

I was hoping the game would sell well enough for the publisher to release more of the ring's hidden movement to mordor (this was stated at some point but I'm too lazy to find it and link it here See below comment for the link. YES I know the game can be used to begin War of the Ring), but I sincerely hope if they do, they take a long, hard look at their rulebook and make some improvements should there be another installment. Learning this game doesn't have to be this painful.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Murr Rockstroh
United States
Fleming Island
Florida
flag msg tools
Pugs are like little people in fur coats.
badge
If it's not a Pug, it's just a dog.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lukeheineman99 wrote:
I was hoping the game would sell well enough for the publisher to release more of the ring's hidden movement to mordor (this was stated at some point but I'm too lazy to find it and link it here)..

War of the Ring (Second Edition)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Emperor Penguin
United States
Mercer
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Everyone seems to hate this rule book. But, while I agree it is unnecessarily long, it is actually quite good for me. I find it easy to find things when I need to look them up and the information is in the section I would expect to find it.
I actually suffer from a reading disability and really struggle with reading comprehension in particular. So I often struggle with rule books and wish everything was just a bullet-ed list.
I have only played part one of the game so far (about 4 times) but I had very few rules issues. When I re-reviewed the rules after the first game to see what I forgot (something I always do), I found very little I missed which is rare for me for a game of this scale. Perhaps the wordiness just forces me to slow down to consume it and that in turn make me internalize the rules better and know where to find them. So it may just be me, but for me, it was one of the better rules book I have read.
Comparing this to the other hidden movement title from Ares, Last Friday, Hunt for the Ring has a much better rule book for me. I needed to read the rules to Last Friday before every play and I think I have yet to get that one right. To that end I have very little interest in playing that one anymore.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke Heineman
United States
LaCrosse
WI
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Murr wrote:
lukeheineman99 wrote:
I was hoping the game would sell well enough for the publisher to release more of the ring's hidden movement to mordor (this was stated at some point but I'm too lazy to find it and link it here)..

War of the Ring (Second Edition)


Yes. Not to sound cheeky, but after reading the rulebook that many times, it'd be hard to miss the rules for continuing into War of the Ring 2nd edition at the back.



Fine, you made me look it up again.

Interview with Francesco. At about 7:25 in the video he talks about future chapters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-mIRTxhjqw&t=0s
3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
suPUR DUEper
United States
Villa Hills
Kentucky
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gotta disagree. Played my first game tonight and made it thru with a minimal number of lookups and no visits to BGG. I found everything quite clear and comprehensive.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Schmidt
Canada
Strasbourg
Saskatchewan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I had watched the Game Boy Geek video before reading the book. I read it once and then preceded to play through part 1 and 2 without issue that evening. Probably would have been a little more difficult without that video.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I love the rulebook, sure it could be shorter and maybe then more efficient at teaching, but it is a very good read and that, to me, helps a lot, as it keeps you reading.

So, why don't we have a down-vote button?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke Heineman
United States
LaCrosse
WI
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
borsook wrote:
could be shorter and maybe then more efficient at teaching


exactly. 36 pages. shake
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
lukeheineman99 wrote:
borsook wrote:
could be shorter and maybe then more efficient at teaching


exactly. 36 pages. shake

36 pages that read very well. I take that over 10 pages where I have to go back to each paragraph. I don't know, always thought that this is a series of games for people who read Tolkien's books a 100 times, so 36 pages are a pleasure. That might be it, it's not "just another game" to me.

Still, there so many worse rulebook, basically anything that Trzewiczek has written.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
suPUR DUEper
United States
Villa Hills
Kentucky
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lukeheineman99 wrote:
borsook wrote:
could be shorter and maybe then more efficient at teaching


exactly. 36 pages. shake


Actually it is 40.
2 pages for cover
2 pages glossary
2 pages integrating with War of the Ring
1 page index
5 pages of examples
4 pages showing pictures of the components.
8 pages for part II which you don't need to learn the first part of the game
~2 pages of illustrations


Which leaves you with 14 core pages of rules to get you started. Hardly an insurmountable climb.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke Heineman
United States
LaCrosse
WI
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TedW wrote:
lukeheineman99 wrote:
[q="borsook"]could be shorter and maybe then more efficient at teaching


1 page index
5 pages of examples
4 pages showing pictures of the components.
8 pages for part II which you don't need to learn the first part of the game
~2 pages of illustrations






Now that's some creative math. No, you can't dismiss these 18 pages and arrive at "it only takes 14 pages to learn the core game" as if the index, component pages, examples, and illustrations aren't necessary. Sorry. I'll spot you the 8 pages for part 2 and we'll call it 30 pages of rules.

In any event: feel free to disagree. The game could use a better rulebook. If this one works for you: great! I prefer to not have to read a LotR novella to play a hidden movement game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
lukeheineman99 wrote:
TedW wrote:
lukeheineman99 wrote:
[q="borsook"]could be shorter and maybe then more efficient at teaching


1 page index
5 pages of examples
4 pages showing pictures of the components.
8 pages for part II which you don't need to learn the first part of the game
~2 pages of illustrations






Now that's some creative math. No, you can't dismiss these 18 pages and arrive at "it only takes 14 pages to learn the core game" as if the index, component pages, examples, and illustrations aren't necessary. Sorry. I'll spot you the 8 pages for part 2 and we'll call it 30 pages of rules.

In any event: feel free to disagree. The game could use a better rulebook. If this one works for you: great! I prefer to not have to read a LotR novella to play a hidden movement game.

Fine play a different game or read the rules summary:
https://www.orderofgamers.com/games/hunt-for-the-ring/
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Chapman
United States
Powhatan
Virginia
flag msg tools
Axis & Allies Developer and Playtester; War of the Ring Editor and Playtester
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Some people prefer a narrative. Some people prefer bullet points. You can't please everyone without writing two rulebooks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Krieghund wrote:
Some people prefer a narrative. Some people prefer bullet points. You can't please everyone without writing two rulebooks.

Not to mention that reading is pleasant and not every game has to be aimed at people who just open the box and want to play... I remember the joy of going through Falling Sky rulebooks, main rules 32 pages and a playbook (examples and historical background) of 48 pages. Combining the joy of reading and boardgaming is great.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke Heineman
United States
LaCrosse
WI
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
borsook wrote:
not every game has to be aimed at people who just open the box and want to play


God forbid.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
lukeheineman99 wrote:
borsook wrote:
not every game has to be aimed at people who just open the box and want to play


God forbid.

I have nothing against such games. I play a lot of light games and love them. However there are also "event games" where you dedicate a whole day/weekend to a game, TI4, War of the Ring etc. I wouldn't want all the games to be like that nor would I want all the games to be casual just open and play. The only thing I am trying to say is that your issue with the rulebook may not be an objective problem but rather the matter of expectation and style. Same as some people seeing a book that is over a thousand pages long refuse to read it, other get excited. Something not being to your taste is not that thing's fault.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hey, I've created a video channel! Hover over my avatar to get more info! :) - Josh -
Canada
Cambridge
Ontario
flag msg tools
My video channel has a Facebook page - Find it by searching "Josh Yaks page" on Facebook
badge
Find my video channel on YouTube as "Josh Yaks"!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's really not a very good rule book (which by industry standards, makes it pretty average).

I created these files for myself and shared them on BGG with the hope that others would find them helpful, too:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/160129/hunt-ring-turn...

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/160130/hunt-ring-nazg...

They help to consolidate all the weird edge cases and rules exceptions into an easy flow.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
suPUR DUEper
United States
Villa Hills
Kentucky
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Moo Cow wrote:
I think I've been spoiled by Uwe Rosenberg game instructions.
.


Oh, you mean, like, Agricola? whistle
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Moo Cow wrote:
I'm going to agree and say it's one of the worst I've read, and I don't like to make such negative comments about things, because I'm sure they worked hard on it.

One of the issues I have with it, is that it doesn't cover a lot of "what if" scenarios. For instance - what happens if Gandalf has no tokens left to draw when he has to flee or go back into hiding? The whole "two free dots" thing after Frodo flees was really confusing. Etc, etc.

I think I've been spoiled by Uwe Rosenberg game instructions. I almost never have to look anything up and pretty much every "what if" scenario you can think of is included clearly.

I don't mind the layout or how long it is - it just feels like they left out a lot of information or didn't clarify things as well as they should have.

The only rulebook I can say I've read that was worse was the "Bottom of the 9th" rulebook. The original version basically assumed people knew baseball inside out and did a really bad job explaining things because of it.

That being said - I love the game and I'm willing to work through it. If I didn't love the game, though, I would probably get rid of the game because the manual wouldn't be worth the effort to figure out.

Lord of the Rings LCG rulebook? To stay within Tolkien. There are many worse rulebooks out there. When it comes to what ifs... It's been a while, but I don't think the situation you're describing is possible, you can't do it this many times.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Moo Cow wrote:
borsook wrote:
Moo Cow wrote:
I'm going to agree and say it's one of the worst I've read, and I don't like to make such negative comments about things, because I'm sure they worked hard on it.

One of the issues I have with it, is that it doesn't cover a lot of "what if" scenarios. For instance - what happens if Gandalf has no tokens left to draw when he has to flee or go back into hiding? The whole "two free dots" thing after Frodo flees was really confusing. Etc, etc.

I think I've been spoiled by Uwe Rosenberg game instructions. I almost never have to look anything up and pretty much every "what if" scenario you can think of is included clearly.

I don't mind the layout or how long it is - it just feels like they left out a lot of information or didn't clarify things as well as they should have.

The only rulebook I can say I've read that was worse was the "Bottom of the 9th" rulebook. The original version basically assumed people knew baseball inside out and did a really bad job explaining things because of it.

That being said - I love the game and I'm willing to work through it. If I didn't love the game, though, I would probably get rid of the game because the manual wouldn't be worth the effort to figure out.

Lord of the Rings LCG rulebook? To stay within Tolkien. There are many worse rulebooks out there. When it comes to what ifs... It's been a while, but I don't think the situation you're describing is possible, you can't do it this many times.


Card game rule book was fine for me - I didn't have many questions at all after reading it at all.

My game yesterday went to zero Gandalf tokens and we needed another sheet of paper to write his movement on. I'm sure it can happen. 10 tokens - 4 for setup = 6 left. 3 reveals = 3 tokens left. Found Gandalf 3 times during a Hunt = 0 tokens. So it was very possible that I found him again during a hunt, but I had really bad luck finding Frodo at all - so they got to the end without much trouble and the game ended.

Interesting I had no issues whatsoever with this rulebook however after reading the card game one all the time was running into cases where I didn't know what to do.

With the tokens - why not create a new pool then?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.