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Zombicide: Green Horde» Forums » General

Subject: Ballista overpowered by far rss

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Dave Marksman
Germany
Dortmund
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We just finished playing a quest using all wave 2 stuff. So, we included both dragons and both ballistae as well. Turns out the ballista has the irritating effect of making all other weapons merely useless. You can hit several zones using 3 dice and 4+, killing everything you aim for, if several survivors are using it. It was frustratingly easy and took the fun out of trying out everything that's new in wave 2.
From now on, we will establish the house rule to only target flying objects with the ballista. Anyone else had this problem? Or do you have other ideas for more logical house rules?
 
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Nick
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When it comes to Zombicide games, there is always 1 thing for sure that I keep in my mind : house rules.

Gets the frustration out of my gaming experience
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Pete Wyse
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Chippenham
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The simple house rule we've been using with siege engines is that they can only be used once per round. This makes sense to us, as loading and firing a siege engine isn't quick. Just because 4 people are standing next to a trebuchet, for example, doesn't mean you can fire it 4 times in what... a 10 second round?

That's how we play it, anyway
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Brendan Slade
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After just finishing a game I totally agree the Ballista is insanely overpowered! It is way more powerful than the trebuchet or pretty much any other weapon. It hits every zombie in a direct line on a 3+ with maximum damage.

Once you reach yellow each survivor can shoot it twice per turn and you will easily wipe out every zombie in line of sight. I would agree to house rule that it can only be fired at dragons.
 
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Jason Daniels
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Anytime you do something that you don't have to do, and it makes the game unfun...DON'T DO IT!
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Christopher Baughman

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The Boilerman wrote:
Anytime you do something that you don't have to do, and it makes the game unfun...DON'T DO IT!


It’s just a pity we need to balance their game for them.
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Brad Willo
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petewys3 wrote:
The simple house rule we've been using with siege engines is that they can only be used once per round. This makes sense to us, as loading and firing a siege engine isn't quick. Just because 4 people are standing next to a trebuchet, for example, doesn't mean you can fire it 4 times in what... a 10 second round?

That's how we play it, anyway



I think you could take that one step further and that you can fire it only once per round and you need the second round to reload.

Thus you can only fire it once every second round.

You could have a reload token next to the Balista and Trebuchet and you need a survivor in that zone to flip it from empty to reloaded at a cost.
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Steve Caville
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Vladvonbounce wrote:
After just finishing a game I totally agree the Ballista is insanely overpowered! It is way more powerful than the trebuchet or pretty much any other weapon. It hits every zombie in a direct line on a 3+ with maximum damage.

Once you reach yellow each survivor can shoot it twice per turn and you will easily wipe out every zombie in line of sight. I would agree to house rule that it can only be fired at dragons.



Devil’s Advocate time: the Ballista can only hit up to 3 zombies per zone & must follow Target Priority. No skills (currently) work with Siege Engines. Is it incredibly powerful? Definitely. I would consider putting a limitation similar to Searching: each Survivor may only use the Ballista once per Activation.
 
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Brendan Slade
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I hadn't realised it was 3 dice. I thought it was 1 dice per model for some reason. That makes it less overpowered against large groups than I thought. On the other hand against small groups of a dragon or abomination you have a very high rate of success.
 
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Dave Marksman
Germany
Dortmund
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skritter wrote:
petewys3 wrote:
The simple house rule we've been using with siege engines is that they can only be used once per round. This makes sense to us, as loading and firing a siege engine isn't quick. Just because 4 people are standing next to a trebuchet, for example, doesn't mean you can fire it 4 times in what... a 10 second round?

That's how we play it, anyway



I think you could take that one step further and that you can fire it only once per round and you need the second round to reload.

Thus you can only fire it once every second round.

You could have a reload token next to the Balista and Trebuchet and you need a survivor in that zone to flip it from empty to reloaded at a cost.


I think that's a good idea! We will try that. Maybe you could roll a die to determine if the reload succeeds (1 die, 4+). This way sometimes several survivors would have to spend 2 actions each to reload it and so the ballista would only be used when there is hardly another way to deal with the current zombie threat.

Adding up:

The ballista can only be used once per game round. It has to be reloaded, and cannot be reloaded in the same round it was fired. To reload it, a survivor has to spend 2 actions and roll a die. If the result is 4 or higher, the ballista is reloaded and can be used in the following game round. If the result is 3 or lower, the reload fails. Several survivors can try to reload the ballista in a game round.

 
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VonMeister
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Erroll wrote:
The Boilerman wrote:
Anytime you do something that you don't have to do, and it makes the game unfun...DON'T DO IT!


It’s just a pity we need to balance their game for them.

Just part of the price of admission with Zombicide. It’s been stated before - this game is a sandbox. When you add expansion and Kickstarter components, you change the “program.”
If the ballista makes it too easy, then add more aboms, wolves and crows for instance, or use fewer heroes.

It’s not difficult to adjust the game.
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Jason Daniels
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Erroll wrote:
The Boilerman wrote:
Anytime you do something that you don't have to do, and it makes the game unfun...DON'T DO IT!


It’s just a pity we need to balance their game for them.


I don't think it has anything to do with balance. They gave us a Ballista and said "Here, add this to your sandbox.". You used it in a way that you found unfun. You won't do that again.

If they said "once per round", or "once per game" or some such, someone would say "why, what's the reason?". No different.
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Brad Willo
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bgDaZoDo wrote:
skritter wrote:
petewys3 wrote:
The simple house rule we've been using with siege engines is that they can only be used once per round. This makes sense to us, as loading and firing a siege engine isn't quick. Just because 4 people are standing next to a trebuchet, for example, doesn't mean you can fire it 4 times in what... a 10 second round?

That's how we play it, anyway



I think you could take that one step further and that you can fire it only once per round and you need the second round to reload.

Thus you can only fire it once every second round.

You could have a reload token next to the Balista and Trebuchet and you need a survivor in that zone to flip it from empty to reloaded at a cost.


I think that's a good idea! We will try that. Maybe you could roll a die to determine if the reload succeeds (1 die, 4+). This way sometimes several survivors would have to spend 2 actions each to reload it and so the ballista would only be used when there is hardly another way to deal with the current zombie threat.

Adding up:

The ballista can only be used once per game round. It has to be reloaded, and cannot be reloaded in the same round it was fired. To reload it, a survivor has to spend 2 actions and roll a die. If the result is 4 or higher, the ballista is reloaded and can be used in the following game round. If the result is 3 or lower, the reload fails. Several survivors can try to reload the ballista in a game round.



I like the dice roll, but I think you could make it more thematic


SIEGE ACTIONS – TREBUCHET

Any survivor in the same zone as a siege engine may perform the following actions ONLY if that same action has not been performed by another survivor in the same turn. Loading and firing the same siege engine in the same turn is not permitted.


Moving a Trebuchet (limited to once per turn)
Action Cost: 3
The Survivor and the Trebuchet both move from a Zone to the next, etc, etc ...


Loading a Trebuchet (limited to once per turn) (Firing & Loading a Trebucet can not be done in the same turn)
Action Cost: 3
The Survivor loads the Trebuchet. Loading a Trebuchet does not produce Noise. Flip the empty/reload token to the RELOADED side to demonstrate the Trebuchet reloaded state.
Special: If the survivor attempting to reload the Trebuchet has LINE OF SIGHT to any zombies (panic sets in), they MUST roll a die result of 4+ to be successful.


Firing a Trebuchet (limited to once per turn) (Firing & Loading a Trebucet can not be done in the same turn)
Action Cost: 3
The Survivor fires the Trebuchet, etc etc ....


- - - - - - - - -


SIEGE ACTIONS – BALLISTA

Any survivor in the same zone as a siege engine may perform the following actions ONLY if that same action has not been performed by another survivor in the same turn. Loading and firing the same siege engine in the same turn is not permitted.


Moving a Ballista (limited to once per turn)
Action Cost: 2
The Survivor and the Ballista both move from a Zone to the next. etc, etc ....


Loading a Ballista (limited to once per turn) (Firing & Loading a Ballista can not be done in the same turn)
Action Cost: 2
The Survivor loads the Ballista. Loading a Ballista does not produce Noise. Flip the empty/reload token to the RELOADED side to demonstrate the Ballista reloaded state.
Special: If the survivor attempting to reload the Ballista has LINE OF SIGHT to any zombies (panic sets in), they MUST roll a die result of 4+ to be successful.


Firing a Ballista (limited to once per turn) (Firing & Loading a Ballista can not be done in the same turn)
Action Cost: 2
The Survivor fires the Ballista, etc etc ...


.
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Dave Marksman
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Dortmund
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That's nice. Next time we will include these rules and test them. Thanks for the input everyone!
 
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Jeff K
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I think the Ballista is probably pretty easy to nerf. Here are my ideas:

1.) Penetration

For each target zone that receives hits, raise the accuracy roll by 1. Thus, at most you could ever hit 3 spaces, with the last space only hitting on a 6. Target numbers can only be lowered for one of the spaces in a firing path to which you have a line of sight, with the first space staring at 4+ (You're only aiming at one thing, right?)

2.) Targeting

The Ballista can only hit one space before or after its primary target. It doesn't make sense that this bolt just travels on in a straight line forever without losing velocity. Once it hits things, it should lose steam.

Perhaps using a combo of the above 2, where you can only target one space and the other space gets a decreased accuracy/chance to hit. The overarching idea is that the thing can't turn into a "magic missile" or laser beam and hit everything along the way. You were aiming at one thing, more or less. The impacts along the way should affect its trajectory and inertia, an anyway, nothing in between and beyond is going to accommodate you by conveniently lining up to be hit!

Also: no matter what rules you add, include: Hitting a Dragon is equivalent to hitting a wall. No further spaces are affected. You stuck him. That's what you intended, and it restricts the weapon to its chief use.

I think some combo of the above should be fairly simple to implement and not get confusing during the game.
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Thilo M.
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petewys3 wrote:
The simple house rule we've been using with siege engines is that they can only be used once per round. This makes sense to us, as loading and firing a siege engine isn't quick. Just because 4 people are standing next to a trebuchet, for example, doesn't mean you can fire it 4 times in what... a 10 second round?

That's how we play it, anyway


We played mission 6 yesterday. After killing an early necro, we eliminated the north spawn point. The remaining spawns were east and west on a line with no obstacles, so two guys with the ballista in the middle took out all the zombies coming from spawn points. No hedges so we hit on a 3+. It got pretty boring fast, even the dragon was just cannon fodder, as well as a horde with 10 zombies.

We will definitely play that you can only use it once per round, thanks for the idea.

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Pete Wyse
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Hey everyone, just a heads up... they didn't say "siege engine" instead of "ballista" for a very good reason.

Played a game yesterday, using a Wulfsburg map, where we said Kill the dragon (so discard 5 vulnerability cards), trebuchet on the tower locked behind a blue door, blue objective mixed into 7 red objectives. No ballista! Trebuchet can hit the dragon.

Thought it would be a challenge y'know. HAH! Being able to hit the dragon wherever he spawns was a mistake. Essentially, it spawned and we rolled three dice at some point in the round. It died. Rinse and repeat.

Future games with the dragon will not include either siege engine I think (or at least, we will stick to the RAW with the trebuchet).
 
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Ares Kram
Brazil
New York
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Just Throwing some other ideas:

Firing the ballita: 2 actions, flip it's card to used.
Each hedge the shot goes through the attack gets -1 die.
Each zone away from range 1 the attack gets -1 die.
If the ballista attack would roll 0 die, it rolls 1 die with a fixed accuracy +5

Reloading the ballista: 2 actions, flip it's card to ready (free at the end of enemies phase)

Moving the ballista: 2 actions.

The ballista can only move and shoot forward (exception for dragon stomp, dragon attack or other effects that forceful move it) . The direction it's aiming matters.

Turning the ballista 90º: 1 action.
 
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Al Miller
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Erroll wrote:
The Boilerman wrote:
Anytime you do something that you don't have to do, and it makes the game unfun...DON'T DO IT!


It’s just a pity we need to balance their game for them.

If you just put in everything, you are there one who is unbalancing the game. You need to craft a good game in the setup.

If you expect them to make the game such that any combination of extras you throw together is going to be fun in every scenario, then "You are doing it wrong."
 
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Almeras Fella
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I thought about mixing it in the item deck as we did with pets.

Makes a nice theme of pulling off the dust cover to find a ballista. you then have to move it to where you need it.
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