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Subject: Gencon rss

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Rich Shipley
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EMBison wrote:
CrashCat wrote:
So, uh, how about that Gencon


I have no interest in Gencon's formula of having people pay for every little thing. Those with the most capital can do everything they want, while the proletariat must carefully ration what they can do.

I much prefer the PAXU model, where once you get past the daily fee, everybody is treated equally.


Everyone may have been treated equally at PAXU, but equally bad IMO. At least with a ticket system, I know I'll be able to do something. WBC has the model that works best for me - flat fee and if you show up when a game event starts, you get to play.
 
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The gencon part of the conversation is boring, and it's pretty crazy to me that Anita is rally that problematic for anyone. One doesn't have to like her message, but she has made plenty of good, demonstrable points about uneven sexualization and nerd entertainment. She has an agenda, but there's more than enough real analysis behind it that anyone can get value out of what she says.

As far as feminists being rude... yes, they are. But if rudeness was not OK, the right today would be 100% dead too. Certain level of incivility is normal when someone has something that wounds them. We also don't get to compare scars and see that only those in the worst possible situation get to complain: Dick measuring contests are not useful, whether they involve actual penises of metaphorical ones.

The ideas of the safe spaces and trigger warnings are not 100% black or white, but it seems OK to me to let those traumatized by something have the space to discuss their trauma unchallenged: that's the point of the safe space. The president holds some for some of his supporters, but calls them rallies. Immigrants get way worse things said about them in those situations than any white male nerd has ever gotten from Anita. We do not live in a country where one cannot say things that offend others: It's just that sometimes friends and employers will provide consequences, just ask Colin Kaepernick.

As far as this silly thing about spaces becoming liberal, I'd argue that RSP shows the opposite: Without moderation, this became a cesspool of insults, mostly coming from right wingers. If anything, it took some people getting kicked out, making the area more "exclusive", for liberal posters to carry more of the conversation. Ultimately, without rules, whoever has a higher tolerance for personal insults wins: Just like a boardgame meetup with a few obnoxious people gets more obnoxious over time.
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Ben Blackford
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Darilian wrote:
Maybe the organizers think that the 'anguish' will be worth the gain in hearing Ms. Sarkeesian speak. Maybe nerd culture needs a bit of 'anguish' and a wee bit of introspection in order to grow up a bit as a community, and be more open to others who also love the same stuff?

I don't see how this is a 'bad' thing in the slightest.

Darilian
If a flame war on the internet was the worst they potentially had to deal with, I'd agree with you. Her detractors tend to be known for taking it a bit further, though I sincerely hope they let this one go.
 
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William Boykin
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CrashCat wrote:
Darilian wrote:
Maybe the organizers think that the 'anguish' will be worth the gain in hearing Ms. Sarkeesian speak. Maybe nerd culture needs a bit of 'anguish' and a wee bit of introspection in order to grow up a bit as a community, and be more open to others who also love the same stuff?

I don't see how this is a 'bad' thing in the slightest.

Darilian
If a flame war on the internet was the worst they potentially had to deal with, I'd agree with you. Her detractors tend to be known for taking it a bit further, though I sincerely hope they let this one go.


By that logic, the Freedom Riders should never have gone to Birmingham; don't want to offend the locals after all.

If there are any issues or problems that arise from MRA asssholes being disruptive or violent, the onus is on THEM, not Ms. Sarkeesian, nor the organizers who invited her. Likewise, if, for some reason, some of Ms. Sarkeesian's supporters are violent or even just jerks, the blame lies with them unless, IF AND ONLY IF, she had deliberately incited them.

You can't blame the speaker for actions taken by those protesting.

Darilian
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Ben Blackford
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Darilian wrote:

By that logic, the Freedom Riders should never have gone to Birmingham; don't want to offend the locals after all.

If there are any issues or problems that arise from MRA asssholes being disruptive or violent, the onus is on THEM, not Ms. Sarkeesian, nor the organizers who invited her. Likewise, if, for some reason, some of Ms. Sarkeesian's supporters are violent or even just jerks, the blame lies with them unless, IF AND ONLY IF, she had deliberately incited them.

You can't blame the speaker for actions taken by those protesting.

Darilian
That's a staggering comparison to invoke for a speech at a tabletop gaming convention. And I'm not sure who you're arguing with about where the blame lies, I don't recall arguing for blaming Anita for bringing assholes of any stripe.

I get the feeling that the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages to you and that's why you write so passionately about it. I see it as a lot of stress on both the staff and the attendees for what I expect to be a fairly obvious critique on a hobby that's more open and welcoming than any other I've ever participated.

Ironically it will probably also mean that some of the marginalized people that Anita wants to help with her message end up having a more stressful time of it worrying what some jerk might do. Of course that's the event's responsibility to deal with and not theirs but humans aren't perfectly logical beings. Someone who's used to feeling unwelcome in a large portion of their life is really going to have a shit time if they're looking over their shoulder in the one hobby where they felt they could usually relax.

Is it really that shitty of me to consider this? Because right now I feel shitty about it and that doesn't make sense to me.
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CrashCat wrote:
Darilian wrote:

By that logic, the Freedom Riders should never have gone to Birmingham; don't want to offend the locals after all.

If there are any issues or problems that arise from MRA asssholes being disruptive or violent, the onus is on THEM, not Ms. Sarkeesian, nor the organizers who invited her. Likewise, if, for some reason, some of Ms. Sarkeesian's supporters are violent or even just jerks, the blame lies with them unless, IF AND ONLY IF, she had deliberately incited them.

You can't blame the speaker for actions taken by those protesting.

Darilian
That's a staggering comparison to invoke for a speech at a tabletop gaming convention. And I'm not sure who you're arguing with about where the blame lies, I don't recall arguing for blaming Anita for bringing assholes of any stripe.

I get the feeling that the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages to you and that's why you write so passionately about it. I see it as a lot of stress on both the staff and the attendees for what I expect to be a fairly obvious critique on a hobby that's more open and welcoming than any other I've ever participated.


"Pipe down ladies, it's welcoming enough."

Maybe you should consider attending her talks.

(To be fair, I'm not sure that's what you actually meant, but it certainly reads that way.)
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Ben Blackford
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Terwox wrote:

"Pipe down ladies, it's welcoming enough."

Maybe you should consider attending her talks.

(To be fair, I'm not sure that's what you actually meant, but it certainly reads that way.)
Not at all the intention. My apologies.
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William Boykin
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CrashCat wrote:
Darilian wrote:

By that logic, the Freedom Riders should never have gone to Birmingham; don't want to offend the locals after all.

If there are any issues or problems that arise from MRA asssholes being disruptive or violent, the onus is on THEM, not Ms. Sarkeesian, nor the organizers who invited her. Likewise, if, for some reason, some of Ms. Sarkeesian's supporters are violent or even just jerks, the blame lies with them unless, IF AND ONLY IF, she had deliberately incited them.

You can't blame the speaker for actions taken by those protesting.

Darilian
That's a staggering comparison to invoke for a speech at a tabletop gaming convention. And I'm not sure who you're arguing with about where the blame lies, I don't recall arguing for blaming Anita for bringing assholes of any stripe.

I get the feeling that the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages to you and that's why you write so passionately about it. I see it as a lot of stress on both the staff and the attendees for what I expect to be a fairly obvious critique on a hobby that's more open and welcoming than any other I've ever participated.

Ironically it will probably also mean that some of the marginalized people that Anita wants to help with her message end up having a more stressful time of it worrying what some jerk might do. Of course that's the event's responsibility to deal with and not theirs but humans aren't perfectly logical beings. Someone who's used to feeling unwelcome in a large portion of their life is really going to have a shit time if they're looking over their shoulder in the one hobby where they felt they could usually relax.

Is it really that shitty of me to consider this? Because right now I feel shitty about it and that doesn't make sense to me.


I dont think you should feel shitty, and Im sorry if I implied you should. But I do think that organizers shouldnt feel that they shouldnt invite a speaker just because some people might act like jerks. I think its fair to ask if, on balance, a speaker is a benefit to an event. But if you let the fear of protesters from scheduling important voices that might be controversial, you're letting the asswipes win.

Darilian
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Sarkeesian is a hypocrit and a liar. She is completely blind to any other opinions then her own, and everything aside from her own is wrong, racist, sexist etc.
As opposed to many of the people who has criticised her over the years, who have openly admitted to agreeing with her on occasion.

Whatever she is gonna puke out on GenCon I can only imagine but It will most likely alienate 90% of the community from the discussion, so the remaining 10% can come together and feel good about themselves.
 
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Soulless wrote:
Sarkeesian is a hypocrit and a liar. She is completely blind to any other opinions then her own, and everything aside from her own is wrong, racist, sexist etc.
As opposed to many of the people who has criticised her over the years, who have openly admitted to agreeing with her on occasion.

Whatever she is gonna puke out on GenCon I can only imagine but It will most likely alienate 90% of the community from the discussion, so the remaining 10% can come together and feel good about themselves.


Oh nice! Here on display is the false consensus effect.

Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect

In psychology, the false-consensus effect or false-consensus bias is an attributional type of cognitive bias whereby people tend to overestimate the extent to which their opinions, beliefs, preferences, values, and habits are normal and typical of those of others (i.e., that others also think the same way that they do).[1] This cognitive bias tends to lead to the perception of a consensus that does not exist, a "false consensus".


90% of the community isn't aligned with you.

And if you think it's about self-righteousness, you're not paying attention; but that was already pretty clear.
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Soulless wrote:
Sarkeesian is a hypocrit and a liar. She is completely blind to any other opinions then her own, and everything aside from her own is wrong, racist, sexist etc.
As opposed to many of the people who has criticised her over the years, who have openly admitted to agreeing with her on occasion.

Whatever she is gonna puke out on GenCon I can only imagine but It will most likely alienate 90% of the community from the discussion, so the remaining 10% can come together and feel good about themselves.
What if she "pukes" out something her critics "openly admitted to agreeing with her on"? Seems like you are automatically assuming she will be alienating people, which seems like unreasonable bias.
 
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Soulless wrote:
Sarkeesian is a hypocrit and a liar...
Whatever she is gonna puke out on GenCon I can only imagine but It will most likely alienate 90% of the community from the discussion, so the remaining 10% can come together and feel good about themselves.

Living up to your user name, clearly.
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Mac Mcleod
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mutton_chops wrote:
redwindmill wrote:
I guess what I was trying to point out was density of misandry used to point out misogyny .. but sure what ever you said


Merely insulting people is not necessarily "misandry". There needs to be a misandristic motive behind it.


Absolutely!


Yuh simpering git.
 
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Boombastix wrote:
EDIT: All round awesome person Sarkeesian is attending Genon.


Expect more of the same from her: https://youtu.be/H-40spFCqLs
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conzar wrote:
Boombastix wrote:
EDIT: All round awesome person Sarkeesian is attending Genon.


Expect more of the same from her: https://youtu.be/H-40spFCqLs


Reminder that this is the individual she called a shithead and garbage human:

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conzar wrote:
Boombastix wrote:
EDIT: All round awesome person Sarkeesian is attending Genon.


Expect more of the same from her: https://youtu.be/H-40spFCqLs


Must be tough being triggered so much, do you need a safe space?
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conzar wrote:
Boombastix wrote:
EDIT: All round awesome person Sarkeesian is attending Genon.


Expect more of the same from her: https://youtu.be/H-40spFCqLs


Do women standing up for themselves bother you?
Do you wish they would put up and shut up?
Do you feel it’s tough to be a red blooded male in the modern world?
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AndrewRogue wrote:
conzar wrote:
Boombastix wrote:
EDIT: All round awesome person Sarkeesian is attending Genon.


Expect more of the same from her: https://youtu.be/H-40spFCqLs


Reminder that this is the individual she called a shithead and garbage human:



So you would rape her? And in person harassment is OK as long as its someone who you have convicted of being a 'shithead' and 'garbage'?
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conzar wrote:
AndrewRogue wrote:
conzar wrote:
Boombastix wrote:
EDIT: All round awesome person Sarkeesian is attending Genon.


Expect more of the same from her: https://youtu.be/H-40spFCqLs


Reminder that this is the individual she called a shithead and garbage human:



So you would rape her?


Are you really that stupid?
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batman wrote:
conzar wrote:
AndrewRogue wrote:
conzar wrote:
Boombastix wrote:
EDIT: All round awesome person Sarkeesian is attending Genon.


Expect more of the same from her: https://youtu.be/H-40spFCqLs


Reminder that this is the individual she called a shithead and garbage human:



So you would rape her?


Are you really that stupid?


Yep I think he is ...
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Rich Shipley
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conzar wrote:
So you would rape her? And in person harassment is OK as long as its someone who you have convicted of being a 'shithead' and 'garbage'?


Fighting back against idiots is always OK. That clip was awesome!
 
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petegs wrote:
batman wrote:
conzar wrote:
AndrewRogue wrote:
conzar wrote:
Boombastix wrote:
EDIT: All round awesome person Sarkeesian is attending Genon.


Expect more of the same from her: https://youtu.be/H-40spFCqLs


Reminder that this is the individual she called a shithead and garbage human:



So you would rape her?


Are you really that stupid?


Yep I think he is ...


Someone should warn him he is heading to banable behavior
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Kumitedad wrote:
petegs wrote:
batman wrote:
conzar wrote:
AndrewRogue wrote:
conzar wrote:
Boombastix wrote:
EDIT: All round awesome person Sarkeesian is attending Genon.


Expect more of the same from her: https://youtu.be/H-40spFCqLs


Reminder that this is the individual she called a shithead and garbage human:



So you would rape her?


Are you really that stupid?


Yep I think he is ...


Someone should warn him he is heading to banable behavior


Showing a clip of the 'honoured guest' at Gen Con who displays toxic behaviour harassing an audience member at VidCon 2017 ... is bannable behavior?
 
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rshipley wrote:
conzar wrote:
So you would rape her? And in person harassment is OK as long as its someone who you have convicted of being a 'shithead' and 'garbage'?


Fighting back against idiots is always OK. That clip was awesome!


Its ok to harass and have toxic behaviour towards audience members who sit quietly and listen to you?

https://youtu.be/FJGZ2xoznQc?t=16m26s
 
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conzar wrote:
Showing a clip of the 'honoured guest' at Gen Con who displays toxic behaviour harassing an audience member at VidCon 2017 ... is bannable behavior?

Arguing that "I wouldn't even rape you" is a reasonable thing to say to another person might well be. Your position is inferred from the statement that believing this is an unreasonable thing to say is equivalent to being willing to say you would rape that person.

... or, as another poster succinctly put it. "Are you really that stupid?"
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