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Shadowrun: Crossfire» Forums » Rules

Subject: Obstacles, discards and turn order rss

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Mats Forsen
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So I am attempting the Crossfire mission and the following happened:

The previous scene just ended and all obstacles are drawn and assigned. One of the drawn obstacles was the Saeder-Krupp Observer which has the text "At the start of your turn, discard 1 card for each Red obstacle facing you. Any runner can discard a SKILL card to cancel this ability until the start of the next turn."

The runner who has that obstacle would be the first player to start their turn after the obstacles had been placed at the start of the scene.

My question is regarding timing, can any player discard a card thus nullifying the cards ability BEFORE the player starts their turn, or do they start their turn discarding cards as specified and THEN other players can discard a card to.. uh.. no effect, since it will trigger again on the next players turn?

Basically, when do "discard a card" effects happen, before a players turn starts or after? I would lean towards it being possible before the turn starts, as otherwise the discard would have almost no effect..
 
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Bob Bobson
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You can cancel before the discard. Basically anyone can spend a Skill card instead of the current player discarding any cards.
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Mats Forsen
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That is how I interpret it also.. but it still makes me confused the more I read it. Basically if I read it as two separate sentences as written it just doesn't make sense.

The first sentence says "At start of your turn do X.", the other says "Any runner can discard to cancel effect until the start of the next turn.".

If the discard happens before my turn starts, then it only cancels until the next turn starts.. which is my own turn right after. If the discard happens once my turn has started, then I have already done the card effect since that happens at the start of my turn.

I guess if I can read the "cancel" effect as a "start of turn" effect then I can choose the order myself thus choosing to cancel it before I trigger the effect, but that's not quite what the card says.
 
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Bob Bobson
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Unfortunately, the rules in this game are well designed but not well explained. When in doubt I just go with what makes the most sense.
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Vincent Vignola
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Another way to read it is: "At the start of your turn, do X. This effect can be cancel for this turn if any player do Y."

The "until the start of the next turn" just means that every player must do this at the start of their turn if there is red obstacle in front of them. Discarding one Skill card cancel this effect for the active player's turn only and not for the round.
 
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Joseph Maier
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I interpret it as "cancel the effect in progress." So you can do so on your own turn.
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Rob Davis
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Xanrag wrote:
If the discard happens before my turn starts, then it only cancels until the next turn starts.. which is my own turn right after. If the discard happens once my turn has started, then I have already done the card effect since that happens at the start of my turn.
Why would you think that the discard happens before your turn starts? It very clearly says "At the start of your turn".

This game has no "before your turn" window for effects. If you have multiple "at the start of your turn" effects, you choose what order to resolve them in. The exception being the moving of Obstacles facing staggered/critical runners during an abort. That specifically happens before any other "start of turn" action. (Pg 18)
 
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Mats Forsen
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It says start of my turn for the effect, but the second sentence that allows the effect to be canceled does not. If read sequentially there is no such connection between the statements. If it had said instead "start of turn: Do x, cancel until next turn by y" it would be clearer.
 
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B C Z
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Xanrag wrote:
It says start of my turn for the effect, but the second sentence that allows the effect to be canceled does not. If read sequentially there is no such connection between the statements. If it had said instead "start of turn: Do x, cancel until next turn by y" it would be clearer.
There is only one moment you can cancel an effect, and that's when it is about to occur.

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