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Trickerion: Legends of Illusion» Forums » General

Subject: Question About All Modules rss

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Jesse Black
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This game looks amazing! I'm backing at the highest level. Browsing through both kickstarters and YouTube, I tried finding a lengthy description of each module and some of the mechanics. However, I couldn't find much about that. It's definitely possible I overlooked some good materials out there.

Is there a review or video series somewhere that explains each existing module in a few paragraphs, the mechanics, and what each card type does? We're starting to unlock stretch goals related to the dark alley, and I'm not completely sure what these card types do. Thanks!
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Nick S
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Prophecies are part of the Dark Alley expansion. Basically there is one active prophecy per round, and the other spaces on the board for them are to let you see which prophecies are coming up. Additionally, one of the actions you can take in the dark alley allows you to rotate the upcoming prophecies to change the order they come out. For example, if the upcoming one changes all workers to a base of 1 action point, but you really don't want that happening next round, you can take an action to rotate the upcoming prophecies so that one would be 3 rounds out.

Special Assignments work just like assignment cards, except they are one-time use because they have special abilities on them. When you play with the dark alley expansion, you start with fewer assignment cards because you can take special assignment cards throughout the game. Special assignments in your hand are also worth points at the end of the game if you haven't used them.

Magician Powers are from the first KS or the Dahlgaard's Gifts expansion. At the beginning of the game, you are dealt 12 powers (4 from each "level") and have to choose 4 total to discard. As you progress through the game, you can gain Trickerion shards, and as you gain more trickerion shards, you unlock additional power slots. At the beginning of the assignment phase, you can place (or replace) one power. Some powers generate additional income or get you extra fame when a certain condition is met, some are points at the end of the game, etc.

The last thing would be the special abilities printed on the Magician cards, which are just abilities that make each magician a little different. They don't change gameplay aside from allowing each player to use their magician's ability.

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Zachary Homrighaus
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Xonim wrote:
Prophecies are part of the Dark Alley expansion. Basically there is one active prophecy per round, and the other spaces on the board for them are to let you see which prophecies are coming up. Additionally, one of the actions you can take in the dark alley allows you to rotate the upcoming prophecies to change the order they come out. For example, if the upcoming one changes all workers to a base of 1 action point, but you really don't want that happening next round, you can take an action to rotate the upcoming prophecies so that one would be 3 rounds out.


I have only played Dark Alley once and we elected to skip the Prophecies while I was explaining them. The examples we had out all seemed to make the game "worse" or weaken things. If you have mastered the game, maybe throwing some wrenches in might be fun, but anything that slowed down our progress toward our 3rd tier tricks seemed like it would suck.

Xonim wrote:

The last thing would be the special abilities printed on the Magician cards, which are just abilities that make each magician a little different. They don't change gameplay aside from allowing each player to use their magician's ability.


Again, only played with this expansion once, but I would argue that these abilities can make a big impact on the game even if they don't add a bunch of new rules / mechanics. One of my opponents had Yorba (I think) and the ability let him decide which performance a magician would perform so long as that magician had multiple legal choices (e.g. they had at least one trick installed on 2 or more performances). This cost Yorba a shard and could only be done once per round, but it made a massive difference in how tricks were prepared... we had to avoid spreading out and it meant we really didn't play nicely with others... we just ended up putting all our tricks together on a single performance so he couldn't mess with us. He only ended up using his power once on the final turn and it didn't make a huge difference in the points, but the mere threat of this power greatly changed how we approached the theater for the whole game.

When compared to my power which allowed me to get some extra VP when I used my Magician anywhere else by the Theater, it seemed like Yorba's was much more game changing in terms of how we played. Perhaps my power was better in terms of scoring the most points, but it affected the rest of the players and how we played literally not at all.
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Adrian Schmidt
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zjhomrighaus wrote:
I have only played Dark Alley once and we elected to skip the Prophecies while I was explaining them. The examples we had out all seemed to make the game "worse" or weaken things. If you have mastered the game, maybe throwing some wrenches in might be fun, but anything that slowed down our progress toward our 3rd tier tricks seemed like it would suck.


Not all are negative. I haven't actually counted, but my feeling is that the majority actually give bonuses. Some certainly give pretty substantial bonuses at times.

zjhomrighaus wrote:
Yorba (I think)


That would be Yoruba

And I think your analysis of how different the Magician Abilities are to play is spot on.
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Benjamin Tieman
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Ya, in my experience, prophecies are more beneficial than not. A good deal of my “holy cow that was an awesome move” have to do with taking advantage of prophecies.
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Jesse Black
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Xonim wrote:
Prophecies are part of the Dark Alley expansion. Basically there is one active prophecy per round, and the other spaces on the board for them are to let you see which prophecies are coming up. Additionally, one of the actions you can take in the dark alley allows you to rotate the upcoming prophecies to change the order they come out. For example, if the upcoming one changes all workers to a base of 1 action point, but you really don't want that happening next round, you can take an action to rotate the upcoming prophecies so that one would be 3 rounds out.

Special Assignments work just like assignment cards, except they are one-time use because they have special abilities on them. When you play with the dark alley expansion, you start with fewer assignment cards because you can take special assignment cards throughout the game. Special assignments in your hand are also worth points at the end of the game if you haven't used them.

Magician Powers are from the first KS or the Dahlgaard's Gifts expansion. At the beginning of the game, you are dealt 12 powers (4 from each "level") and have to choose 4 total to discard. As you progress through the game, you can gain Trickerion shards, and as you gain more trickerion shards, you unlock additional power slots. At the beginning of the assignment phase, you can place (or replace) one power. Some powers generate additional income or get you extra fame when a certain condition is met, some are points at the end of the game, etc.

The last thing would be the special abilities printed on the Magician cards, which are just abilities that make each magician a little different. They don't change gameplay aside from allowing each player to use their magician's ability.



I know you mention special assignment cards, but what are assignment cards in general? Also, thanks for the descriptions!
 
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jdbc59 wrote:
Xonim wrote:
Prophecies are part of the Dark Alley expansion. Basically there is one active prophecy per round, and the other spaces on the board for them are to let you see which prophecies are coming up. Additionally, one of the actions you can take in the dark alley allows you to rotate the upcoming prophecies to change the order they come out. For example, if the upcoming one changes all workers to a base of 1 action point, but you really don't want that happening next round, you can take an action to rotate the upcoming prophecies so that one would be 3 rounds out.

Special Assignments work just like assignment cards, except they are one-time use because they have special abilities on them. When you play with the dark alley expansion, you start with fewer assignment cards because you can take special assignment cards throughout the game. Special assignments in your hand are also worth points at the end of the game if you haven't used them.

Magician Powers are from the first KS or the Dahlgaard's Gifts expansion. At the beginning of the game, you are dealt 12 powers (4 from each "level") and have to choose 4 total to discard. As you progress through the game, you can gain Trickerion shards, and as you gain more trickerion shards, you unlock additional power slots. At the beginning of the assignment phase, you can place (or replace) one power. Some powers generate additional income or get you extra fame when a certain condition is met, some are points at the end of the game, etc.

The last thing would be the special abilities printed on the Magician cards, which are just abilities that make each magician a little different. They don't change gameplay aside from allowing each player to use their magician's ability.



I know you mention special assignment cards, but what are assignment cards in general? Also, thanks for the descriptions!


Assignment cards are the way each player chooses where each of their workers are being placed that round. Normally they are basically blank with just the location name on them, as opposed to the special assignment ones described.
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Adrian Schmidt
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benjamininja wrote:
jdbc59 wrote:
Xonim wrote:
Prophecies are part of the Dark Alley expansion. Basically there is one active prophecy per round, and the other spaces on the board for them are to let you see which prophecies are coming up. Additionally, one of the actions you can take in the dark alley allows you to rotate the upcoming prophecies to change the order they come out. For example, if the upcoming one changes all workers to a base of 1 action point, but you really don't want that happening next round, you can take an action to rotate the upcoming prophecies so that one would be 3 rounds out.

Special Assignments work just like assignment cards, except they are one-time use because they have special abilities on them. When you play with the dark alley expansion, you start with fewer assignment cards because you can take special assignment cards throughout the game. Special assignments in your hand are also worth points at the end of the game if you haven't used them.

Magician Powers are from the first KS or the Dahlgaard's Gifts expansion. At the beginning of the game, you are dealt 12 powers (4 from each "level") and have to choose 4 total to discard. As you progress through the game, you can gain Trickerion shards, and as you gain more trickerion shards, you unlock additional power slots. At the beginning of the assignment phase, you can place (or replace) one power. Some powers generate additional income or get you extra fame when a certain condition is met, some are points at the end of the game, etc.

The last thing would be the special abilities printed on the Magician cards, which are just abilities that make each magician a little different. They don't change gameplay aside from allowing each player to use their magician's ability.



I know you mention special assignment cards, but what are assignment cards in general? Also, thanks for the descriptions!


Assignment cards are the way each player chooses where each of their workers are being placed that round. Normally they are basically blank with just the location name on them, as opposed to the special assignment ones described.


If this still raises questions, the missing information might be that Trickerion uses simultaneous action selection. That is, instead of deciding where to place your worker one at a time, in turn order, just before placing it, all players decide where they want to go with all their workers, at the same time. This is called the Assignment Phase.

One Assignment Card is placed face down on each character, and only when all players are done, are the cards flipped face up. Then the Place Characters Phase begins, and players place one character at a time, in turn order. It's important to note here that, while you have already committed to where each character should go, you have not committed to the order in which you place your characters.

A very important part of the game is checking where other people are planning to go, and adjusting your plans accordingly. Perhaps you where planning to go Downtown first, to get money, and then go to Market Row to get resources. But loads of other players are going to Market Row, and you really need those bonus action points from placing early to have enough action points to get everything you need. And there's only one other player going Downtown. And you do actually have the money required to buy the stuff you need, but you'll be flat broke afterwards… and there's just one Money die up, and if you get second to Market row, you won't have enough action points to re-roll it, in case that other player is going there to take the money. They probably aren't, but can you afford to take that chance? Can you afford not to by all the resources you had planned to buy?

That my friend, is the game
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Jesse Black
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So, assignments determine where you can go each turn. Are they random how you get them or how do you go about getting them? Also, I'm not seeing any regular assignments for the academy module. There are only special assignments. Therefore, does that mean you have to use the special assignment variant to play the academy module?

Also, in terms of thematics, how do assignments make sense? I'm just curious to understand more. I do care about theme but am still comfortable if there are some disconnects.
 
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jdbc59 wrote:
So, assignments determine where you can go each turn. Are they random how you get them or how do you go about getting them? Also, I'm not seeing any regular assignments for the academy module. There are only special assignments. Therefore, does that mean you have to use the special assignment variant to play the academy module?

Also, in terms of thematics, how do assignments make sense? I'm just curious to understand more. I do care about theme but am still comfortable if there are some disconnects.

you have a hand of assignment cards. each turn you secretly place one next to each of your workers and that is the location they must go to. Afterward, you get the cards back to use next turn. special assignment cards are gathered in the Dark Alley. You add them to your hand of assignment cards. when you use a special assignment card, the worker goes to that location but also gets a bonus. the card is then discarded.
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jdbc59 wrote:
So, assignments determine where you can go each turn. Are they random how you get them or how do you go about getting them? Also, I'm not seeing any regular assignments for the academy module. There are only special assignments. Therefore, does that mean you have to use the special assignment variant to play the academy module?

Also, in terms of thematics, how do assignments make sense? I'm just curious to understand more. I do care about theme but am still comfortable if there are some disconnects.


In the variant without the Dark Alley (referred to as "the base game" in the rulebook, but widely viewed as only for beginners), you have two Permanent Assignment Cards for each location, except for the Theater, for which you have three cards. There are no Special Assignment Cards in this variant.

Playing with Dark Alley, you only have two Permanent Assignment Cards for the Theater, and one for each other location. If you go toor the Dark Alley, you can pick up Special Assignment Cards for the different locations (all except the Dark Alley itself). Taking these costs 1 action point for the first card taken, and 2 for each subsequent card taken using the same character. There is one deck for each location in the game, and you choose yourself which deck to pull a card from.

Thematically, I can't see any explanation for this system. But people here at BGG have been able to come up with great thematic explanations to seemingly impossible mechanisms before, so who knows?

EDIT: Forgot to explain about discarding, but Désirée ninja'd that part anyway! thumbsup
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Jesse Black
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Thanks for the response guys! It makes sense now. I’ll reach out to the kickstarter creators and ask thematically about it. I’ll post it here. Thanks again!
 
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Jesse Black
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Alright, I think I pieced it together in the brief minutes since my last post.

Your the head magician and all the people you're sending out are under your command. Therefore, you are orchestrating things and giving them tasks to do since they are essentially your minions or paid workers or whatever. Assignments represent the typical workflow that you'd find between a manager (you in the game) and his subordinates. Does that make sense? Do you agree?
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I would assume that thematically, the assignments are that each magician is gathering up their crew at the beginning of the day in their workshop and telling everyone what they are doing:
"Engineer Doug, I need you to hit the market for some glass and a dove if you can. It needs to be cheap. If you have a chance, can you order some rope too? I'm thinking of learning a new trick. Pretty Assistant Greta, we need some money from the bank. If the line's too long, see if you can hire a new apprentice to help out. You, new guy... what's your name? Günter? OK, you head to the theater and set up the Barrels trick. got it? I'm gonna see a guy about a thing (the less you know the better)"
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jdbc59 wrote:
Alright, I think I pieced it together in the brief minutes since my last post.

Your the head magician and all the people you're sending out are under your command. Therefore, you are orchestrating things and giving them tasks to do since they are essentially your minions or paid workers or whatever. Assignments represent the typical workflow that you'd find between a manager (you in the game) and his subordinates. Does that make sense? Do you agree?


Can I add the thematic flair that this is decided around the breakfast table, and that all the helpers, and the magician, are such perfectionists, that if their plans fall apart, they will not come up with something else to do, but rather just go home and be upset about it until the next day?
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SpecularRain wrote:
jdbc59 wrote:
Alright, I think I pieced it together in the brief minutes since my last post.

Your the head magician and all the people you're sending out are under your command. Therefore, you are orchestrating things and giving them tasks to do since they are essentially your minions or paid workers or whatever. Assignments represent the typical workflow that you'd find between a manager (you in the game) and his subordinates. Does that make sense? Do you agree?


Can I add the thematic flair that this is decided around the breakfast table, and that all the helpers, and the magician, are such perfectionists, that if their plans fall apart, they will not come up with something else to do, but rather just go home and be upset about it until the next day?

One wonders why, if you assigned downtown but the best spots are taken you don't just head to the market instead...

I'm going to head cannon that you spend your daily allowance of travel money on a stagecoach to the bank and by the time you are there and realize that the line is too long, you can't afford another coach and walking takes to long. Of course, I'll never play with programming again, so it doesn't really matter to me
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DragonsDream wrote:
SpecularRain wrote:
jdbc59 wrote:
Alright, I think I pieced it together in the brief minutes since my last post.

Your the head magician and all the people you're sending out are under your command. Therefore, you are orchestrating things and giving them tasks to do since they are essentially your minions or paid workers or whatever. Assignments represent the typical workflow that you'd find between a manager (you in the game) and his subordinates. Does that make sense? Do you agree?


Can I add the thematic flair that this is decided around the breakfast table, and that all the helpers, and the magician, are such perfectionists, that if their plans fall apart, they will not come up with something else to do, but rather just go home and be upset about it until the next day?

One wonders why, if you assigned downtown but the best spots are taken you don't just head to the market instead...

I'm going to head cannon that you spend your daily allowance of travel money on a stagecoach to the bank and by the time you are there and realize that the line is too long, you can't afford another coach and walking takes to long. Of course, I'll never play with programming again, so it doesn't really matter to me


Heretic!
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Jesse Black
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Haha Adrian and Desiree that's hilarious! The last few posts in this thread definitely gave me a good laugh. Thanks for all of your help!
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SpecularRain wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
SpecularRain wrote:
jdbc59 wrote:
Alright, I think I pieced it together in the brief minutes since my last post.

Your the head magician and all the people you're sending out are under your command. Therefore, you are orchestrating things and giving them tasks to do since they are essentially your minions or paid workers or whatever. Assignments represent the typical workflow that you'd find between a manager (you in the game) and his subordinates. Does that make sense? Do you agree?


Can I add the thematic flair that this is decided around the breakfast table, and that all the helpers, and the magician, are such perfectionists, that if their plans fall apart, they will not come up with something else to do, but rather just go home and be upset about it until the next day?

One wonders why, if you assigned downtown but the best spots are taken you don't just head to the market instead...

I'm going to head cannon that you spend your daily allowance of travel money on a stagecoach to the bank and by the time you are there and realize that the line is too long, you can't afford another coach and walking takes to long. Of course, I'll never play with programming again, so it doesn't really matter to me


Heretic!

I'm not a fan of unforgiving games. I like a brain burn, but I like fun more. Programming, especially in 2p can be rather unforgiving.

Plus, the no programming variant is just more fun. I love the hail mary of hitting the Dark Alley hoping to get a useful SA card for your guy going to the Market or Downtown.

I should also mention my wife and her little sister are highly AP prone. if I ever want this game played at all, I need a way to cut down the time it takes.
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Jesse Black
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Also, is there a variant when people don't use assignment cards? I.e. the programming?

I have another follow up question that's unrelated to all previous questions. About how many tricks does each magician end up with at the end of the game? Do you feel the 48 tricks in existence is sufficient or should there be more tricks?
 
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jdbc59 wrote:
I have another follow up question that's unrelated to all previous questions. About how many tricks does each magician end up with at the end of the game? Do you feel the 48 tricks in existence is sufficient or should there be more tricks?
I have as few as 3 and as many as 5 (it might have been 6, either way you need to discard since the limit at any one time is 4), so it's not a huge variance. Unfortunately, the "performing your tricks" part of the game is perhaps the least thematic. It's the most mechanical, compute-your-points part of the game, so I doubt more/different tricks would alter much. Sure they could be added, with different pay outs but I don't think anyone would point to the tricks as a limitation on (or benefit to) replayability
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jdbc59 wrote:
So, assignments determine where you can go each turn. Are they random how you get them or how do you go about getting them?


Each player is given a standard hand of assignment cards during player setup.

I think you might benefit from downloading and reading the rules as it will answer many of your questions. It would certainly help you determine whether this is a game you would like to own.

Quote:
Also, I'm not seeing any regular assignments for the academy module. There are only special assignments. Therefore, does that mean you have to use the special assignment variant to play the academy module?


It looks to me like there is one standard assignment card for each player to add to their hand in the Academy expansion, with a mid-blue face colour.

Quote:
Also, in terms of thematics, how do assignments make sense? I'm just curious to understand more. I do care about theme but am still comfortable if there are some disconnects.


Not everything can be thematic I guess you could say you're setting your staff their tasks for the week, without knowing what your rivals are up to, and sometimes they're going to have to jostle for priority with your rivals' people at the Market Row, Downtown or wherever.

EDIT: By the time it took me to type and edit that on my tiny phone screen, with work interruptions, I'd been well ninja'd.
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DragonsDream wrote:
SpecularRain wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
SpecularRain wrote:
jdbc59 wrote:
Alright, I think I pieced it together in the brief minutes since my last post.

Your the head magician and all the people you're sending out are under your command. Therefore, you are orchestrating things and giving them tasks to do since they are essentially your minions or paid workers or whatever. Assignments represent the typical workflow that you'd find between a manager (you in the game) and his subordinates. Does that make sense? Do you agree?


Can I add the thematic flair that this is decided around the breakfast table, and that all the helpers, and the magician, are such perfectionists, that if their plans fall apart, they will not come up with something else to do, but rather just go home and be upset about it until the next day?

One wonders why, if you assigned downtown but the best spots are taken you don't just head to the market instead...

I'm going to head cannon that you spend your daily allowance of travel money on a stagecoach to the bank and by the time you are there and realize that the line is too long, you can't afford another coach and walking takes to long. Of course, I'll never play with programming again, so it doesn't really matter to me


Heretic!

I'm not a fan of unforgiving games. I like a brain burn, but I like fun more. Programming, especially in 2p can be rather unforgiving.

Plus, the no programming variant is just more fun. I love the hail mary of hitting the Dark Alley hoping to get a useful SA card for your guy going to the Market or Downtown.

I should also mention my wife and her little sister are highly AP prone. if I ever want this game played at all, I need a way to cut down the time it takes.


Caveat - I happen to like programming games. I totally understand that these sorts of games can be frustrating and result in less than optimal turns (looking at you RoboRally), but wouldn't the no programming variant add to AP?

Clearly with no need to plan ahead, you cut out the time it takes to program your actions... but that time is spent simultaneously with all players doing the same thing. If the board is just wide open and you can go anywhere, with any of your workers, it seems like the decision space is quite large each and every turn... and worse, the boardstate will change before you take your turn, so can only plan ahead a little bit. Now instead of everyone trying to map out their turn at the same time, you have to wait for each player on each turn.

One other thing to consider is that playing with the Dark Alley expansion really cuts down on location constraints and wasted actions. Removing 1 of each location card means you just don't have 6 workers competing over 4 spots... in my game with Dark Alley, no one was ever frozen out of a spot in 7 rounds... sure, a few times a player was hoping to get the +2 spot and had to settle for a +1 or +0 spot, but that's the nature of a WP game and really a key part of the decision space this game creates.
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check the variants forum for the no-programming version of the game. you still use the assignment cards, you just don't plan them in secret first.
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zjhomrighaus wrote:
Caveat - I happen to like programming games. I totally understand that these sorts of games can be frustrating and result in less than optimal turns (looking at you RoboRally), but wouldn't the no programming variant add to AP?

Clearly with no need to plan ahead, you cut out the time it takes to program your actions... but that time is spent simultaneously with all players doing the same thing. If the board is just wide open and you can go anywhere, with any of your workers, it seems like the decision space is quite large each and every turn... and worse, the boardstate will change before you take your turn, so can only plan ahead a little bit. Now instead of everyone trying to map out their turn at the same time, you have to wait for each player on each turn.


That sounds convincing on paper, but with the way my wife and I are playing, cutting the programming would definitely speed up the game. Thinking through the possible combinations of "if I go there, and she goes there, then…" takes us a lot of time. But perhaps an even worse devourer of time is the re-planning required when your perfectly laid plans got messed up by the revelation of what the other players have planned to do.

But that's what makes this game fun to me. As I said above, to me, this is the game. The rest is just executing…

To each their own though, I have no problem with other people enjoying the game in other ways! I was just being a little cheeky to Désirée
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