GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
8,066 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
21 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
11 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Magic Realm» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Magic Realm Puzzle #2 - Black Knight and Company vs Eighteen Goblins rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
GodRob
United States
Gordonsville
Virginia
flag msg tools
While primarily used for killing vampires, a wooden stake to the heart is also highly effective against most other opponents.
badge
Can't we settle this over a pint?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Black Knight and his newly hired Company are hidden in a clearing with 18 Goblins! What do you do?

There really is no single correct answer for this, so the prize of 16 Gold (enough to hire the Company at price x1) will be given on Friday June 22nd to whoever gains the most Fame & Notoriety for the Black Knight.

No optional rules are in play. The Black Knight must survive the fight. He will suffer the normal Notoriety penalty for each Company member that is killed.

Luck: All goblins will flip to their more aggressive/dark side at the first opportunity and will remain there for the remainder of the combat.

C6 the Crossbowman will always cause at least Medium damage if he hits.

The actual directions of attack/maneuver and repositioning should not be necessary, just plan for the worst. For example, if you are attacking with a speed of 4 against a target with a maneuver speed of 4, you will never hit. If 6 goblins are attacking you with 3 in one box, 2 in another box and 1 in the third box, then the 3 will hit you. (If I'm mistaken about this, go ahead and play out the combat recording your die rolls as necessary.)

Please post your answers with spoiler tags.


Good Luck!

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel T.
msg tools
Re: Magic Realm Puzzle #2
Does/can the Black Knight start out hidden?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
GodRob
United States
Gordonsville
Virginia
flag msg tools
While primarily used for killing vampires, a wooden stake to the heart is also highly effective against most other opponents.
badge
Can't we settle this over a pint?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Magic Realm Puzzle #2
daniel_t wrote:
Does/can the Black Knight start out hidden?


Yes! The Black Knight and the entire Company are hidden to start.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
GodRob
United States
Gordonsville
Virginia
flag msg tools
While primarily used for killing vampires, a wooden stake to the heart is also highly effective against most other opponents.
badge
Can't we settle this over a pint?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Magic Realm Puzzle #2
I've edited the original post to clarify some of the random results. I've probably just made things worse. Just make sure you undercut with all of your attacks and you'll be fine.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Quantum Jack
United States
Kentucky
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Magic Realm Puzzle #2
Just the score:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
24 F&N



The full battle:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Turn 1

6 axe
6 spear
6 sword

Stay hidden. Alert mace. Target Sword Goblin 1. He flips to dark side and dies.

Turn 2

6 axe
6 spear
6 sword

CHQ lures axe goblin 1 M3 side up.
C1 lures axe goblin 2 L3 side up.
C2 lures sword goblin 2 M4 side up.
C3 lures sword goblin 3 M4 side up.
C4 lures sword goblin 4 M4 side up.
C5 lures sword goblin 5 T4 side up.
C6 lures Sword Goblin 6 H1 side up.

Black knight lures 4 axe goblins and 6 spear goblins.

Distributes goblins 4 spear in one box, 2 axe and 1 spear in each remaining box.

Targets spear goblin 1 in stack of 4.
Maneuvers in Dodge H4** covering with shield.
Attacks in Swing M5.

All company hits undercut before their targets.

Black knight gets hit by stack of 4 spear goblins. 4 simultaneous heavy hits to shield destroy shield causing 4 wounds.

Black knight kills 1 spear goblin.

Fatigue Move H5*
Wound Fight H6, Move H6, Move M5, Fight M4*.

Turn 3

4 axe
5 spear

CHQ lures axe goblin 3 M3 side up.
C1 lure axe goblin 4 L3 side up.
C2 lures spear goblin 2 M4 side up.
C3 lures spear goblin 3 M4 side up.
C4 lures spear goblin 4 M4 side up.
C5 lures spear goblin 5 T4 side up.
C6 lures spear goblin 6 H1 side up.

Black Knight lures axe goblins 5 and 6.

Alert mace with Fight M3**.
Targets axe goblin 5.
Refuses to place a maneuver.
Attack in smash with Fight M5.

All Company hits undercut.

Black knight kills axe goblin 5. Axe goblin 6 sounds black knight.

Fatigue fight M4*
Wound Move M4*

Turn 4

1 axe

C6 lures axe goblin 6 H6 side up.

Black knight alerts mace with fight M5.

Targets Axe goblin 6

Refuse to maneuver.
Attack in smash with Fight H5*

Hits, kills.

Score:
1 x 1 = 1 (sword goblin turn 1)
1 x 2 = 2 (spear goblin turn 2)
1 x 3 = 3 (axe goblin turn 3)
1 x 4 = 4 (axe goblin turn 4)
14 for all company kills

24 total


I know this is not precisely optimum. The Black knight has 5 more Chita to wound. So that's easily a couple of more kills and therefore multipliers. But my brain is cooking right now. Places a nice baseline for someone else to compare from.


Commentary on puzzle:
Spoiler (click to reveal)

18 goblins are intimidating. While the dark side is more damage, always being on that side means many things are more predictable. Luring with hirelings against consistent opponents is key here.

In real MR I would never try it. The flipping around makes those goblins dangerous. C6 is NEVER that useful in real life.
5 
 Thumb up
16.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
GodRob
United States
Gordonsville
Virginia
flag msg tools
While primarily used for killing vampires, a wooden stake to the heart is also highly effective against most other opponents.
badge
Can't we settle this over a pint?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Magic Realm Puzzle #2
Very nice!

Spoiler (click to reveal)
24 is a great score but leaves the window open for someone to beat you.
Still, Armor intact and no casualties, that's an awesome plan of attack!


About the commentary:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Black Knight with the Company match up very well with all 18 goblins, even if you don't know whether the goblin will flip or not. I stated so in this puzzle to eliminate confusion but in a real game it probably wouldn't matter much.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
neko flying
Germany
Berlin
Berlin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Magic Realm Puzzle #2
A trick to improve on Quantum Jack's solution might be

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Axe Goblins cannot hurt C5, who is heavy and armoured. So C5 can lure an Axe Goblin, so that he automatically misses, by the puzzle's "bad luck hypothesis". This way one Axe Goblin can be kept alive indefinitely until BK is ready to dispose of it. One extra kill for free.

I don't know if this counts as going against the spirit of the puzzle, though.
3 
 Thumb up
2.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
GodRob
United States
Gordonsville
Virginia
flag msg tools
While primarily used for killing vampires, a wooden stake to the heart is also highly effective against most other opponents.
badge
Can't we settle this over a pint?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Magic Realm Puzzle #2
flying_neko wrote:
A trick to improve on Quantum Jack's solution might be

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Axe Goblins cannot hurt C5, who is heavy and armoured. So C5 can lure an Axe Goblin, so that he automatically misses, by the puzzle's "bad luck hypothesis". This way one Axe Goblin can be kept alive indefinitely until BK is ready to dispose of it. One extra kill for free.

I don't know if this counts as going against the spirit of the puzzle, though.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Most definitely in the spirit of the puzzle!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
neko flying
Germany
Berlin
Berlin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Magic Realm Puzzle #2
Then

Spoiler (click to reveal)
A few more kills can be accumulated by sacrificing more Company members using the same strategy. All that you need for a Company member to be able to be killed is not to have initiative, that is, slower attack time (and weapon speed in case of a tie).

HQ and C1 cannot miss because of their speed and weapon length.
C2, C3, C4, C6 have slow enough attacks (time 6) that they can be killed by any of the Goblins.

C5 can hold off an Axe Goblin indefinitely.

Then it is a matter of fine tuning QJ's solution so that by the end of the combat:
- HQ and C1 are alive, with kills.
- C5 is alive, no kills.
- C2, C3, C4 and C6 are dead, but still probably with at least one kill each.
- The Shield is broken.
- The Armour is broken.
- As many chits are fatigued / wounded as possible.


I don't know if I will have the time these days, but maybe someone feels like carrying out the nitty gritty details of the exercise.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
GodRob
United States
Gordonsville
Virginia
flag msg tools
While primarily used for killing vampires, a wooden stake to the heart is also highly effective against most other opponents.
badge
Can't we settle this over a pint?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Magic Realm Puzzle #2
Sometime tomorrow evening I'll be awarding the prize so get those entries in!

My best score is
Spoiler (click to reveal)
33 Fame and Notoriety but I didn't think to sacrifice any of the Company to increase my score. I did lose both my Shield and my Armor and I'm not happy about that.
I really hope someone comes up with a better solution than mine.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
GodRob
United States
Gordonsville
Virginia
flag msg tools
While primarily used for killing vampires, a wooden stake to the heart is also highly effective against most other opponents.
badge
Can't we settle this over a pint?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Magic Realm Puzzle #2
Quantum_Jack wins again with a score of 24!

Flying_nyko suggested the strategy of C5 luring an axe goblin that he would never kill. That would have boosted the score little (to 28 I believe).

SOLUTION

My strategy involved the Black Knight killing an axe goblin on round 1 and luring Spear and Sword goblins, all with a move of 5, on round 2. This would allow him to play his Fight M4* to alert his mace while maneuvering with his Move H5*. He could then target one of the pikeman's goblins with his speed 3 attack, racking up one additional kill for the Black Knight.

You could also lure axe goblins with CHQ and C1 dark side up on round 2. This would allow them to "dance" with their goblins just like C5 without worry of being killed because of their longer weapon length. The Black Knight could then kill the goblin off at his discretion. For round 3 you could only try this with one of the swordsmen to prevent the Black Knight from being killed.

In the end, my Black Knight had no armor, no shield, 6 wounds, 2 fatigue, and a score of 33 Fame and 33 Notoriety with no losses to the Company. The loss of the Armor to gain an extra 9 F&N is probably not worth it.

Round Goblins Killed
1 . . . 1 (axe goblin)
2 . . . 4 (2 axe, 2 sword, CHQ, C1 and C5 lure axe goblins but do not kill them, Black Knight takes 4 wounds and loses shield)
3 . . . 5 (1 axe, 4 sword, C1 and C5 lure axe goblins but do not kill them, Black Knight takes 2 wounds and loses armor)
4 . . . 6 (6 spear goblins, C1 and C5 lure axe goblins but do not kill them)
5 . . . 1 (1 axe goblin lured by C5 but not killed)
6 . . . 1 (1 axe)

As mentioned before, this fight would go a little different with random flipping and placement but not too much. The spear goblins being passive is a huge boon for the Black Knight and it's likely that he can lure all of them every round and not get too messed up. The Black Knight can probably handle all of the spear and sword goblins on the second round and have a reasonable chance of not taking any damage at all or 6 wounds while losing his shield at worst. The company can take care of the axe goblins on round 2 then the sword goblins on round 3.

Finally, C6 the Crossbowman. I keep thinking he has a sharpness star but he doesn't! I don't know how many years I played that wrong, but I keep forgetting. If he rolls a 5 or 6 he won't kill the goblin he's assigned, so you're right in saying that he just will not be as effective as I stated.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.