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BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » PBEM » Werewolf

Subject: No Strings Attached rss

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Alicia
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Welcome to my mansion. It is a lovely place isn’t it?
I bet you have many, many questions. They will be answered in due time.

For now, you should take the time to meet your new friends.
You will be with them for a good while as you try to find your way out of here.
That’s right. You’re trapped. I hope you remember the way in!


No Strings Attached
A flavourful no-reveal 13er. What will you do to survive?

Team Good

Stalker - Each night may target a player to see who they visit.

Torturer - Each night may target a player to kidnap them, preventing them from using any abilities but also protecting them from kills. Once per game, the torturer may choose to execute their target, killing them.

Doppelganger - Picks a player n0. If that player dies, the Doppelganger will learn that player's role and become a copy of it. If the target is a wolf or the Puppet Master, the Doppelganger will only gain their passive modifier (Tough or White Hat Brutal).

Parity Hunter - If they are the only remaining good player against one wolf, they will defy parity and win the game.

5 Villagers - Villagers do not have special powers. However, three villagers will have the following hidden modifiers:
--> Tough: Immune to one kill (not lynch).
--> White Hat: Reveals as full role upon death.
--> Twisted Child: Each night visits the player that was killed. Does not visit on no kill nights.

Team Evil

Dreamwolf - Starts the game in a deep slumber, waking when a wolf is killed. Only then do they join the wolf chat and count for parity. Tough to one kill (not lynch).

Werewolf - Basic wolf with no special abilities. Shares a chat with their fellow wolf.

White Hat Brutal Werewolf - Reveals as full role upon death. Shares a chat with their fellow wolf. Has a mandatory brutal kill upon death.

The Puppet Master

Puppet Master - Tough to one kill (not lynch). Each night, including n0, may select a player to enchant. Enchanting a player strips them of any tough modifier and if the enchanted player dies that night or is lynched the next day, they are revived as a lifeless puppet. Puppets lose all abilities and their vote, but are still allowed to post in the thread. For each puppet created the Puppet Master’s vote strength will increase by one. Wins if their vote strength equals or exceeds the number of remaining non-puppet players.

Mechanical Clarifications

--> The last wolf to submit an order will be the one who makes the kill. This kill can be blocked if the Torturer kidnaps this wolf.

--> Actions will resolve as follows: Torturer, Puppet Master, All Non-Kill Actions, Nightkill.

--> This is a no reveal game.

--> White Hat will still reveal as White Hat even if the Doppelganger acquires their role.
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Alicia
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Quixima’s Standard Ruleset

Be respectful and polite. Werewolf is a fun game and everyone should be able to enjoy playing it.

Do not quote, screenshot, or post anything from Cassandra chats. Paraphrasing is acceptable.

Do not discuss this game outside of this thread or Cassandra chats until it has finished.

Unless otherwise stated, do not post after death until the game has ended.

Play to the win condition of your role and your faction.

Do not bring external factors into the game, such as compensations, bets, or red text of truth.

Follow all site-wide and community rules.

Feedback on the set-up or balance is encouraged, but should be given in modchat or post-game.
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Player List According to Cassandra:
Amekins
BerenCamlost
Fordzebra
Irina_Phoenix
Javal
SarahBoBara
silverbonds
The_Rorab

8 players are signed up.

To sign up for this game go to
http://cassandrawerewolf.com/game/2011611
 
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Alicia
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I'm considering using this as my mod colour for this game. If this is hard to read or would cause problems for anyone, please let me know!
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Tokah
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Is the tough WW also tough to the Torturer's execution? "Night kill" can either mean specifically the wolves night kill or things that kill at night, and it isn't clear in this instance.

Same question on Puppet Master/night-Tough villy, are they tough to the Torturer's kill?

If the Doppel picks the White Hat Villy, will the original reveal when they die?
 
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Quixima wrote:
I'm considering using this as my mod colour for this game. If this is hard to read or would cause problems for anyone, please let me know!


Way better than red and green. =)
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TFang wrote:
Is the tough WW also tough to the Torturer's execution? "Night kill" can either mean specifically the wolves night kill or things that kill at night, and it isn't clear in this instance.

Same question on Puppet Master/night-Tough villy, are they tough to the Torturer's kill?

If the Doppel picks the White Hat Villy, will the original reveal when they die?
Yes. The Torturer kill counts as a night-kill. I'll edit the wording.

The original White Hat will still reveal if the Doppelganger takes their role.
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LJ
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Does the Dreamwolf know that they're a wolf or have any info about who the wolves are until they wake up?

Doppelganger is always good or could they convert? Could they gain KP that was already used (Brutal, Torturer kill)?

Are there 13 or 14 roles in the game? The OP says 13, but then there are 14 different ones listed.

In general, this feels evil sided to me without reveals or any kind of priest roles, but I'll think a bit more about it.
 
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Also, is the Puppet Master win-stealing?
 
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ljtrigirl wrote:
Does the Dreamwolf know that they're a wolf or have any info about who the wolves are until they wake up?

Doppelganger is always good or could they convert? Could they gain KP that was already used (Brutal, Torturer kill)?

Are there 13 or 14 roles in the game? The OP says 13, but then there are 14 different ones listed.

In general, this feels evil sided to me without reveals or any kind of priest roles, but I'll think a bit more about it.
Dreamwolf knows they are a wolf but are essentially an uninformed aux until they promote into wolf chat.

Doppelganger is always good and they can gain passive that have already been used.

There are 13 roles in the game. I accidentally miscounted the number of villagers. Whoops. Fixed it.

I'm testing balance just by running the game as a simulation a bunch and the two sets I'm trying are this one and one where the White Hat wolf doesn't have a brutal. I'll pick whichever seems more balanced but would also appreciate input.
 
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TFang wrote:
Also, is the Puppet Master win-stealing?
Absolutely! Nobody will leave the mansion alive!
 
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ljtrigirl wrote:
Does the Dreamwolf know that they're a wolf or have any info about who the wolves are until they wake up?

Doppelganger is always good or could they convert? Could they gain KP that was already used (Brutal, Torturer kill)?

Are there 13 or 14 roles in the game? The OP says 13, but then there are 14 different ones listed.

In general, this feels evil sided to me without reveals or any kind of priest roles, but I'll think a bit more about it.


Really?
Because team good looks incredibly stacked.
Comparing this to the no reveal 15er, where good historically does fine, here there are much better GSes including helpful villagers (although I have no idea what twisted child does), no N0 deaths, a slightly worse evil team since a brutal and night toughs are IMO not worth the ability to kill twice plus the immediate coordination plus the lack of evil white hat, and a neutral, which isn't even necessarily anti-good.
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Vanderscamp wrote:
ljtrigirl wrote:
Does the Dreamwolf know that they're a wolf or have any info about who the wolves are until they wake up?

Doppelganger is always good or could they convert? Could they gain KP that was already used (Brutal, Torturer kill)?

Are there 13 or 14 roles in the game? The OP says 13, but then there are 14 different ones listed.

In general, this feels evil sided to me without reveals or any kind of priest roles, but I'll think a bit more about it.


Really?
Because team good looks incredibly stacked.
Comparing this to the no reveal 15er, where good historically does fine, here there are much better GSes including helpful villagers (although I have no idea what twisted child does), no N0 deaths, a slightly worse evil team since a brutal and night toughs are IMO not worth the ability to kill twice plus the immediate coordination plus the lack of evil white hat, and a neutral, which isn't even necessarily anti-good.
I think the twisted child is supposed to be the equivalent of a tinker, gives a false hit if viewed by the stalker?
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Twisted Child is a tinker, essentially, Van, gives Stalker hits.
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I feel like anything I crosspost with Madeline on must be right. whistle
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Looks great! I am in.
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Tempted into joining.
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Update: Final role list locked in. Only change is that I removed the tough from the Tough Werewolf, making it a normal Werewolf instead. The Tough was leftover from an earlier draft of the set-up and no longer makes sense.
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Quixima wrote:
Update: Final role list locked in. Only change is that I removed the tough from the Tough Werewolf, making it a normal Werewolf instead. The Tough was leftover from an earlier draft of the set-up and no longer makes sense.


Evil was already in a bad position IMO, I think good needs to be nerfed
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Vanderscamp wrote:
Quixima wrote:
Update: Final role list locked in. Only change is that I removed the tough from the Tough Werewolf, making it a normal Werewolf instead. The Tough was leftover from an earlier draft of the set-up and no longer makes sense.


Evil was already in a bad position IMO, I think good needs to be nerfed
In isolation, I think you are right. However, I don't think you are considering the Puppet Master in your analysis which does play an important role in this game. Inherently, win-stealing neutrals hurt good's win ratios more than evil's win ratios because it is harder for the uninformed group to adapt to another opponent. In this case, the Puppet Master's ability is also hurts good slightly more than evil.

As such, I think the extra strength good has here is only what is necessary to balance this as a three-way game instead of a 2-way game.

That said, I'm not the best math/analysis type. I'm pretty happy with where I think the balance is, but I'm best at seeing how it plays with real people in it and using what happens to help make sure each of my games is more enjoyable than the last!
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I think trying it is the best answer!
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Vanderscamp wrote:
Quixima wrote:
Update: Final role list locked in. Only change is that I removed the tough from the Tough Werewolf, making it a normal Werewolf instead. The Tough was leftover from an earlier draft of the set-up and no longer makes sense.


Evil was already in a bad position IMO, I think good needs to be nerfed


Removing tough wolf also means that if you get a no kill at Lynch, the player is 100% villager. Which is a big deal.

I like some of your ideas here Quix. But I agree with Vanders. This is a set that I wouldn't want to be evil in ever.
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RoyalApe wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
Quixima wrote:
Update: Final role list locked in. Only change is that I removed the tough from the Tough Werewolf, making it a normal Werewolf instead. The Tough was leftover from an earlier draft of the set-up and no longer makes sense.


Evil was already in a bad position IMO, I think good needs to be nerfed


Removing tough wolf also means that if you get a no kill at Lynch, the player is 100% villager. Which is a big deal.

I like some of your ideas here Quix. But I agree with Vanders. This is a set that I wouldn't want to be evil in ever.
No role is tough to lynches in this game. Even the tough wolf before removal was not tough to lynches.
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Alright, let's workshop this set-up. I'm not certain on the whole balance thing here, but some of the roles could certainly be more fun to play I think. I'm going to pitch a few ideas and anyone who is up for giving feedback is very welcome!

The big one I've been thinking of is changing the Dreamwolf to something more interactive. This is my current idea:

Impersonator - Aux Evil
Every night including n0, the Impersonator may target another player to copy any active night ability have. The Impersonator will gain one charge of this ability that must be used the next night. This will be used in place of the Impersonator's copy ability, but the Impersonator will still copy any ability from the target if they have one.

Notes:
They can copy the wolf nightkill and will gain parity should they do so.
They can copy the Doppelganger's n0 action.
They will copy the Torturer's execute if the Torturer still has it available.

I think this would definitely be fun, but have no idea how it would swing the balance.

The other idea I have is to axe the tough villager and replace the hunter with a villager with an unknown extra parity modifier. This would remove the free claim built into that role which really isn't interactive or fun for others.

Thoughts?
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I just signed up on Cassandra.
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