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A Thief's Fortune» Forums » Crowdfunding

Subject: Campaign Cancelled- Dissapointed in Creators rss

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John Aronis
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So despite funding 83% in 4 days, the campaign has been cancelled because it didn’t blow up its funding goal in the first bit before launch.

This reminds me of the original Heroes of Land Air and Sea. Just because you didn’t blow KS away, you decide to cancel it. The funding goal is never the actual funding goal but an artificially low goal so they can stamp it 300% Dundee in 1 hour or some other BS.

I am disappointed that the creators don’t set a realistic funding goal or have “stretch goals” and bonuses which wer never intended to be separate from ththe base game. It looks like there was never any desire to publish this with 100% funding. Makes me very reluctant to back it in the future, especially with so many other good KS.

And before people complain companies like CMoN do this, CMoN have put out KS that only just met funding or only a bit over (such as Dogs of War) and didn’t go for relaunching the campaign. Because they were funded.

Anyway that is my rant over
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C Bazler
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I will say my husband was super excited to back this (which he did), and the moment they cancelled, he was done. He has no desire to commit again, and he no longer cares about the fate of the game or how fun it might have been.

Artipia may think it understands Kickstarter, but in reality things have changed dramatically since a few years ago. If they want to compete, they'd better stop pissing off potential customers with petty reasons like "we should have raised more money."
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Bartosz Popow
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cbazler wrote:
I will say my husband was super excited to back this (which he did), and the moment they cancelled, he was done.

Which nicely portrays how shallow his interest and excitement actually were. Bee wants this flower! A second later bee wants that flower!
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John Silveira
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So what are you actually ranting about? Usually when a Campaign is cancelled and relaunched the new campaign/end product is 10X better than it would have been. I applaud Artopia, because hey choose to give up certain money for taking the time to make sure this campaign can be as successful as possible. If this gets you upset, than I’d suggest you seriously think about Kickstarter being the right place for you.
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Ryan Valdez
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^ ditto with John. I would rather a campaign cancel and come back new and improved with a better product and better transparency than just trying to push through. Especially when they take feedback. Based on the last update, they listened to and/or observed some of the things that hindered the campaign and cancelled in order to address those obstacles. Doesn't seem like a bad thing to me, imo.
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C Bazler
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BartP wrote:
cbazler wrote:
I will say my husband was super excited to back this (which he did), and the moment they cancelled, he was done.

Which nicely portrays how shallow his interest and excitement actually were. Bee wants this flower! A second later bee wants that flower!


Let me put this another way: since I made my post last night, twelve more tabletop projects have launched on Kickstarter. Seven of those twelve have already made their funding goals.

The market is glutted such that we as customers can be as fickle a bee as we'd like. If we don't back this game, we can back another tomorrow. These days, a company had better pitch their game confidently and competently to get me to hand them my money. By canceling when they were already very close to attaining funding, and still with three weeks left in the campaign, Artipia just looks flaky and unsure at best, greedy at worst. They *will* lose backers for this. They already have.
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Ryan Valdez
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Mmm, I could see it going both ways. I understand where you're coming from, and I think it's a valid reason for those that had seen the campaign on the first go. At the same time, the first time I came across A Thief's Fortune, it seemed really unclear as what the game was really about, and it looked quite incomplete. And for people that are coming in new and fresh, browsing and stumbling upon it for the first time, having a good-looking and fleshed-out campaign is equally important.

I'm not saying they won't lose backers from a cancellation. I think the flaky/greed argument is one that can be evidenced in other games and companies. But I also do think that improving the overall Kickstarter campaign quality has the potential to bring in more backers (particularly new ones) to overcome the shortcomings of the first campaign. More funds does not always translate to more greed. More funds can also translate to a better game with more content or upgraded components. That's one of the big reasons stretch goals exist. The more games they can manufacture in one go, the cheaper the cost-per-game is, and that money saved can be put into game upgrades. If anything, they're losing money, time and/or effort by having to go back to the drawing board with a cancellation.
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Konstantinos Kokkinis
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Cancelling the campaign wasn't an easy decision for us. After all its our 20th crowdfunding campaign, not our first.

We eventually decided to cancel for 2 main reasons.

1) The campaign had reached a halt. We are perfectly fine with a campaign having a lower pace and we've never before considered cancelling a campaign because of a lower pace. However in this case the campaign was going through a 48 hour period of of almost no new pledges. What was more alarming was that even though there were some new pledges, there was an equal amount of pledge cancellations (around 40 in the last 48 hours) which was what made us decide to cancel. You see, even if the campaign did get funded after a day or two, there was always the chance the campaign would then start moving backwards. Its not just the creators hoping for a big pledged amount in the end. The backers want that to (since it means more stretch rewards) and if they feel this is not happening, they often leave.

2) The number of backers in the first few days was significantly lower than what we are used to see in our previous campaigns. That automatically meant that something wasn't what it should be. It was very hard for us to pinpoint the problem as all the comments on the campaign and social media were positive comments of people saying they liked everything they saw about the game. When we do something wrong, customer always tell us about it. We didn't have any feedback this time to explain this. Aside perhaps from timing, we tried to narrow down the potential issues and we intend to address them within the next few weeks and relaunch the project within summer as we want the game to be released at Essen 2018.

It was very unfortunate for us to have to cancel but those who already supported the KS will have the chance to do so again soon and as mentioned above, everyone will be getting an even better product.
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Konstantinos Kokkinis
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On this separate post I would like to thank all those who supported the campaign. We will surely find a way to show you our appreciation.
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Mikey Moo
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Well, I just hope you find a way to get the shipping costs down. Would have considered backing but just way too high shipping costs to Canada for me to even bother looking over the campaign very closely.
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v b
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Please find a way to lower the cost in the relaunch and I'm in. $50(with shipping) just seemed too high given the competition. These KS are asking for backers to have faith in the product but there is no guarantee the product will work as expected. Hence, a lower initial cost should be expected.
 
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Jason Brown
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I just watched Rahdo's rundown, went to the page, and was disappointed to see it cancelled. I'll be checking back for the re-launch, but the reasons I didn't back it this time were:

1. The price - I don't like paying full MSRP for a Kickstarter. KS eliminates the 60% of the price normally lost through the retail distribution chain. Charging backers the same price as we'd pay in a local game store is disparaging when non-backers will get it for 20% less online.

2. The presentation conveyed "just another card game" and I went to the next project after about a minute on the page. It wasn't until I watched Rahdo's video today that I saw the unique twist on drafting and went back. The setting is nice but generic, I recommend highlighting the game play more.

I recognize my viewpoint is that of a veteran gamer and superbacker and DEFINITELY doesn't represent the majority, so please take this feedback from that perspective. Good luck on re-launch!
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Mark Hengst II
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I am fascinated by your logic. The game had a 48 hour lull, followed by some cancellations. So instead of trying to manage on the fly, you cancel outright? How about no more stretch goals? Just offer everything you plan on offering and let your consumers decide. If you only need X to make your game, make X your goal. Not Y, hoping that already planned stretch goals bring you to X. Folks at BGG seem fairly wise to how all this runs and would likely appreciate a different approach. Just my 2 cents.
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John Aronis
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Jaisyl wrote:
So what are you actually ranting about? Usually when a Campaign is cancelled and relaunched the new campaign/end product is 10X better than it would have been. I applaud Artopia, because hey choose to give up certain money for taking the time to make sure this campaign can be as successful as possible. If this gets you upset, than I’d suggest you seriously think about Kickstarter being the right place for you.


This campaign had a good page, rulebook and preview videos. The only thing they hadn’t revealed is a few stretch goals which would’ve brought people in.

When a company complains about slow progress despite funding 80% is three days because they want a mega KS, I think people have a right to call them out as trying to pull a fast one with their funding goal and stretch goal model.

And if 100% funded and publishing their product is still not a successful campaign in your eyes, then I would suggest you are the one who needs to consider if KS is the right place for you.

I know KS is the right place for me. However, similar to HoLAS, the relaunch of this is not something I am interested in at all anymore.
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Konstantinos Kokkinis
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Artipia Games is a company and we shouldn't be feeling bad for wanting to publish games that make a profit. That said, cancelling the campaign was not driven by that purpose.

We thank you all for your feedback. However, many comments auto-assume that the project would be funded. That is not the case if you take into account the vast number of campaigns that launched or will launch in the next days.



To our experience this graph does not guarantee any funding and deciding to cancel later would be much worse.

The game is complete as it is without the need of stretch rewards. However offering extra material/extra value is a Kickstarter tradition for most companies. Take any of our games and you'll see that they dont need any stretch rewards to be considered complete. We did not take anything out of the game to offer it later. This is simply extra material to reward those who support us.

A project creator has access to information that the public does not. We could see for example the ratio of people getting in the campaign and getting out and it was getting worse each day. The reason for that was that the campaign wasn't already funded.
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Mark Hengst II
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I didn't mean to imply that I thought you were stripping content from the base game, just that making your campaign goal be the actual goal of what you need is far more important than strech goal extras. The only extras I have seen that really add value are things like game tray inserts and metal coins and the like that are clearly an added price and value. Less than a week in and you were at 80% plenty of time to fund or fix things up. Looking at your charts after such a short time implies you are comparing your numbers with other campaigns. Either way, sorry to see a camapign pulled early. If you relaunch, definitely make sure your new campaign is different. Else you will lose that 80% you had before you canceled.
 
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Konstantinos Kokkinis
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Hengst2404 wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that I thought you were stripping content from the base game, just that making your campaign goal be the actual goal of what you need is far more important than stretch goal extras. The only extras I have seen that really add value are things like game tray inserts and metal coins and the like that are clearly an added price and value. Less than a week in and you were at 80% plenty of time to fund or fix things up. Looking at your charts after such a short time implies you are comparing your numbers with other campaigns. Either way, sorry to see a campaign pulled early. If you relaunch, definitely make sure your new campaign is different. Else you will lose that 80% you had before you canceled.


Dear Mark,

Don't worry. I didn't quote anyone's post in mine because i wasn't responding to any one specifically

We feel we can improve the campaign in many aspects but that would be impossible to do while it was still running. Cancelling early gives us the time we need as we do want this game to be released at Essen.

I'm sure everyone interested in the game would want the campaign to be as successful as it could be and that is what we are trying to do
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Olaf Slomp
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3pod wrote:


The game is complete as it is without the need of stretch rewards. However offering extra material/extra value is a Kickstarter tradition for most companies. Take any of our games and you'll see that they dont need any stretch rewards to be considered complete. We did not take anything out of the game to offer it later. This is simply extra material to reward those who support us.


I still don’t get the reason for cancelling then. Ok, it may not have made it to the end, why not wait and see? I came to pledge when it was already cancelled.
I’m quite curious to see what changes you will be making for a relaunch... but for now I scratched it off my list of potential buys.
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Konstantinos Kokkinis
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Olafslomp wrote:
I still don’t get the reason for cancelling then. Ok, it may not have made it to the end, why not wait and see? I came to pledge when it was already cancelled.
I’m quite curious to see what changes you will be making for a relaunch...


We do not always have the luxury of time. If there is something we know we have to address fast and we are certain is for the best, there is no point in waiting on something that may result in missing a production/release/delivery window.
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Well, the game was going to reach 100 % funding. That was not the issue. Hopefully the issue was also not that there wouldn't be enough stretch goals reached because that's just terrible planning. I was disappointed to see the cancellation (especially before I had the chance to put in some money so I could stay on top of the updates) but hopefully the new iteration will truly be improved. Will be interested in checking out the next campaign.

From my experience, the absolutely best reason to cancel a project is that you realize that you can provide the same or better experience with less money. For that reason it's sometimes better that a project does fail because afterwards the creator can improve on a lot of things they did wrong. Of course, I doubt that is what is happening to an experienced company.

So, when there is a relaunch, hopefully there will be improvements, and hopefully content will not be cut because already this campaign was going to reach the goal with ease (the last 48 hours would have breezed by that goal with no issue, I've followed and backed enough campaigns to know how it goes ). And please don't go the route of a bazillion stretch goals a few dollars apart that always add a bit of new content to the game. The game needs to be complete, what the stretch goals should add is extra component quality and cosmetics.

Anyways, good luck with the new campaign to the creators, whenever you launch it, hopefully it's improved and more successful. Will keep an eye out.
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Daniel Kearns
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What is the downside of letting a campaign run the entire duration?

There’s usually a burst of funding right at the end.
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