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Gloomhaven» Forums » Rules

Subject: (Yet Another) Monster Mover Web App rss

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Daniel Nelson
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After diving deep into Gloomhaven's monster movement rules, I wrote a web app that calculates movements and attacks. I realize there's a few others who've make similar tools, but it's been good fun, so I've got no regrets! And this one supports a few things my competitors do not.

Give it a try here: http://gloom.aluminumangel.org/

There are no ads or pop-ups or anything like that.



How to use the app:

1. Select the buttons in the upper-left to place characters, monsters, and terrain tiles.
2. The app will automatically start generating solutions once you've added an active monster.
3. Once the scenario is setup, select Play Scenario. Now you can:
a. Click on a monster to activate it.
b. Select among the monster's movement options to move it.
c. Select characters to set their initiative rank.
d. You can also drag and drop monsters and characters to move them.
4. Mouse-over many of the buttons for additional help.


Some brags:

- It correctly solves all questions on the Monster Movement Quiz, as well as all other problem scenarios I've found in the forums.
- It supports arbitrary melee and ranged AoE patterns.
- You can step through the monsters' turn, switching which monster is active and selecting between each monster's movement options.
- It is fully web-based. There's nothing to download or install.
- It has clean visuals and an easy to use interface.


Things I still need to add:

- The ability to load prebuilt scenarios. Both quiz scenarios and those in the scenario book.
- A mode that displays all hexes a monster could potentially attack given its location, move, and range.
- I'll reply to this thread as improvements come online. Version as of this post is v1.6.0.


For anyone who's curious, the web app is built using React. The solver is server side, written in Python and using Flask.


Let me know what you think! Suggestions are welcome. I believe I have all the movement rules correct, but if you find a problem, let me know.


Subsequent updates:
- Source available on GitHub: https://github.com/AluminumAngel/gloom
- Several algorithm updates to incorporate various FAQ changes and rules clarifications.
- Solver algorithm optimizations that improve turnaround time for multi-target and ranged AoE scenarios.
- Option to display line of sight and range.
- Retain state between browser sessions.
- Option to display focus and destination.
- Option to display attack sightline and obstructions.
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Ondřej Šofr
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This is great! I like the clean look and it is easy to use. Awesome job

However, I believe that this monster should stay put and attack without moving (There should be LOS). Without the 1-block wall it behaves OK
 
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Daniel Nelson
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RompersenorCZE wrote:
This is great! I like the clean look and it is easy to use. Awesome job

Thanks!

RompersenorCZE wrote:
However, I believe that this monster should stay put and attack without moving (There should be LOS). Without the 1-block wall it behaves OK

The LOS rules in Gloomhaven are pretty weird. As the rules are written, that monster does not have LOS to the character from its starting position.

There is a big long thread about it here. Basically, the monster can't draw LOS from any hex vertex that touches a wall, even if that LOS line emanates away from the wall.

Soon I will release a version of the app that shows LOS, so at least it will be more clear what's going on.
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Craig S.
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AluminumAngel wrote:
Basically, the monster can't draw LOS from any hex vertex that touches a wall, even if that LOS line emanates away from the wall.



This is true, though in practice, could it possibly matter? The monster would just draw the line from any of the other vertices which don't touch a wall...
 
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Ondřej Šofr
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AluminumAngel wrote:

The LOS rules in Gloomhaven are pretty weird. As the rules are written, that monster does not have LOS to the character from its starting position.

There is a big long thread about it here. Basically, the monster can't draw LOS from any hex vertex that touches a wall, even if that LOS line emanates away from the wall.

Soon I will release a version of the app that shows LOS, so at least it will be more clear what's going on.


Oh, thank you for enlightening me. I have completely missed this rule.
 
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Jason Edgin
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This web app is awesome sauce! I haven't seen another tool that does monster focus/movement, unless I've just missed them in my searches.
From what I can tell this is a one of a kind though.
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Dwight Sullivan
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Why are there two threads about the same thing? With the same name even?
 
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Robert Stewart
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csouth154 wrote:
AluminumAngel wrote:
Basically, the monster can't draw LOS from any hex vertex that touches a wall, even if that LOS line emanates away from the wall.



This is true, though in practice, could it possibly matter? The monster would just draw the line from any of the other vertices which don't touch a wall...


There are a couple of practical scenarios where it can come up - a monster backed into a corner, for example - as well as at least one scenario where there's a hex where all 6 vertices touch walls, so a figure there can neither see nor be seen by any other hexes, granting immunity to all attacks while in that hex (at the cost of being unable to attack)
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Craig S.
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rmsgrey wrote:
csouth154 wrote:
AluminumAngel wrote:
Basically, the monster can't draw LOS from any hex vertex that touches a wall, even if that LOS line emanates away from the wall.



This is true, though in practice, could it possibly matter? The monster would just draw the line from any of the other vertices which don't touch a wall...


There are a couple of practical scenarios where it can come up - a monster backed into a corner, for example - as well as at least one scenario where there's a hex where all 6 vertices touch walls, so a figure there can neither see nor be seen by any other hexes, granting immunity to all attacks while in that hex (at the cost of being unable to attack)


"Backed into a corner" implies 2 vertices which do not touch a wall. As for all six touching a wall, granted I haven't played too many scenarios, but I have never seen such a thing and have trouble even imagining that it would exist. I guess I'll take your word on it, though...
 
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Robert Stewart
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csouth154 wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
csouth154 wrote:
AluminumAngel wrote:
Basically, the monster can't draw LOS from any hex vertex that touches a wall, even if that LOS line emanates away from the wall.



This is true, though in practice, could it possibly matter? The monster would just draw the line from any of the other vertices which don't touch a wall...


There are a couple of practical scenarios where it can come up - a monster backed into a corner, for example - as well as at least one scenario where there's a hex where all 6 vertices touch walls, so a figure there can neither see nor be seen by any other hexes, granting immunity to all attacks while in that hex (at the cost of being unable to attack)


"Backed into a corner" implies 2 vertices which do not touch a wall. As for all six touching a wall, granted I haven't played too many scenarios, but I have never seen such a thing and have trouble even imagining that it would exist. I guess I'll take your word on it, though...


On the V-shaped map tiles, there are edge hexes where a vertex touching the wall would be able to "see" some hexes around the corner that aren't visible from any other vertex of that hex - and something similar can happen with seeing through doors.
 
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Daniel Nelson
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Version 1.7.0 is live. The app now conforms to recent ruling and clarifications of the FAQ

Changes include:

1) The algorithm has been updated to account for this ruling on choosing destinations. Players choose amoung all equal destinations, even in cases when the monster can make more progress towards one destination than another.
2) The algorithm has been updated to account for this ruling on choosing secondary targets. Secondary targets are no longer ranked based on the move distance required to attack them individually. Rather, they are ranked only on proximity and initiative.
3) Various optimizations that speed up calculating path distances, solving multitarget attacks, and testing line of sight.

More Detail on #1
This scenario now gives two solutions, one per valid destination. For one destination, the monster is unable to make progress, so does not move.

Scenario:


Two solutions:


Ruling:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29431412#29431412

More Detail on #2
In this scenario the monster chooses character 2 as its secondary target, even though individually attacking character 2 would require more movement than character 3.

Scenario and solution:


AoE:


Ruling:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29431623#29431623
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Daniel Nelson
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From recent posts by aflorin (in the thread Ranged AoE and wall hexes), it's clear I'm measuring range for AoE attacks incorrectly. Once a final ruling is given, I'll fix the algorithm.
 
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Arthur Janicek
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There's a super corner case where a monster will move onto a damage trap hex if that's the only way to its focus, even if the hex is occupied by its ally and if stepping onto the trap would kill said monster.

This would require you to add fields that define monster HP and trap damage.

Here's the link to the official ruling.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29055119#29055119
 
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Daniel Nelson
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Daemon6 wrote:
There's a super corner case where a monster will move onto a damage trap hex if that's the only way to its focus, even if the hex is occupied by its ally and if stepping onto the trap would kill said monster.

This would require you to add fields that define monster HP and trap damage.

Here's the link to the official ruling.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29055119#29055119

Wow, I had no idea. Thanks for the heads up! I need to think about how to incorporate that without overly complicating the interface for such a corner case.
 
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Daniel Nelson
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Version 1.8.0 is live. I've updated the app to conform to recent rulings and clarifications in the FAQ.

Changes:

1) The algorithm has been updated to account for this ruling on ranged AoE. You can no longer measure range into a wall for AoE template placement. At least one hex of the AoE that is within range must also not be in a wall.
2) The algorithm has been updated to account for this ruling on avoiding disadvantage when attacking secondary targets. Monsters are now willing to move farther to avoid attacking secondary targets with disadvantage. Yet they still choose those targets based on minimizing movement to an attack location without consideration for avoiding disadvantage.

More Detail on #1
There is only a single hex within range that allows an AoE placement that hits the character. When that hex is a wall, the monster is unable to attack.




Ruling:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29496123#29496123

More Detail on #2
The monster will move farther than necessary to attack in order to avoid disadvantage against secondary targets. Here character 1 is the focus. When not muddled, the monster moves an additional step to avoid disadvantage when attacking character 2.




Ruling:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29496633#29496633
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Russ Lemmingwinks
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It's a broken. LOS does not work like this.
 
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Martin Ender
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lemmingrus wrote:
It's a broken. LOS does not work like this.

It's hard to tell what exactly you think is wrong there if you don't show the monster's stats, but the app doesn't indicate that the monster would actually attack the character (otherwise there would be a red circle around the character). Are you sure you've selected a sufficiently high range that LoS would even matter?
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Fred Snertz
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This is the only tool like this I've seen and it looks awesome. I was trying to figure out when a monster would and wouldn't move into a trap but I came across this scenario where the monster doesn't move. Can you explain? Thanks.

 
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Martin Ender
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There is no line-of-sight to the character, because all corners of the character's hex are touching walls (and LoS is only counted from corner to corner and is not allowed to touch a wall).
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Fred Snertz
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Ah, ok. It looks very counter intuitive to say there is no LoS there but rules are rules. I'm only a handful of scenarios in but I expect this is never going to come up in a real game. More likely the 2 hexes above would be obstacles and then there is LoS. Thanks.
 
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Daniel Frey
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shrimple wrote:
This is the only tool like this I've seen and it looks awesome. I was trying to figure out when a monster would and wouldn't move into a trap but I came across this scenario where the monster doesn't move. Can you explain? Thanks.



Yes: In your example the monster has no valid targets on which it could focus, because every corner of the player 1 Hex is a wall and therefore the monster has no line-of-sight (LoS) to the player hex, from any hex (even from the only non-wall hex next to the player there is no LoS). This is per Isaac's ruling and RAW, even though the result seems quite counter intuitive to many players. See the whole thread with Isaac's ruling (via Alex on p.5; he also suggests a "edge-to-edge" houserule as a way arround the problem in this thread) and also the discussion below this quiz item.
So in your example the monster doesn't move b/c it can't find focus / has no valid targets (cf. Rulebook p.30).

Edit: ninja'ed
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Arthur Janicek
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Just to illustrate from my previous post in this forum. The monster with move two may in fact step onto the trap which is occupied by its (flying) ally if the trap or hazardous terrain (in which case the ally would not necessarily have to fly) would kill it. Your app has it stop short and it's up to the players to deduce that it may in fact walk to its demise.
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Daniel Nelson
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Daemon6 wrote:


Just to illustrate from my previous post in this forum. The monster with move two may in fact step onto the trap which is occupied by its (flying) ally if the trap or hazardous terrain (in which case the ally would not necessarily have to fly) would kill it. Your app has it stop short and it's up to the players to deduce that it may in fact walk to its demise.

Thanks, Daemon6. I still have that on my list of things to fix. I'd rather not add UI for trap damage and monster health, but if I have to I have to.
 
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Daniel Nelson
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I've updated the app. This new version (v2.0.0) has the option to show line of sight and range.


To the lower-right of the map, there are three new buttons: Show Movement, Show Reach, and Show Line of Sight.


- The button Show Line of Sight controls whether the monster's line of sight is displayed. The hexes in line of sight will be highlighted blue.

- The button Show Reach controls whether the monster's line of sight limited by range is displayed. The hexes in range will be highlighted yellow.

- The button Show Movement controls whether the monster's movement is displayed. This defaults to on. While on, line of sight for the monster's ending hex is displayed. When off, line of sight for the monster's starting hex is displayed.




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Arthur Janicek
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AluminumAngel wrote:
Daemon6 wrote:


Just to illustrate from my previous post in this forum. The monster with move two may in fact step onto the trap which is occupied by its (flying) ally if the trap or hazardous terrain (in which case the ally would not necessarily have to fly) would kill it. Your app has it stop short and it's up to the players to deduce that it may in fact walk to its demise.

Thanks, Daemon6. I still have that on my list of things to fix. I'd rather not add UI for trap damage and monster health, but if I have to I have to.

You could add a text box that pops up and says something like "The monster may move onto the occupied trap/hazardous hex if it would result in the monster dying, otherwise it moves to one of the other noted hexes."
That way you don't have to add new fields defining the characteristics of traps/hazards and monster HP.

Another point is that if a monster passes through hazardous terrain or a damage trap that kills it on its way to its destination hex or a stun or immobilize trap that stops it on the trap, it'll never make it to its destination hex. The app doesn't reflect this either. It's up to the players to override the result and change the outcome. May be misleading for some players if they overlook this.
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