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Subject: Categories of Factions rss

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Michael Gonzalez
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I don't remember if someone (even me!) has already asked this, but would anyone be willing to categorize the factions, in their opinion?

For example, some obviously "Expansionist" ones would be both Terra Planet factions. On the other hand, Ambas, Ivits, and Xenos seem more... "Federationist"? And there are obviously Science-Based ones (like the Ice Planet races).

What do you think? What are the types? Which type(s) do each Faction belong to?
 
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Michael Gonzalez
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My initial (very rough) sketch would be:

Expansionist Type:
Terrans
Lantids
Gleens
Geodens

Federationist Type:
Ambas
Ivits
Xenos
Bescods? (I don't know this, but their PI ability has to do with power for Feds, and I started had 4 tiles the only time I played them).

Science Types
Itars
Nevlas
Firaks

What other types are there? Gaia Experts? That would include Terrans and Bal'Taks, I would assume...

What about heavy Power Types, like Taklons and Nevlas?
 
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Jon Kern
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What are you trying to find out or understand with these categories?
 
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Michael Gonzalez
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Limitless333 wrote:
What are you trying to find out or understand with these categories?

Mainly, I'm trying to understand comments that I read from you expert players, when you say things like "X is important for Expansionist races".

But, my ultimate goal is deeper. I'm realizing more and more that the best players structure their strategies around the strengths of the faction, and how to leverage those; making FS and RS just incidental bonuses (I mean even 36 from FS is a pretty small portion of 200)....
 
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James Ataei
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I see what you are attempting and it's a good idea, but it would probably work better on some type of rating scale of factors that you mention as well as several others. For instance on power action usage I'd start rating Taklons as a 12, Nevlas a 10, and Baltak a 5. What basis am I using for this? Average power actions taken per game. Each factor you come up with has to be defined first and then if you want to compare across types, then you normalize them to similar scale.
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Michael Gonzalez
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JamesWolfpacker wrote:
I see what you are attempting and it's a good idea, but it would probably work better on some type of rating scale of factors that you mention as well as several others. For instance on power action usage I'd start rating Taklons as a 12, Nevlas a 10, and Baltak a 5. What basis am I using for this? Average power actions taken per game. Each factor you come up with has to be defined first and then if you want to compare across types, then you normalize them to similar scale.

That makes perfect sense, and is probably the exact way to do it... but, I doubt I have the expertise to do it well. I can see why Taklons would rate highly in power action usage, but I had no idea how many actions they'd take on average until you said so. Lol....

"Expansion" could be measured in a erage number of buildings per game or average number of types, so maybe it should be split up somehow... "Science" is more straightforward, since it has to do with number of tech tiles and tech bumps per game....

I'd love it if someone like you or John or Bokken wanted to take a stab at it (all I could offer the kind soul would be some GeekGold!).

If not, then at least a general idea of who you mean when you say "Expansionist Faction" or "Science Faction", and what general types you think in terms of... it would be helpful to a lot of us neophytes.
 
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Robin Zigmond
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It seems silly to define "science factions" as a separate family while giving no mention to "economic factions" - those who get their advantages from a superior economy. The following factions surely fit into this category:
- Hadsch Hallas (obvious)
- Taklons (the Brainstone allows them to get much more economic value out of their power cycling)
- Ambas (for the extra ore per round)
- Xenos (they start with an extra mine, which means you need to invest fewer resources than everyone else for the same economy - or, more likely, get a better economy while investing the same resources)

And you could probably argue the case for a few more eg Terrans, once their PI is built.
 
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Jon Kern
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Really it comes down to how much of a faction's power is tied up in their PI or Academies (Itars). The earlier you need to build it to have an advantage the less time you have to build your economy.

Almost always, If you build a PI/A on rounds 1-3 your next round will be economically weak. If your faction can afford to delay the PI/A like the Xenos or Bescods, you can focus your attention on RL, TS, and Mines which help build your economy.

We generally go for early PI/A to help us establish a point engine not an economic engine. That said Gaia Project has a tendency to mix the two slightly which creates confusion.
 
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Jack Liu
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I view each race as a combination of 1-2 strengths usually. Some are more focused on a main strength with a lower priority secondary one while others are close to 50/50. I realize that every races does these things to an extent but I view it as "What are the main objectives I want to achieve with this faction to be able to best succeed?"

Types:
Expansion
Gaia
Technology

Econ
Federation
Power

Examples:
Ambas - Expansion + Feds
Terran - Gaia + a bit of everything else
Nevlas - Technology + Power
Talkon - Econ/Power + a bit of everything else
HH - Econ + a bit of everything else
Mad Androids - Technology + Fed
Gleen - Expansion + Gaia

Race selection wise, you don't want more than 2 races that focus on a main strength because they will be competing too heavily for it and the odd player out will benefit from the fighting in a 4p game. In a 3p, you don't want to contest another player too heavily in one area unless the FS really dictates it. There is usually enough to go around
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Jon Kern
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What do you all mean by economy factions? Do you just mean factions that move up the economy track? I am almost positive that Mine and Trade Stations generate more economy than Research Labs, Academies, and Planetary Institutes.

For comparison, upgrading a RL to an Academy costs 6 ore and 6 coins and generates a return of +1k and +4c or +1ore to keep it simple. For the following examples I will assume that the tech step for the Academy yields 1 ore income. So the total I will use as an example is 1K+2O

For 6 ore and 6 coins I could instead build 3 Mines for 3 ore income or 1 Mine and 1 Trade Station (only 5 ore) for 1 ore and 4 coin income plus 1 ore. I assume that each planet cost 1 ore to settle. Economy wise, 3O>1K+2O=1O+4C (+1O).

The Academy is primarily good because it allows for consistent tech steps which will provide points and not significantly less economy than other options, but I do think that it is important to specify what we really mean by saying that this is an economy faction.
 
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James Ataei
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I'd classify an Econ faction as one that has a superior or more versatile economy either based on base stats or preference of going up the econ track. HHs have a base +3c and can use their coins to get other stuff. Ambas have a base +1o. Secondary factions with econ boosts are Taklons and Nevlas since their power can be leveraged to econ. Terrans also are a secondary econ faction due to their PI. I wouldn't classify Itars as a secondary econ even though they have a base +1pt and get a lot of income tech tiles because they could technically choose non income tech tiles.
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Jon Kern
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Quote:
I'd classify an Econ faction as one that has a superior or more versatile economy either based on base stats or preference of going up the econ track. HHs have a base +3c and can use their coins to get other stuff. Ambas have a base +1o. Secondary factions with econ boosts are Taklons and Nevlas since their power can be leveraged to econ. Terrans also are a secondary econ faction due to their PI. I wouldn't classify Itars as a secondary econ even though they have a base +1pt and get a lot of income tech tiles because they could technically choose non income tech tiles.

I can get behind HH, Ambas, and Taklons being economy factions, but the Nevlas and Terrans must first reduce their coin income and spend 4 ore and 6 coins to unlock their supposed economy engine. This means that they would have an early game net resource disadvantage that hopefully would be offset by the economy gain from their PI. I wouldn't classify them as economy factions because of this.
 
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Jack Liu
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I was mostly thinking HH and Taklon.

It’s not only resource superiority but also resource flexibility. HH can swap credits to anything so they are better able to utilize their resources effectively. Taklon can do a similar thing with pw free actions

Ambas +1o is also a huge boon to them but I consider that more as a unique perk that allows them to be better at their main objective
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Kester J
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I like frotes' approach. My own thinking about an econ faction is that it's one where I'm expecting to pick up more points than usual from building things: whether that's from particular endgame goals (most of which reward building a lot of stuff), round boosters, or round scoring.

Power factions are an odd one: they don't quite map the same way as the others, as they're essentially part expansionist (from dig actions) and part economy (from the rest).
 
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