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Jooice ZP
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The expansion includes a new mission that is always in the imperial deck it is Admiral Motti's card: Discredit Rebellion



I feel like this card is very unlike the rest of the game.
It has the Empire spend a leader knowing that in most cases the card will have no effect.
In most cases the Rebels will simply roll a die, and out of those cases only 1/6 of them will have any impact. If the Rebels don't roll the die, then they probably don't care about the sabotage markers being removed.

We have considered removing the card from the game, but where is the fun in that.

I tried to think what could be useful about this card, the 2 benefits I can see is the removal of sabotage from a non-imperial loyal system (construct factory also does this - but it is a project and comes with an additional benefit). The other potential advantage is that more then 1 sabotage can be removed at the same time (rarely).

We came up with this variant:
Attempt in any system with a sabotage marker, if successful remove the sabotage marker from this system. If Admiral Motti attempts this mission the Empire may remove a second sabotage marker from the board.

The thought process behind this:
The card still maintains that it can remove a sabotage - now from anywhere. You would need Admiral Motti for it to be stronger (he isn't recruited very often from my experience). I had it be an attempt to maintain the difficulty of the card achieving something. However I did realize the card has a logistics symbol (which is reserved for resolve missions). I did think that perhaps the symbol on the card should be yellow or blue (I guess thematically it should be yellow - I was just imagining it as blue for some reason). I think that the Empire will most likely be able to achieve this mission if they really want to, and while Motti himself has a disadvantage in removing a sabotage that has just been put down from a system(lets call it system 1), he can always attempt the mission in another sabotaged system (system 2) and remove the system 1's sabotage as well.


Does anyone have any thought about this card? and variant?
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Conan Meriadoc
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A 1 in 6 chance to lose an entire turn is quite a gamble for the Rebels, though. That, for a measly 1 Logistics Resolve icon. The card is also very thematic.

If I had to change something, I'd add a "Return to hand" effect to the card in case the roll fails, to better show the effects of a long-running misinformation campaign :

"The Rebel player must either remove all sabotage markers from the board, or roll a die. If he rolls at least one X, he loses one reputation. Otherwise this card is returned to your hand."

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Joseph Prophet
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Dystopian wrote:
A 1 in 6 chance to lose an entire turn is quite a gamble for the Rebels, though. That, for a measly 1 Logistics Resolve icon. The card is also very thematic.

If I had to change something, I'd add a "Return to hand" effect to the card in case the roll fails, to better show the effects of a long-running misinformation campaign :

"The Rebel player must either remove all sabotage markers from the board, or roll a die. If he rolls at least one X, he loses one reputation. Otherwise this card is returned to your hand."



OOOOHHH that's interesting, I like it.

But also agree, the gamble is really huge, and most of the time I'll take the sabotage removal, even if that hurts me significantly.
 
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Dan P
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Motti's mission card is logistics for the same reason Cassian's is - they gave each side four new leaders, so one new leader mission for each skill icon. I don't know if that was necessary for balance, but I think it makes a lot more sense for Motti to have a logistics mission than Cassian. Also, if you make his mission an attempt, then he would get two bonus successes but no other special benefit, to stay consistent with all other leader missions.

I do hate this card, though, as I think the risk-reward balance is out of step with the rest of the game. It's rarely a difficult choice for the Rebels. If your sabotage markers are vital to protecting the base or scoring Cut Supply Lines, you always roll - if they're not, you don't roll. The small chance of losing reputation just feels unearned for the Empire.

I agree you could make it just a sabotage removal card with no reputation function and it would be both fairer and more useful. Maybe something like "roll three green dice - if Motti resolves, add one black or red die - and remove one sabotage marker of your choice for each success."



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Brian Leet
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Burlington
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How about:

"The Rebel player must either remove all sabotage markers from the board, or roll a die. If he rolls an X, he loses one reputation. On any other roll, if Admiral Motti attempted this mission this card is returned to your hand."
 
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Jooice ZP
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Bobb Feta wrote:
Motti's mission card is logistics for the same reason Cassian's is - they gave each side four new leaders, so one new leader mission for each skill icon. I don't know if that was necessary for balance, but I think it makes a lot more sense for Motti to have a logistics mission than Cassian. Also, if you make his mission an attempt, then he would get two bonus successes but no other special benefit, to stay consistent with all other leader missions.

I do hate this card, though, as I think the risk-reward balance is out of step with the rest of the game. It's rarely a difficult choice for the Rebels. If your sabotage markers are vital to protecting the base or scoring Cut Supply Lines, you always roll - if they're not, you don't roll. The small chance of losing reputation just feels unearned for the Empire.

I agree you could make it just a sabotage removal card with no reputation function and it would be both fairer and more useful. Maybe something like "roll three green dice - if Motti resolves, add one black or red die - and remove one sabotage marker of your choice for each success."



You are right that this would " break the balance " of the new leader cards.
However that balance is only there for the expansion cards.
In the base game the Rebels have 3,4,4,1 cards of yellow,blue,red,white symbols respectively
While the Empire has 4,3,5,0 yellow,blue,red,white respectively.
So there wasn't much of a balance in those(there was a balance in the non face cards).

In the base game the Empire had 2 resolve face cards: Double our efforts (yellow) and probe droid initiative (blue) while the rebels also had 2 seek Yoda (blue) and contingency plan (white) -but the later doesn't quite count the same since it is just replaced by a different card - which is often an attempt.

I will also agree with you that Secret Mission should definitely not been a logistics mission, thematically it is as intelligence as it gets also Cassian is the the intelligence king (according to the symbols) it is very odd that his card ends up being a logistics card.
The only explanation besides keeping the balance of 1 of each is that perhaps they wanted certain starting leaders to be able to accomplish the mission over others, perhaps give MM and Rieekan a little more to accomplish besides the stuff they are usually assigned to.
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Dystopian wrote:
"The Rebel player must either remove all sabotage markers from the board, or roll a die. If he rolls at least one X, he loses one reputation. Otherwise this card is returned to your hand."

PghArch wrote:
"The Rebel player must either remove all sabotage markers from the board, or roll a die. If he rolls an X, he loses one reputation. On any other roll, if Admiral Motti attempted this mission this card is returned to your hand."

Both of those are excellent, but IMO the first one is better, because it both gives a good reason to recruit Motti and improves that card significantly even without having him recruited.

I do like how basic Intel missions (Gather Intel and Infiltration) work in this game because it represents quite well how it would work in practice - the more time and effort you put into Intel missions, the better results of this investment (which works also for other mission types, BTW). That mechanism would fit perfectly to that card too. It would force the Rebels to take a difficult decision every turn - whether to waste their efforts for cutting the Imperial supply lines and to start right from the beginning, or to risk making a game longer again and again. The odds would quickly sum up to a level comparable with attempt(s) of playing Death Star Plans using a standard roll.


Another option IMO worth of considering is to give 1 die per each sabotage marker present on a board instead of just a 1 standard die (if there was no "return to hand" phrase involved). Motti's bonus kept the same then.
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Christopher C
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We house rule that you roll a green die (or two with Motti) and on the critical it succeeds. That makes the odds a lot riskier for the rebels and even with 3 sabotages, they have to really think about rolling the dice. Before we were doing that, rebel player always chose to roll, and we never once had it land the cross.
 
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Jooice ZP
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MIheatplaya25 wrote:
We house rule that you roll a green die (or two with Motti) and on the critical it succeeds. That makes the odds a lot riskier for the rebels and even with 3 sabotages, they have to really think about rolling the dice. Before we were doing that, rebel player always chose to roll, and we never once had it land the cross.


That isn't bad.

We felt that this push your luck aspect just wasn't quite right for the game.

Missions should be about a plan, using your leaders in order to accomplish what you need. Putting your opponent in a hard spot, not of hoping a green die comes up a certain way, but by putting in a leader to oppose and giving something else up.

We came up with this version:


While R&D allows you to remove a sabotage by resolving the mission and gives you 1 project, the new Discredit Rebellion somewhat keeps true to the intent of the card where the sabotage won't necessarily be removed, however it can be attempted in any sabotaged system. Construct factory also allows removing sabotage from subjugated systems (with unit bonuses), so this is a real ability in the game.
Although Motti would have a hard time accomplishing this mission if opposed, he has the luxury of attempting it in a different sabotaged system from the one the Rebels are likely to already be in.

In the beginning of the game I would definitely want to play R&D fro the project gain, but later on this card becomes very useful.

I am happy with how it came out.
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Dan P
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jooice wrote:
We came up with this version:


While R&D allows you to remove a sabotage by resolving the mission and gives you 1 project, the new Discredit Rebellion somewhat keeps true to the intent of the card where the sabotage won't necessarily be removed, however it can be attempted in any sabotaged system. Construct factory also allows removing sabotage from subjugated systems (with unit bonuses), so this is a real ability in the game.
Although Motti would have a hard time accomplishing this mission if opposed, he has the luxury of attempting it in a different sabotaged system from the one the Rebels are likely to already be in.

In the beginning of the game I would definitely want to play R&D fro the project gain, but later on this card becomes very useful.

I am happy with how it came out.
Looks good. The only thing that bugs me is this would be the only "attempt" mission where the pictured leader gets an additional effect instead of two bonus successes.
 
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Jooice ZP
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Yeah I guess that is true.
I was thinking of all the missions that do give an additional ability (like Double our Efforts). But as you said, all those are resolve missions.

I guess it is a little inconsistent, but this card was so out of the ordinary that I started this thread.
 
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Koziołek Matołek
Poland
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I dont like this card aż A Rebel Player but i think its well designed. Tough choice especially when Motti resolves this mission. Returning card to hand would be way too Op. The card could just be saying 'Remove all sabotage markers' because i wouldnt take reoccurring risk of losing reputation. And removing sabotage is already Easy enough.
 
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