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Urban Operations» Forums » Rules

Subject: Firelane and impact question rss

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Davide Banchini
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I'm trying to understand rules about firelane.
In the example below (I added a new block D),
assuming D is enemy to A and C is friendly.
According to impact table (page 24), is it true that C automatically takes 1 Operation Loss and D remains unharmed?

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Nicola S
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While counter-intuitive for those used to more 'traditional' wargames, it is exactly as you have interpreted.

8.2.1.1 spells it out in the fourth bullet : the only enemy block affected is the target block.

Peccato che viviamo così lontano...
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Francois-Xavier Euzet
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RolloTommasi wrote:
I'm trying to understand rules about firelane.
In the example below (I added a new block D),
assuming D is enemy to A and C is friendly.
According to impact table (page 24), is it true that C automatically takes 1 Operation Loss and D remains unharmed?


you are right.
This game was developped as a serious game and thus try to makes you act as real soldiers would. So no calculation of "ok I have a loss but he also have one and I'm fine that way". Here only your troops are affected by firelane so you don't fire as a real soldier would do.

counter-intuitive but makes you act realisticaly in the end
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Davide Banchini
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Grazie Nicola, (yes we live quite distant for a face to face game session!), and thanks Francois.

So the meaning is to teach the soldier to shoot *only if he is really sure to do that*. And maybe once he shoots in real life, the actual chances are different from those proposed in the game (100% hit/miss) but what he have learned during training could save lives.



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Francois-Xavier Euzet
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Yes but don't see osl as losses only. This value bear the right name, it is how the unit is "operational". It is also morale, ammunition and simply capability to fight. One wounded can make a bloc disappear as the rest of the unit is taking it to the rear for example. No dead but no unit either. They are not taken out but unable to act as fighting unit for the current operation.
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Nicola S
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Glad to be of help.

To clarify further on my little incipit to my previous post: I love the game and would play it any day if I had the opponent to do it. My comment stems from the fact that most people I introduced the game to felt it ‘contradicted’ what they seem to consider the norm (read ASL and all its derivatives) and some actually walked away from their first (and only?) game clearly disappointed that it did not ‘work’ as they expected.
I think one of the great strengths of the game is actually in this ‘counterintuitiveness’, if not only for the fact that it offers a novel approach that requires you to think twice before you do things and that also feels well matched to its topic (i.e. urban warfare).

I look forward to the expansions in the works.

And to be able to play more of the game...ugh...
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Davide Banchini
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_viper_ wrote:
(...) the fact that most people I introduced the game to felt it ‘contradicted’ what they seem to consider the norm (read ASL and all its derivatives) and some actually walked away from their first (and only?) game clearly disappointed that it did not ‘work’ as they expected.
(...)


Interesting. Maybe one of the most difficult thing to cope with (at least for me) is that some things happens with no uncertainty, as the things in the Impact table. Maybe some player can ask "why my friendly block lose operational level for sure, while the _adjacent_ enemy block doesnt lose anything?, again for sure"

Actually I asked myself why there's no dice roll for most of the Impact table results. But I don't have the game, so I can't try how the moving parts interact.

 
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Francois-Xavier Euzet
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_viper_ wrote:
Glad to be of help.

To clarify further on my little incipit to my previous post: I love the game and would play it any day if I had the opponent to do it. My comment stems from the fact that most people I introduced the game to felt it ‘contradicted’ what they seem to consider the norm (read ASL and all its derivatives) and some actually walked away from their first (and only?) game clearly disappointed that it did not ‘work’ as they expected.
I think one of the great strengths of the game is actually in this ‘counterintuitiveness’, if not only for the fact that it offers a novel approach that requires you to think twice before you do things and that also feels well matched to its topic (i.e. urban warfare).

I look forward to the expansions in the works.

And to be able to play more of the game...ugh...

most of us are raised seing Hollywood movies. And for most peoples they tend to imagine that it is close to reality. unfortunately it is not going that way in reality. And I feel pretty confident with the game as it wasn't developped as a game for player but for soldiers, made by a soldiers who's job is to learn other how to fight on urban environment. So to me I think he is more suited to say what's possible and what's not in reality
But after that I can understand that it does not interest peoples that prefer hollywood style games. It's just a matter of taste after all (and no judgment involved in this sentence) but for me I was looking for such kind of game that make me feel how it could look like in reality
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Nicola S
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RolloTommasi wrote:


Actually I asked myself why there's no dice roll for most of the Impact table results. But I don't have the game, so I can't try how the moving parts interact.



Because you have to keep in mind that the game was developed as an educational tool to teach MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) to actual soldiers.
Also, if you read some accounts of the fighting in some urban areas, you will see, for example, that:
- nobody wants to stay close to a friendly tank firing
- following the fighting in Iraq in 2003, most nations invested more and more in AT weapons with almost no backblast so that they can be used from inside buildings (something the game does not allow you to do with a ‘standard’ RPG-7 for example exactly because of its backblast)
- etc.
So the game models reality probably ‘better’ than others...

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Davide Banchini
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_viper_ wrote:

Because you have to keep in mind that the game was developed as an educational tool to teach MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) to actual soldiers.



FX Euzet) wrote:

most of us are raised seing Hollywood movies. And for most peoples they tend to imagine that it is close to reality. unfortunately it is not going that way in reality.


Yes, that was clear, it's a new approach to wargaming
I'm circling around trying to convince myself if I can appreciate the
game or not, and maybe pull the trigger (you see what I did here? ) to eventually purchase it.

There are many things that I like in this game,
the urban warfare environment, the tactical scale, the hex map, the weapon details, real life pictures (those unit cards are very good), the interactivity of the turn, the randomness created by dice and cards.
I'm not very fond of rotating blocks, I can't stand a soldier running upside down on the map surprise, but I can understand it's not possible the use of multi-step counters like Fields of Fire if you want to preserve the fog of war aspect.

The best thing is try it before purchase, but as said before, Rome is too far to be doable and no Vassal is not the right way for me now.

I can wait and watch some video session (if there are some, for now there are a lot of unboxing) to better understand if I like it or not. Anyway, thank guys for your considerations.
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