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Subject: a lot of rules questions rss

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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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Overall, I think the rule book is very good especially with the clarifications in the expansion rule book. However, I have a few questions. I hope you can answer my questions (with references if possible). Please, if I overlooked an answer that is already in another thread, just point me to it so we can keep the discussion about it all in the same place. Thanks

Setup

1) The rules do not say to shuffle the building stack during setup. Surly this is an accidental omission.

2) During setup, what do you do with
the ambassador
the lieutenant,
the building control markers,
the five 100-VP tokens, and
the remaining twelve 1-VP tokens?
For now, we put the ambassador and lieutenant on the board between the intrigue discard pile and the agents that will come out at the beginning of round five. We put building control markers in corresponding players' taverns, and put the 1-VP and 100-VP tokens in the supply with the adventures and gold tokens.

General Rules

3) On page 8, in the first column, under "Actions In A Turn" it says, "..., you take one or both of the following actions. 1. Assign Agent 2. Complete Quest." This suggests that on your turn you have three choices:
A Both assign an agent and complete a quest,
B Assign an agent only, or
C Complete a quest only.
However, I do not think option C was intended to be an option. I believe it was intended that very turn you must assign an agent if you can. Then, if you assign an agent, you have the option to complete a quest. Am I correct? Furthermore, what if you are forced to pass because there are no legal places for you to place an agent? Then can you still complete a quest? Moreover, for option A, do you have a choice in what order you do those two things or must you assign an agent before completing the quest?

4) On page 10, in the first column, at the end of the "Waterdeep Harbor" section, it says, "Some game effects [other than Waterdeep Harbor] also allow players to reassign Agents during play." However, I cannot find any buildings, intrigue cards, or quest rewards that reassign agents. What game effects are they referring to?

5) Running Out of Stuff: You can only hire as many adventures as there are available cubes. However, what if you run out of gold tokens? Is it possible to run out of quest cards or intrigue cards? If so what do you do? There is only one 100-VP token per player. What if you score over 199 points, which we frequently do? I have also heard of people scoring over 299.
In particular, what if you run out of adventures, gold, or VP tokens when, at the start of the round, you need to fill the accumulating buildings? For example what if there or no clerics in the supply and you need to load the Spires of the Morning? Do you simply not put another cleric on that building this round? Similarly, what if there is only one fighter in the supply and you need to load Fetlock Court with two? In that case, does it get the one remaining?

6) Can you complete a quest when the reward cannot be fully realized? For example, what if there are fewer than six fighters in the supply when you want to complete Heal Fallen Grey Hand Soldiers that awards six fighters? Must you wait to complete that quest or can you complete it and take fewer fighters? Can you complete Prison Break, which allows you to play an intrigue card, even if you do not have an intrigue card? If you have an intrigue card, are you required to play it after completing Prison Break or is it optional. Similarly, when you complete Placate the Walking Statue or Lure Artisans of Mirabar, are you required to put a building in play or is it optional?

7) Assigning Agents: In Appendix 3 "Clarifications" of the expansion rulebook on page 14, it says, "If a player cannot assign an Agent because no action space is available, that player must pass, and play proceeds to the next player." Should that read, "no legal action space?" It goes on to says, "If no player can legally assign an Agent, the round ends." However, shouldn't you then proceed to reassigning agents from Waterdeep Harbor? Or, do those folks miss out on their reassignments?
What if this lack of legal spaces comes up when reassigning agents from Waterdeep Harbor? For example, what if the player with an agent in action space 1 has no legal action space? Can I assume he is skipped and the player with an agent in space 2 goes? What if the result of that player's turn changes the state of things such that the player in action space 1 now has a legal move? Does the player in action space 1 get to go now before the player in action space 3, or after him, or not at all? What if while reassigning agents from Waterdeep Harbor, it becomes possible for an unassigned agent to be placed? Does that agent then get a turn or has he lost his chance?

8) Choice Order: In Appendix 3 "Clarifications" of the expansion rulebook on page 14, it says, "Some actions and card effects require one or more players to make choices. ..., each player should choose in turn. Start with the player who is taking the action or causing the choice effect, or the first player." How do you decide whether to start with the current player or with the first player? What if the first player marker has changed hands? Is the "first player" the player that currently has the first player marker or the player who had it at the beginning of the round?

9) Completing Actions: In Appendix 3 "Clarifications" of the expansion rulebook on page 14, it says, "You must be able to follow all the instructions on an action space in order to take that action. This includes paying the cost of buying a Building, returning 2 Adventurers at the Three Pearls, playing an Intrigue card at Waterdeep Harbor, and so forth." The base rulebook also says on page 6 under "Adventures," If there aren't enough of a particular Adventure type in the supply to hire, you can only hire as many as are available."
Does this mean that if there is only one rogue in the supply, you cannot go to The Grinning Lion Tavern because you cannot complete the action of hiring two rogues in full? Or, can you go there and hire the one remaining rogue?
What if you can complete the entire action of an advanced building but due to an empty supply, the owner cannot receive his or her benefit?
What if you have an intrigue card but you cannot follow its instructions in full? Can you still go to Waterdeep Harbor and play that intrigue card? For example, consider Research Agreement, which states, "Take a wizard from the supply and place it in your Tavern. Each opponent can choose to give you a wizard once to score 5 VP." Can you play this intrigue card when the supply is empty of wizards?
What if taking an action will trigger a plot quest such as Bolster Griffon Cavalry, Bribe the Shipwrights or Fence goods for Duke of Darkness and the plot quest cannot be satisfied? Does that bar you from taking the action or can you take the action and forgo the bonus awarded by the plot quest?

Basic Buildings

10) Builder's Hall: When you buy a building or otherwise put a building from builder's hall into play, what happens to the VP tokens that are on the tile? Do they stay on the tile, go to the player, are discarded, go to the supply, go on the new building that fills its slot in builder's hall, or something else? Furthermore, the rules say, "You immediately score any VP for that Building ...." We are assuming that "the VP for that Building" is the VP chips on that building but it is not clear. See page 9 "Builder's Hall."

11) Builder's Hall: What do you do if the building stack becomes empty and you need to draw another building? I know it is extremely unlikely but possible if all of the following come out early enough in the game especially the first two.
* The Zoarstar (Building) (use space occupied by opponent)
* Recover the Magister's Orb (Plot Quest) (use space occupied by opponent once per round)
* Lure Artisans of Mirabar (Quest) (puts a building in play)
* Placate the Walking Statute (Quest) (puts a building in play)
* Research Chronomancy (Quest) (return assigned agent to pool)
* Bribe Agent (Intrigue x2) (use space occupied by opponent)
* Real Estate Deal (Intrigue x1) (discard a building and put another in play)
* Recall Agent (Intrigue x2) (return assigned agent to pool)
Without any official word, I would shuffle and make a new draw stack of those buildings discarded by Real Estate Deal. If there were no discarded buildings then I would leave slots in Builder's Hall empty until such time that a building is discarded. However, if you leave slots empty, what would you do with the VP tokens that are supposed to go on the building in that slot?

12) Waterdeep Harbor: When you assign an agent to Waterdeep Harbor, can you choose any of the available spaces or must you choose them in order?

13) Waterdeep Harbor: When you reassign agents from Waterdeep Harbor, does that count as assigning an agent and can you complete a quest afterwards?

Advanced Buildings

14) The Palace of Waterdeep (ambassador): The rules state (page 22), "If the Palace of Waterdeep leaves play, the Ambassador also leaves play." This could cheat a player of a move by taking the Ambassador away from him. Was this what was intended?

15) The Waymoot (accumulates VP): When you use this building, what do you do with the VP tokens that you take from that building? We have been putting them in the supply.

Quest Cards

16) Recruit Lieutenant: If you complete this quest after reassigning an agent from Waterdeep Harbor, you immediately assign the lieutenant. In this case, can you assign him to Waterdeep Harbor?

Intrigue Cards

17) Accelerate Plans (return an agent from Waterdeep Harbor and then assign 2 agents): (A) Does this count as 1, 2, or 3 turns? Can you complete one, two, or three quests? (B) Furthermore, what if you do not have two agents in your pool? (C) What if you are playing this card as a reward for completing the quest Prison Break and do not have any agents assigned to Waterdeep Harbor?

18) Real Estate Deal (discards a building and puts another in play): When you play this card, what do you do with the discarded building? Is it removed from play or do you form a discard stack? For now, we have been putting it at that bottom of the draw stack so that it does not get misplaced.

19) Special Assignment (draw until you find a quest of your chosen type): What if you choose a quest type but then when you draw cards there are none of that type in the deck?

Thanks again.
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Ben
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1) Shuffle the buildings before play.

2) I usually put the control markers on the matching space on the player mat. In any case, none of these start in play so it doesn't really matter where you put them.

3) There is a rare case in the expansion where you can not assign an agent.

4) There are such possibilities in the expansions (if not the main game).

5-19) I guess you are right that not every possibility is covered, but I wouldn't worry about unanswered questions getting in the way of enjoying the game. I don't think I've seen any of the edge cases and for the rest, there is a logical solution ... e.g. If you score more than 199, write it down.

10) Yes, score the victory points and return them to the supply.

16) No, at this point you may no longer assign to Waterdeep Harbour.

17) It's one turn so only one quest.
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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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Thanks.

Can you elaborate on 9, 14, 17B and 17C?
 
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Désirée Greverud
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rainbowrose wrote:
Thanks.

Can you elaborate on 9, 14, 17B and 17C?

are these real questions or just theoretical? I have never seen a game where the supply of adventures even came close to running out
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M. B. Downey
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DragonsDream wrote:
rainbowrose wrote:
Thanks.

Can you elaborate on 9, 14, 17B and 17C?

are these real questions or just theoretical? I have never seen a game where the supply of adventures even came close to running out


With the addition of the Adventurer Caravan tokens representing five adventurers, it is essentially impossible to run out of adventurers. It was theoretically possible in the base game, but is an extreme edge case where players have to try to not spend adventurers as part of their strategy.
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M. B. Downey
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Many of these have already been answered in the forums.

Quote:
2) During setup, what do you do with
the ambassador
the lieutenant,
the building control markers,
the five 100-VP tokens, and
the remaining twelve 1-VP tokens?
For now, we put the ambassador and lieutenant on the board between the intrigue discard pile and the agents that will come out at the beginning of round five. We put building control markers in corresponding players' taverns, and put the 1-VP and 100-VP tokens in the supply with the adventures and gold tokens.


It doesn't matter where you put them, just so long as you can access them if needed. This is not a rules question, this is how you prefer to layout your table.

Quote:
3) On page 8, in the first column, under "Actions In A Turn" it says, "..., you take one or both of the following actions. 1. Assign Agent 2. Complete Quest." This suggests that on your turn you have three choices:
A Both assign an agent and complete a quest,
B Assign an agent only, or
C Complete a quest only.
However, I do not think option C was intended to be an option. I believe it was intended that very turn you must assign an agent if you can. Then, if you assign an agent, you have the option to complete a quest. Am I correct? Furthermore, what if you are forced to pass because there are no legal places for you to place an agent? Then can you still complete a quest? Moreover, for option A, do you have a choice in what order you do those two things or must you assign an agent before completing the quest?


Correct, completing a quest only is not allowed, and you must place an agent and then you have the option of completing one quest. In that order.

If you are forced to pass because you cannot play an agent, then you do not get to complete a quest.

This question was answered a bunch of times, for example here.

Quote:
5) Running Out of Stuff: You can only hire as many adventures as there are available cubes. However, what if you run out of gold tokens? Is it possible to run out of quest cards or intrigue cards? If so what do you do? There is only one 100-VP token per player. What if you score over 199 points, which we frequently do? I have also heard of people scoring over 299.
In particular, what if you run out of adventures, gold, or VP tokens when, at the start of the round, you need to fill the accumulating buildings? For example what if there or no clerics in the supply and you need to load the Spires of the Morning? Do you simply not put another cleric on that building this round? Similarly, what if there is only one fighter in the supply and you need to load Fetlock Court with two? In that case, does it get the one remaining?


If the deck runs out, discarded Quest cards are reshuffled, and played and discard intrigue cards are reshuffled. I've never seen gold run out, especially with the five gold tokens available. In theory it is possible, but it is such an edge case I wouldn't worry about it, as with most of these. Like Ben said:

xemxi wrote:
5-19) I guess you are right that not every possibility is covered, but I wouldn't worry about unanswered questions getting in the way of enjoying the game. I don't think I've seen any of the edge cases and for the rest, there is a logical solution ... e.g. If you score more than 199, write it down.


Quote:
6) Can you complete a quest when the reward cannot be fully realized? For example, what if there are fewer than six fighters in the supply when you want to complete Heal Fallen Grey Hand Soldiers that awards six fighters? Must you wait to complete that quest or can you complete it and take fewer fighters? Can you complete Prison Break, which allows you to play an intrigue card, even if you do not have an intrigue card? If you have an intrigue card, are you required to play it after completing Prison Break or is it optional. Similarly, when you complete Placate the Walking Statue or Lure Artisans of Mirabar, are you required to put a building in play or is it optional?


Yes, you can complete a quest when the reward cannot be fully realized. Despite the wording of the rulebook, completing a quest is NOT an action, so the passage about needing to be able to take all parts of an action to play it is not applicable. But the rewards are not optional if you have them available, so you must play an intrigue card and you must build a building.

Quote:
7) Assigning Agents: In Appendix 3 "Clarifications" of the expansion rulebook on page 14, it says, "If a player cannot assign an Agent because no action space is available, that player must pass, and play proceeds to the next player." Should that read, "no legal action space?" It goes on to says, "If no player can legally assign an Agent, the round ends." However, shouldn't you then proceed to reassigning agents from Waterdeep Harbor? Or, do those folks miss out on their reassignments?


Correct, it should read "no legal action space" - the designers just wrote it in plain english and did not design it as a technical document. Reassigning agents is also considered assigning agents for these purposes. So no they aren't technically skipped, but those players are also unlikely to be able to actually place their agents anywhere, unless you are running into the no resource "problem" again, or that player has the magister's orb.

Quote:
What if this lack of legal spaces comes up when reassigning agents from Waterdeep Harbor? For example, what if the player with an agent in action space 1 has no legal action space? Can I assume he is skipped and the player with an agent in space 2 goes? What if the result of that player's turn changes the state of things such that the player in action space 1 now has a legal move? Does the player in action space 1 get to go now before the player in action space 3, or after him, or not at all? What if while reassigning agents from Waterdeep Harbor, it becomes possible for an unassigned agent to be placed? Does that agent then get a turn or has he lost his chance?


Once an agent is skipped, they are skipped, even if the game board changes.

Quote:
8) Choice Order: In Appendix 3 "Clarifications" of the expansion rulebook on page 14, it says, "Some actions and card effects require one or more players to make choices. ..., each player should choose in turn. Start with the player who is taking the action or causing the choice effect, or the first player." How do you decide whether to start with the current player or with the first player? What if the first player marker has changed hands? Is the "first player" the player that currently has the first player marker or the player who had it at the beginning of the round?


What case is there where you wouldn't start with the player taking the action? I can't think of one at all.

Quote:
9) Completing Actions: In Appendix 3 "Clarifications" of the expansion rulebook on page 14, it says, "You must be able to follow all the instructions on an action space in order to take that action. This includes paying the cost of buying a Building, returning 2 Adventurers at the Three Pearls, playing an Intrigue card at Waterdeep Harbor, and so forth." The base rulebook also says on page 6 under "Adventures," If there aren't enough of a particular Adventure type in the supply to hire, you can only hire as many as are available."
Does this mean that if there is only one rogue in the supply, you cannot go to The Grinning Lion Tavern because you cannot complete the action of hiring two rogues in full? Or, can you go there and hire the one remaining rogue?
What if you can complete the entire action of an advanced building but due to an empty supply, the owner cannot receive his or her benefit?
What if you have an intrigue card but you cannot follow its instructions in full? Can you still go to Waterdeep Harbor and play that intrigue card? For example, consider Research Agreement, which states, "Take a wizard from the supply and place it in your Tavern. Each opponent can choose to give you a wizard once to score 5 VP." Can you play this intrigue card when the supply is empty of wizards?
What if taking an action will trigger a plot quest such as Bolster Griffon Cavalry, Bribe the Shipwrights or Fence goods for Duke of Darkness and the plot quest cannot be satisfied? Does that bar you from taking the action or can you take the action and forgo the bonus awarded by the plot quest?


Again, have you seen any of this come up with adventurers not being available? Are you using the Caravans?

I do know you must be able to follow an intrigue card's instructions in full.

Quote:
11) Builder's Hall: What do you do if the building stack becomes empty and you need to draw another building? I know it is extremely unlikely but possible if all of the following come out early enough in the game especially the first two.
* The Zoarstar (Building) (use space occupied by opponent)
* Recover the Magister's Orb (Plot Quest) (use space occupied by opponent once per round)
* Lure Artisans of Mirabar (Quest) (puts a building in play)
* Placate the Walking Statute (Quest) (puts a building in play)
* Research Chronomancy (Quest) (return assigned agent to pool)
* Bribe Agent (Intrigue x2) (use space occupied by opponent)
* Real Estate Deal (Intrigue x1) (discard a building and put another in play)
* Recall Agent (Intrigue x2) (return assigned agent to pool)
Without any official word, I would shuffle and make a new draw stack of those buildings discarded by Real Estate Deal. If there were no discarded buildings then I would leave slots in Builder's Hall empty until such time that a building is discarded. However, if you leave slots empty, what would you do with the VP tokens that are supposed to go on the building in that slot?


Has this ever happened to you? Make a ruling when it comes up. I'd probably reshuffle any discarded buildings.

Quote:
12) Waterdeep Harbor: When you assign an agent to Waterdeep Harbor, can you choose any of the available spaces or must you choose them in order?


In order. There are dozens of threads about this.

Quote:
13) Waterdeep Harbor: When you reassign agents from Waterdeep Harbor, does that count as assigning an agent and can you complete a quest afterwards?


Yes, also many threads about this. For example here.

Quote:
14) The Palace of Waterdeep (ambassador): The rules state (page 22), "If the Palace of Waterdeep leaves play, the Ambassador also leaves play." This could cheat a player of a move by taking the Ambassador away from him. Was this what was intended?


I would probably say yes. They took the risk of getting it, so if the building is destroyed oh well. However, I'd also be fine with them playing it the next round and then it immediately disappearing. I would encourage you to check how the app does it to check this edge case.

Quote:
17) Accelerate Plans (return an agent from Waterdeep Harbor and then assign 2 agents): (A) Does this count as 1, 2, or 3 turns? Can you complete one, two, or three quests? (B) Furthermore, what if you do not have two agents in your pool? (C) What if you are playing this card as a reward for completing the quest Prison Break and do not have any agents assigned to Waterdeep Harbor?


One turn one quest, you cannot play an intrigue card if you cannot resolve its effects.

Quote:
18) Real Estate Deal (discards a building and puts another in play): When you play this card, what do you do with the discarded building? Is it removed from play or do you form a discard stack? For now, we have been putting it at that bottom of the draw stack so that it does not get misplaced.


We toss it in the box, but your solution is fine.

Quote:
19) Special Assignment (draw until you find a quest of your chosen type): What if you choose a quest type but then when you draw cards there are none of that type in the deck?


You should have planned better. You would reshuffle the deck and keep going. Obviously if you make it through the entire deck again you do not keep reshuffling until the heat death of the universe, you just don't get a quest.
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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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DragonsDream wrote:
rainbowrose wrote:
Thanks.

Can you elaborate on 9, 14, 17B and 17C?

are these real questions or just theoretical? I have never seen a game where the supply of adventures even came close to running out


Those 4 are real questions. We have run out of fighters twice. One in a 5 player game and once in a 4 player game.
 
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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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downeymb wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
rainbowrose wrote:
Thanks.

Can you elaborate on 9, 14, 17B and 17C?

are these real questions or just theoretical? I have never seen a game where the supply of adventures even came close to running out


With the addition of the Adventurer Caravan tokens representing five adventurers, it is essentially impossible to run out of adventurers. It was theoretically possible in the base game, but is an extreme edge case where players have to try to not spend adventurers as part of their strategy.


I don't have the expansion (yet) and was only asking about the base game. The two times that we ran out of fighters, nobody was trying to make that happen. They just had a lot of fighters that they weren't ready to spend.
 
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M. B. Downey
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That is bizarre.

Well, I think the rule is applying to things you are spending, so you cannot go to Waterdeep Harbor if you have no intrigue card you can play, cannot go to the Builder's Hall if you don't have enough money to buy a building, and cannot go to advanced buildings that require you to pay money or exchange adventurers if you do not have them. You should be able to go to a location and otherwise take as many adventurers as you can.
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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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DragonsDream wrote:
rainbowrose wrote:
Thanks.

Can you elaborate on 9, 14, 17B and 17C?

are these real questions or just theoretical? I have never seen a game where the supply of adventures even came close to running out


These are real questions.

Regarding 9: We have run out of adventures twice. One in a 4 player game we ran out of fighters and once in a 5 player game we ran out of fighters again. I can go into more detail if you like.

Regarding 14: It came up. Red had played to The Palace of Waterdeep which was Blue's building and had the ambassador. Blue had Real Estate Deal but couldn't play it because his building was occupied; we knew this because he had tried to play it and was told to read the card more carefully. Red completed Research Chronomancy and was considering returning his agent from The Palace of Waterdeep. But Green pointed out that it would be a risk as if Blue played Real Estate Deal, Red would loose the ambassador. Red disagreed with the that interpretation of the rules but returned a different agent instead to be safe. That opened a spot that Blue desperately needed instead of opening up The Palace of Waterdeep which would be no good to anyone as Red already had the ambassador.

Regarding 17B: We have discussed this around in circles and are looking for a more official ruling. Currently we play that if you don't have the necessary agents in your pool then you can't play this card. So when playing at Waterdeep Harbor, you must start with at least 2, play one to Waterdeep Harbor, retrieve one from Waterdeep Harbor, and then play 2. If you can't do that, you can't play this card.

Regarding 17C: We have also discussed this around in circles. Currently, we play that you can only play this card as park of the reward for Prison Break if you have at least one agent in your pool. Then if you have an agent in Waterdeep Harbor, you follow the card in full. But if you don't have an agent in Waterdeep Harbor, then you don't retrieve an agent from Waterdeep Harbor and you only get to place 1 agent instead of 2. Still we are not all happy with that house rule and I'm looking for something more official or at least some fan conscious.
 
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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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downeymb wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
rainbowrose wrote:
Thanks.

Can you elaborate on 9, 14, 17B and 17C?

are these real questions or just theoretical? I have never seen a game where the supply of adventures even came close to running out


With the addition of the Adventurer Caravan tokens representing five adventurers, it is essentially impossible to run out of adventurers. It was theoretically possible in the base game, but is an extreme edge case where players have to try to not spend adventurers as part of their strategy.


I'm talking about the base game and not the expansion.

It has come up twice for us and no player was intentionally hoarding adventures.

If I had the expansion (which I don't), would there be a problem with only adding the caravan tokens from the expansion into the base game? What if I just bought some extra cubes? Is the rule that limits the number of cubes just an artifact of the financial decision by the publisher about how many cubes to put in the box? Or was it intended to have an effect game play, strategy, and tactics? If it is the first, then I see not reason not to supplement the game with more bits. But if it is the second then I fear I would be breaking the game in some way.
 
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rainbowrose wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
rainbowrose wrote:
Thanks.

Can you elaborate on 9, 14, 17B and 17C?

are these real questions or just theoretical? I have never seen a game where the supply of adventures even came close to running out


These are real questions.

Regarding 9: We have run out of adventures twice. One in a 4 player game we ran out of rogues and once in a 5 player game we ran out of fighters. I can go into more detail if you like.

Regarding 14: It came up. Red had played to The Palace of Waterdeep which was Blue's building and had the ambassador. Blue had Real Estate Deal but couldn't play it because his building was occupied; we knew this because he had tried to play it and was told to read the card more carefully. Red completed Research Chronomancy and was considering returning his agent from The Palace of Waterdeep. But Green pointed out that it would be a risk as if Blue played Real Estate Deal, Red would loose the ambassador. Red disagreed with the that interpretation of the rules but returned a different agent instead to be safe. That opened a spot that Blue desperately needed instead of opening up The Palace of Waterdeep which would be no good to anyone as Red already had the ambassador.

Regarding 17B: We have discussed this around in circles and are looking for a more official ruling. Currently we play that if you don't have the necessary agents in your pool then you can't play this card. So when playing at Waterdeep Harbor, you must start with at least 2, play one to Waterdeep Harbor, retrieve one from Waterdeep Harbor, and then play 2. If you can't do that, you can't play this card.

Regarding 17C: We have also discussed this around in circles. Currently, we play that you can only play this card as park of the reward for Prison Break if you have at least one agent in your pool. Then if you have an agent in Waterdeep Harbor, you follow the card in full. But if you don't have an agent in Waterdeep Harbor, then you don't retrieve an agent from Waterdeep Harbor and you only get to place 1 agent instead of 2. Still we are not all happy with that house rule and I'm looking for something more official or at least some fan conscious.


I agree with your interpretation of 17b, that is the right way to play it.
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rainbowrose wrote:
downeymb wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
rainbowrose wrote:
Thanks.

Can you elaborate on 9, 14, 17B and 17C?

are these real questions or just theoretical? I have never seen a game where the supply of adventures even came close to running out


With the addition of the Adventurer Caravan tokens representing five adventurers, it is essentially impossible to run out of adventurers. It was theoretically possible in the base game, but is an extreme edge case where players have to try to not spend adventurers as part of their strategy.


I'm talking about the base game and not the expansion.

It has come up twice for us and no player was intentionally hoarding adventures.

If I had the expansion (which I don't), would there be a problem with only adding the caravan tokens from the expansion into the base game? What if I just bought some extra cubes? Is the rule that limits the number of cubes just an artifact of the financial decision by the publisher about how many cubes to put in the box? Or was it intended to have an effect game play, strategy, and tactics? If it is the first, then I see not reason not to supplement the game with more bits. But if it is the second then I fear I would be breaking the game in some way.


I don't think it would be breaking the game at all. But I also have never run out of adventurers.
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downeymb wrote:
Quote:
8) Choice Order: In Appendix 3 "Clarifications" of the expansion rulebook on page 14, it says, "Some actions and card effects require one or more players to make choices. ..., each player should choose in turn. Start with the player who is taking the action or causing the choice effect, or the first player." How do you decide whether to start with the current player or with the first player? What if the first player marker has changed hands? Is the "first player" the player that currently has the first player marker or the player who had it at the beginning of the round?


What case is there where you wouldn't start with the player taking the action? I can't think of one at all.


It gives two options and uses the word 'or' so I'm asking how do I choose between the two options? In every single situation I can think of, both options would be available. I can't think of a single one where one or the other options would not be available. But how to choose between them?

Lacking further information, I'd go with beginning with the current player.

You have been very helpful. Thanks. I'm still wading through your answers.

 
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downeymb wrote:
Quote:
12) Waterdeep Harbor: When you assign an agent to Waterdeep Harbor, can you choose any of the available spaces or must you choose them in order?


In order. There are dozens of threads about this.


Hmmm, that is what I thought too but there came up a case where my girlfriend wanted to go in space 2 even though space 1 was empty. She wanted to do this because she wanted to have two turns in a row and if she went in space 1, somebody else would go in space 2. But by going in space 2, if she got another chance to place in Waterdeep Harbor she would get two turns in a row.

And I can't find any rule that disallows it. The rule book says on page 8, "To assign an Agent, place it on any unoccupied action space ...." Space 2 was unoccupied so she saw no reason why she couldn't go there.

The other building that has more than one action space is Cliffwatch Inn. The rule book says about that building on page 9, "You can choose any of the available action spaces when you assign an Agent to Clifwatch Inn." But it is silent on this issue for Waterdeep Harbor.

I've got to find the thread you are talking about.
 
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rainbowrose wrote:
downeymb wrote:
Quote:
12) Waterdeep Harbor: When you assign an agent to Waterdeep Harbor, can you choose any of the available spaces or must you choose them in order?


In order. There are dozens of threads about this.


Hmmm, that is what I thought too but there came up a case where my girlfriend wanted to go in space 2 even though space 1 was empty. She wanted to do this because she wanted to have two turns in a row and if she went in space 1, somebody else would go in space 2. But by going in space 2, if she got another chance to place in Waterdeep Harbor she would get two turns in a row.

And I can't find any rule that disallows it. The rule book says on page 8, "To assign an Agent, place it on any unoccupied action space ...." Space 2 was unoccupied so she saw no reason why she couldn't go there.

The other building that has more than one action space is Cliffwatch Inn. The rule book says about that building on page 9, "You can choose any of the available action spaces when you assign an Agent to Clifwatch Inn." But it is silent on this issue for Waterdeep Harbor.

I've got to find the thread you are talking about.


The app does not let you do this
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rainbowrose wrote:
downeymb wrote:
Quote:
8) Choice Order: In Appendix 3 "Clarifications" of the expansion rulebook on page 14, it says, "Some actions and card effects require one or more players to make choices. ..., each player should choose in turn. Start with the player who is taking the action or causing the choice effect, or the first player." How do you decide whether to start with the current player or with the first player? What if the first player marker has changed hands? Is the "first player" the player that currently has the first player marker or the player who had it at the beginning of the round?


What case is there where you wouldn't start with the player taking the action? I can't think of one at all.


It gives two options and uses the word 'or' so I'm asking how do I choose between the two options? In every single situation I can think of, both options would be available. I can't think of a single one where one or the other options would not be available. But how to choose between them?

Did a player take an action that requires everyone to make a choice? If yes, that player chooses first. If no, the first player chooses first. A case you may not have considered is the start of a new round, when one or more players may need to make a choice due to a game effect. No action was taken, and therefore player order dictates the order in which choice is made.

I really feel like you are overthinking this game. Just place some workers and have fun.
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esswhy wrote:
rainbowrose wrote:
downeymb wrote:
Quote:
12) Waterdeep Harbor: When you assign an agent to Waterdeep Harbor, can you choose any of the available spaces or must you choose them in order?


In order. There are dozens of threads about this.


Hmmm, that is what I thought too but there came up a case where my girlfriend wanted to go in space 2 even though space 1 was empty. She wanted to do this because she wanted to have two turns in a row and if she went in space 1, somebody else would go in space 2. But by going in space 2, if she got another chance to place in Waterdeep Harbor she would get two turns in a row.

And I can't find any rule that disallows it. The rule book says on page 8, "To assign an Agent, place it on any unoccupied action space ...." Space 2 was unoccupied so she saw no reason why she couldn't go there.

The other building that has more than one action space is Cliffwatch Inn. The rule book says about that building on page 9, "You can choose any of the available action spaces when you assign an Agent to Clifwatch Inn." But it is silent on this issue for Waterdeep Harbor.

I've got to find the thread you are talking about.


The app does not let you do this


I'm aware of why you might want to do this.

The conversation spans multiple threads with people arguing about the wording of what was or was not included and comparing it to the inn. Ultimately I consider it settled with the designer's rules explanation video, as I indicated here.
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xemxi wrote:
rainbowrose wrote:
downeymb wrote:
Quote:
8) Choice Order: In Appendix 3 "Clarifications" of the expansion rulebook on page 14, it says, "Some actions and card effects require one or more players to make choices. ..., each player should choose in turn. Start with the player who is taking the action or causing the choice effect, or the first player." How do you decide whether to start with the current player or with the first player? What if the first player marker has changed hands? Is the "first player" the player that currently has the first player marker or the player who had it at the beginning of the round?


What case is there where you wouldn't start with the player taking the action? I can't think of one at all.


It gives two options and uses the word 'or' so I'm asking how do I choose between the two options? In every single situation I can think of, both options would be available. I can't think of a single one where one or the other options would not be available. But how to choose between them?

Did a player take an action that requires everyone to make a choice? If yes, that player chooses first. If no, the first player chooses first. A case you may not have considered is the start of a new round, when one or more players may need to make a choice due to a game effect. No action was taken, and therefore player order dictates the order in which choice is made.


Yes, from plot quests that give you benefits, that is when the first player would apply. And since it is at the beginning of the round, there is no difference between who has the first player marker and who is the first player. All other times are the current player. Good catch!
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xemxi wrote:
]Did a player take an action that requires everyone to make a choice? If yes, that player chooses first. If no, the first player chooses first. A case you may not have considered is the start of a new round, when one or more players may need to make a choice due to a game effect. No action was taken, and therefore player order dictates the order in which choice is made.

I really feel like you are overthinking this game. Just place some workers and have fun.


You have a good point but the only thing I can think of that causes a choice when there is no current player is the Plot Quest Defend the Tower of Luck. There is not need to take turns. Still good to know for use with possible expansions.
 
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downeymb wrote:
rainbowrose wrote:
downeymb wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
rainbowrose wrote:
Thanks.

Can you elaborate on 9, 14, 17B and 17C?

are these real questions or just theoretical? I have never seen a game where the supply of adventures even came close to running out


With the addition of the Adventurer Caravan tokens representing five adventurers, it is essentially impossible to run out of adventurers. It was theoretically possible in the base game, but is an extreme edge case where players have to try to not spend adventurers as part of their strategy.


I'm talking about the base game and not the expansion.

It has come up twice for us and no player was intentionally hoarding adventures.

If I had the expansion (which I don't), would there be a problem with only adding the caravan tokens from the expansion into the base game? What if I just bought some extra cubes? Is the rule that limits the number of cubes just an artifact of the financial decision by the publisher about how many cubes to put in the box? Or was it intended to have an effect game play, strategy, and tactics? If it is the first, then I see not reason not to supplement the game with more bits. But if it is the second then I fear I would be breaking the game in some way.


I don't think it would be breaking the game at all. But I also have never run out of adventurers.


I have run out of adventurers before, base game only, and I am pretty sure it is always the fighters. It seems there are more quests that require fighters more than other cube types, though I have not actually counted everything out to verify this. Still, I know you need 9 fighters for the 25 VP Warfare quest, the Recruit Lieutenant quest needs 5, a number of quests need 4, etc. In a five player game, it's rather easy to run out of them.

As such, I consider it an available tactic to deprive the pool of adventurers. It's not a winning tactic, in my experience, as stocking up on adventurer cubes that you don't need is ultimately wasting your turns instead of going for things you DO need and using them to make VP. Will it break the game to add more? No, I don't think so, but I do feel since they explicitly state in the rules that the adventurer pool is limited, that this was a conscious decision that could have an effect on the game.
 
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