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Subject: Azul vs Torres rss

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I'm looking for another Kiesling 2-4 game.

Which is better and why?

I know Azul gets all the hype now because it's new but Torres is an old classic that recently got a reprint.




 
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Tomello Visello
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-xXx- wrote:
I'm looking for another Kiesling 2-4 game.

Which is better and why?

I know Azul gets all the hype now because it's new but Torres is an old classic that recently got a reprint.

I would never have thought to put them head-to-head. I suggest you need contemplate more about what you're really trying to achieve. Azul is more approachable, but apart from that the question almost seems to me like asking which box shape will fit better on your shelf. How can the rest of us tell ?

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Both games are abstract, tile placement, 2-4P, light on rules, made by the same designer.
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Kevin D.
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I think Azul wins out on component quality and approachability to new players but Torres probably feels more varied from game to game with the round scoring goals (I've only played it once a while ago but that s what I remember).

I own Azul because it is lighter and quicker, I would generally rather play something like Ginkgopolis or Fresh Fish in the same weight class as Torres (for me, I didn't actually compare weights just now).
 
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David op De Beeck
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I recently played Torres for the first time (played it twice, once at 2p and once at 3p, loved it) and I've played azul many times this year (I think I have about 27 playes logged since I bought it a few months ago).

I think Azul is a game you can play with just about anyone or any group and they will probably enjoy it, it's very easy and quick to explain and relativly short. A great filler.
Torres is not a filler although I got the feeling from my limited plays that you can play it in about an hour and it's pretty rules light. Still it's a more serious, somewhat heavier puzzle and it's a quiet game where you need to focus (simular in that regard to chess). The light nature of Azul allows for more conversation at the table. Not saying Azul is easy, but different for sure. Also while I personally really love Torres I'm pretty sure it won't appeal to many gamers that just don't like heavy abstract puzzles but will play Azul.

I prefer Torres but I'm certain it will never get as many plays as Azul, not even close.
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Maarten D. de Jong
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What do you mean with 'better'? What do you want 'better' to mean in this particular comparison?
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Tomello Visello
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-xXx- wrote:
Both games are abstract, tile placement, 2-4P, light on rules, made by the same designer.

If you trust BGG there are significant differences in classification and weight.


Azul: abstract, Family 1.85

Torres: abstract, strategy 2.88


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Dodb66 wrote:
I think Azul is a game you can play with just about anyone or any group and they will probably enjoy it, it's very easy and quick to explain and relativly short. A great filler.


But does it stay fun? Simple and short games, aka fillers, usually don't hold up their value for long.

What did convince you to play it 27x ?
 
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cymric wrote:
What do you mean with 'better'? What do you want 'better' to mean in this particular comparison?


For the iliterate, definition of better:

More desirable, satisfactory, attractive, favorable, or commendable...




Why do YOU think one is better than the other?

Show yourself some arguments.



 
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Tomello Visello
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-xXx- wrote:
cymric wrote:
What do you mean with 'better'? What do you want 'better' to mean in this particular comparison?


For the iliterate, definition of better: :D

More desirable, satisfactory, attractive, favorable, or commendable...




Why do YOU think one is better than the other?

Show yourself some arguments.

I'm still with cymric here. Better at what. To accomplish what purpose ?

Multiple attributes are at play here. You do not have a well defined goal. Or else, just take the one with a higher Rating.


(Azul has the more convenient box - get that one)
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Maarten D. de Jong
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-xXx- wrote:
Why do YOU think one is better than the other? Show yourself some arguments.

So you want the opinion of random nobodies? Surely there are dozens of comments and reviews which do that already?

FWIW, I think the weak points in both games cast a fairly extensive shadow on the game's good points. Azul has very strong left-right binding which translates into often making moves not because they bring you points but in order to prevent the player after you from acquiring too many. Torres has that too, but to a lesser extent plus that it is much more obfuscated. Thus Torres has a stronger 'seeing good moves' component to it than does Azul. But make no mistake: both games ruthlessly punish making bad moves in that once you fall behind there really is little to be done to come back. Azul here has the advantage of being quick so that this situation doesn't last unnecessarily long.

Artwise Azul is much more attractive and more easily picked up by non-abstract players. Torres is dull and business-wise, and requires quite a bit of spatial reasoning to be played. This is not liked as much as pattern building with pleasantly 'clacking' tiles.

Given the choice between these two titles I would decline both and go play or do something else entirely. (If forced, I'd probably select Azul as it is shorter.) In Torres' case I would opt for a game from the Mask trilogy which offer a much better embedded action point system (meaning that the action points serve a greater, more encompassing whole instead of being the main course); in Azul's case I would play a different game of tile laying or pattern matching with less pronounced left-right binding. I don't have any examples of these at hand, I'm afraid.
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TVis wrote:
[q="-xXx-"][q="cymric"] Better at what. To accomplish what purpose ?

Multiple attributes are at play here. You do not have a well defined goal.


Dude, to have fun of course. Why else do you play games.

You need "a well defined goal" in order to play a certain game?

Quote:

In Torres' case I would opt for a game from the Mask trilogy which offer a much better embedded action point system


I have Tikal and like it because it plays well with non-gamers and gamers alike. Medium light, fits everybody.
 
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David op De Beeck
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-xXx- wrote:
Dodb66 wrote:
I think Azul is a game you can play with just about anyone or any group and they will probably enjoy it, it's very easy and quick to explain and relativly short. A great filler.


But does it stay fun? Simple and short games, aka fillers, usually don't hold up their value for long.

What did convince you to play it 27x ?


O yes after 27 plays I still enjoy it just as much as after my first play, When suggested I will play it and I often suggest it myself at the end of a gaming session as a last game. It's short but challenging so I enjoy it. I think Azul and For Sale are my 2 go to games either as last game of the evening or just as a quick game whenever there is time and opportunity.




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David op De Beeck
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cymric wrote:
-xXx- wrote:
Why do YOU think one is better than the other? Show yourself some arguments.

So you want the opinion of random nobodies? Surely there are dozens of comments and reviews which do that already?

FWIW, I think the weak points in both games cast a fairly extensive shadow on the game's good points. Azul has very strong left-right binding which translates into often making moves not because they bring you points but in order to prevent the player after you from acquiring too many. Torres has that too, but to a lesser extent plus that it is much more obfuscated. Thus Torres has a stronger 'seeing good moves' component to it than does Azul. But make no mistake: both games ruthlessly punish making bad moves in that once you fall behind there really is little to be done to come back. Azul here has the advantage of being quick so that this situation doesn't last unnecessarily long.

Artwise Azul is much more attractive and more easily picked up by non-abstract players. Torres is dull and business-wise, and requires quite a bit of spatial reasoning to be played. This is not liked as much as pattern building with pleasantly 'clacking' tiles.

Given the choice between these two titles I would decline both and go play or do something else entirely. (If forced, I'd probably select Azul as it is shorter.) In Torres' case I would opt for a game from the Mask trilogy which offer a much better embedded action point system (meaning that the action points serve a greater, more encompassing whole instead of being the main course); in Azul's case I would play a different game of tile laying or pattern matching with less pronounced left-right binding. I don't have any examples of these at hand, I'm afraid.


Insightful review, thx for sharing! I agree that both games are cutthroat in nature, something I enjoy a lot, it's a good fight. I did play a 4player game of Azul once where 1 player didn't care at all what the player next in play order was doing giving that player a huge advantage over the rest of us as all 3 other players where very competitive players taking hurting the next player into concideration just as much as advancing his or her own board. In a 2 player game that is less of an issue unless the other player is far less competitive then you are and gets frustrated.
In Torres this was far less unbalanced, in my 3 player game, when given the choice of helping one player or the other you can just pick the one in last place. But sure, the issue is still there. A weaker player can unwittingly give an advantage to the next person in play order as with most multiplayer games.

I played Java back when it was released (still own it), I liked it a lot but not many people I knew did so it didn't get played much. Now after playing Torres I do think I enjoy Torres more then Java but Torres is still new to me so I can't be sure in the long run.


 
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Tomello Visello
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-xXx- wrote:
Medium light, fits everybody.
Then wouldn't a simple cursory investigation of BGG resources already have guided you to pick Azul ?


 
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TVis wrote:
-xXx- wrote:
Medium light, fits everybody.
Then wouldn't a simple cursory investigation of BGG resources already have guided you to pick Azul ?h




No. Torres is mid light too.
 
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I would rather play Torres. It's more interesting and the decisions are (I feel) tougher than what you get with Azul.

But Azul is both quicker and easier to teach.

Better is subjective. Which is a better choice for you probably depends on the group you intend to play with.
 
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Alison Mandible
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-xXx- wrote:
No. Torres is mid light too.

It's not, regardless of what BGG says.

Or, at any rate, it's substantially heavier than Azul. Maybe they're both "mid-light", but they are at opposite ends of that category if so.
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-xXx- wrote:
Which is better and why?

I know Azul gets all the hype now because it's new but Torres is an old classic that recently got a reprint.
I haven't played either, so far, but FWIW I'd be more interested in giving Torres a try than Azul.
 
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Sam R
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I’d agree that Azul is lighter than totes but I wouldn’t compare Azul to other light games. To me Azul is a light game that feels like a full fledged game experience. I’ve played it a good 15 times or more now and it is just as enjoyable as the first time I played it every time. In fact, I would say it get a little better with each play. Azul holds up, there’s no doubt about it. Plus it comes with a slightly more difficult variant way to play that really kicks it up for me.

Torres on the other hand is definitely more thinky and more methodical. A little heavier than Azul but even then, I wouldn’t say it so complicated that people couldn’t get into it. The variable scoring really keeps it alive for many plays. I feel the learning curve is a little higher than Azul. It’ll take you a couple more plays of Torres to fully see the beauty of its design and strategies, whereasto with Azul by the second play (maybe even the first) it already sticks out.

I guess it would depend on who you’re going to be playing with. Azul is definitely friendly enough to bring out with just about anyone, Torres on the other hand you gotta have play it with people that enjoy a good challenging puzzle and thinky gameplay.

Honestly though, both games are awesome. I think you’d be doing yourself a disservice by only getting one of them.
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Dani Evans
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I prefer Torres and feel it's the deeper, more satisfying game. Azul is much easier to get to the table though - it looks and sounds great and new players will feel like they're doing things (or at least stopping others from doing things). In Torres, a bad early decision or two and you'll be forever chasing the other players.

So I'd say you'll probably get more milage out of Azul.
 
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David B
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-xXx- wrote:
cymric wrote:
What do you mean with 'better'? What do you want 'better' to mean in this particular comparison?


For the iliterate, definition of better:

More desirable, satisfactory, attractive, favorable, or commendable...






For the obnoxious:

definition of "Social graces" : skills used to interact politely in social situations. They include manners, etiquette (the specifically accepted rules within a culture for the application of universal manners), deportment, fashion and refinement (also known as sophistication).
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Sam R
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pfctsqr wrote:
-xXx- wrote:
cymric wrote:
What do you mean with 'better'? What do you want 'better' to mean in this particular comparison?


For the iliterate, definition of better:

More desirable, satisfactory, attractive, favorable, or commendable...






For the obnoxious:

definition of "Social graces" : skills used to interact politely in social situations. They include manners, etiquette (the specifically accepted rules within a culture for the application of universal manners), deportment, fashion and refinement (also known as sophistication).


Hmm, I didn’t know that copy and pasting the dictionary was so widespread. I should start doing it.
 
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