Robert Wagner
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Hi gents,

On the fence for this one, so downloaded the rules.
Very impressed with the 50 scenarios, maps and units in game.

But I find no influence/modifier for flanking/rear shots on tank platoons which strikes me as odd...shake

Any thoughts? I do realize that I am dealing with platoon, not individual tanks. But still, even using the crossfire rule make me wonder.

Cheers, robert.
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Tom Oxley
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I believe the armor value is an average for the whole vehicle, not just a frontal armor value, so when viewed that way, it never occurred to me to question not having a modifier or lower values for side or rear. We see a platoon counter where the vehicles are facing in ways we can't see, so there really is no rear or side to the counter. The crossfire modifier means that the platoon has deployed facing the initial threat, so the second firing element is getting a shot at thinner armor. Also, with 15minute turns, the tanks in the platoon can deploy and redeploy inside the hex any number of times to face changing threats. This is more an educated guess than anything else, but the designer has spent a lot of time in making up developer notes on the website for these games. You might also check in at PG-HQ, the Panzer Grenadier fan forum. Some of the game designers are there as well and can share more specific information on this. http://pg-hq.com/
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Robert Wagner
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Thanks for the quick reply Tom,

I can wrap my head around that...

Also, will do some digging in the forum you suggested.

Cheers, Robert.
 
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Peter Lloyd
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As I understand it, the armor value is frontal armor rating overall. We a tank unit is fired upon, the tanks are assumed to turn and face the attacker. The crossfire rule assumes flank fire after the unit has turned to face the enemy.

OP fire on the flank and non-turreted vehicles are concepts that miscreants, like me, write house-rules for.
 
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Robert Wagner
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Hello Peter,

Had to look up "miscreants", and found that that might also apply to me...

Hard to decide between AH´s "IDF" or this one.

IDF is offcourse a different scale, offers a zoomed in view.

This one a battle on a grander scale. Get them both I hear?gulp
 
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Robert Wagner
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Ah.. one more thing: I will be playing solo only.

The box says it is solo friendly, any comments?

Thanks, Robert.
 
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Tom Oxley
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I've played over a thousand games of the different Panzer Grenadier games and expansions, all but 2 solo. No real problem, just play each side to the best of your ability. The dice make up for any bias. Also, at least for me, the smaller scenarios are easiest to play solo. Try the smaller ones and then move on to the larger ones as you get to know the system.
 
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Peter Lloyd
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I view game scales as progressing from fight to battle to campaign to war. IDF is more of a fight, Panzer Grenadier (all 3 lines) are more in the battle sphere. That said, get what you like. IDF is a more developed version of MBT, but I don't know anything beyond that.

The game does work, not sure I would say friendly, but it does work. I don't really like solo play, FtF and Vassal are my preferred methods. That said, the only issue I have had with solo play in PG has been keeping separate battle plans straight. The interactive nature of the turns makes cause a little confusion. Tom however, has played solo a lot, so it not an insurmountable problem.
 
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Russell InGA
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To tie together a couple of comments in the thread:

The "crossfire bonus" is the flanking fire bonus. This rule assumes that whatever the first fire a tank receives is where its frontal armor is pointed. At that point other units that are "flanking" qualify for the crossfire modifier.

The crossfire rule in my estimation is "sleezeable". IIRC, you fire some anti-tank rifle at a "real tank" and then that would fix the facing of the tank for your real AT weapons (from a different arc) to fire with the bonus.

I kind of tend toward the idea of having fixed facing for armored vehicles.

To avoid having to establish facing, I would probably let someone declare in the above situation that the ATR is given the crossfire bonus.
 
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Peter Lloyd
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rules_heretic wrote:
The "crossfire bonus" is the flanking fire bonus. This rule assumes that whatever the first fire a tank receives is where its frontal armor is pointed. At that point other units that are "flanking" qualify for the crossfire modifier.


rules_heretic wrote:
The crossfire rule in my estimation is "sleezeable". IIRC, you fire some anti-tank rifle at a "real tank" and then that would fix the facing of the tank for your real AT weapons (from a different arc) to fire with the bonus.

It has been discussed. One could also consider it a coordinated ambush, schwerpunkt tactics, ect.

rules_heretic wrote:
I kind of tend toward the idea of having fixed facing for armored vehicles.

That is the difference between fight thinking and battle thinking. In a "battle' type game, one assumes that the sub-commanders basically know how to do their jobs. I only assume facing in a particular direction while moving, but that is my house rule.

rules_heretic wrote:
To avoid having to establish facing, I would probably let someone declare in the above situation that the ATR is given the crossfire bonus.

That would be your house rule. It does assume that the unit (not tank) knows they are soon to be attacked from another direction by a bigger gun.
 
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Robert Wagner
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The die is cast, the game is ordered...

Thanks for all your input guys!
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